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Old December 4, 2012, 06:11 PM   #26
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,746
Originally Posted by Old Grump
Besides without knowing where the 50% number came from I bet it was referring to fight stopper, not kills.
Yes, those are Marshall & Sanow's OSS numbers I posted. Its just below 50% by there formula for the 158 grain LRN. I'm on record as being skeptical of their methodology.

I do see many people reference their works on here though and they seem to support their work. Especially when it comes to the .357 Magnum and the 1400+ fps 125 grain JHP. So I used their figures too, just to add to my point. As others here on TFL have pointed out in the past, its generally agreed, that regardless of the validity of their statistical work, many cartridges from M&S's list, match with the gel testing, autopsy reports, FBI studies and all the rest.

The example I gave of the .357 is one of those that match with other schools of thought. The .38 Special 158 grain LRN, is generally seen as a marginal to poor performer. M&S rates it as being one shot effective, a little less than half the time. Compared to 96% for the .357 125 grain JHP and 96% for the .45 ACP 230 grain JHP, 47%-49% is not so great.

Originally Posted by Space Coast
Old Grump -

No disrespect intended at all, but that chart doesn't impart much useful information (as is the case with a lot of statistics). A naive person looking at it would conclude that a .22 is better than average and more effective than a .44mag at causing a fatality.
Yeah, that fatality chart tells us nothing about stopping effectiveness.

Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve
Hey Nate45, that Nosler bullet looks a little light on the crimp.
It does. I believe thats a factory Winchester Partition Gold though. I didn't take that picture, either. I'm almost 100% certain I'm right though. The bullet was said to have been recovered from a water test. Water isn't good a telling us about penetration, but it usually shows a great likeness of expansion in flesh and bone.
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