Thread: Snubby load?
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Old November 26, 2012, 08:02 AM   #48
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Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
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I would agree that a standard wadcutter out of an abbreviated barrel is a poor choice, but stating that it will"only" make the person angry is a bit of hyperbole.

The word hyperbole means exaggeration.
To state that shooting someone with a .38 wadcutter will "only" make them mad or angry is just silly. As I stated, I agree with you that it is a poor choice. If I taunted an aggressor about his fat mother THAT would only make him angry at best or "only". There would be no other possible effect of the action. Your experience can be whatever it is, but to make a blanket statement about all other possible shootings with the round from here to judgement day based on some belief that your personal experiences will generalize to all others does not wash. Do you have some thought that no shootings with the round in question has ever stopped an attack or resulted in quick or immediate incapacitation? Again, it is a poor choice especially from a snubby. It will however punch a .357 hole in someone deep enough to hit vitals.

The one and only shooting with a .38 Special wadcutter in which I knew the shooter personally resulted in one dead home invader in New Mexico with one center punch in 1979. I suppose I could state with some truthfulness that in my experience the .38 wadcutter is a one shot stopper 100% of the time, but I think it would be somewhat of an over statement don't you agree?

Bullets do weird things. Certainly some are much more effective at incapacitating an attacker than others all other things being equal. None of them are to utterly ineffective that the only across the board result from a hit will be an elevated anger level.
Ok, so I overstated the uselessness of the 38 wadcutter in my experience that is just my contempt for the round for use in self defense from a violent felon coming thru. I did not say that the wounds were not ultimately lethal for those that chose to not seek medical attention. Some people were less than impressed initially largely due to adrenaline and sought out medical attention later.

Am I correct in my understanding that the people you referenced (inner city whatevers) were using light weight target hand loads for self defense?
That is a fact. The local pawn shop sold individual bullets for $2 each (in the 80's), that way the local thugs could top off.

a. S&W mod. 60, 2 inch barrel - 868 fps (251 ft. lbs.)
b. S&W mod. 66, 2.5 inch barrel - 890 fps (264 ft. lbs.)
c. Ruger SP101, 3 inch barrel - 961 fps (308 ft. lbs.)
d. S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch barrel - 1005 fps (336 ft. lbs.)

I'm debating - believe Buffalo Bore or believe......
Jim Cirrillo’s “safe stop” was the same idea. I spoke with him at FLETC when he was an instructor there, and we did not agree about it then either. He used the WC because it was that or LRN. I used WC’s in my Marlin carbine and they worked VERY well on skunks, my guess is they were moving out around 1000 FPS, which is where I would like to see them from a handgun.

Lost Creditability

Nanuck, you just lost more creds. I remember how small my m-14 felt in a morter attack on our base in Vietnam. Another thing came to mind. One day a convoy was being stalked by a tiger (that's a great big cat with black and yellow stripes) . The guy on top of the of the apc opened up with a 50 callber machine gun. This really poed (made him mad) the tiger. Ole tige attacked the APC and was finished by multiple rifle and pistol rpunds. So you're right too small of a defensive weapon can just make an assailant mad. This is probabbly why the Bradley fighting vehicle has a 20 mm.
One of my buddies was a Ranger in Vietnam and had a squad member eaten by a 900 lb tiger, Yes I know what they are. And the relevance to the discussion is what? Unless you are faced with something like this on an afternoon stroll.

Every handgun is a compromise. What I have seen and experienced leads me to carry the most gun I can conceal and shoot well. That currently happens to be a Glock 31C in the cooler months and a Glock 27/33 in the warmer months. Using the weakest round in a marginal SD caliber, in a platform that almost defies accurate shot placement by all but the most adept sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. A snubbie is an expert’s gun; IMHO it does not belong in the hands of a novice.

What round works in one situation may not work in another, no two shootings are alike. If you are starting out with 200 or so FPE your margin for error or deviation is NIL. If you start out with 600-700 FPE you have a lot more to work with. Work requires energy. A 38 WC at 700 FPS is not cutting thru bone. I have seen my friend shot, it hit his pelvis and stopped. I have seen them bounce of ribs, break ribs and get stuck in the intercostal muscles, punch into the abdomen. A friend of mine shot a BG thru the heart with a 45 ACP gold dot, it punched a ¾” hole thru his heart, he was stone cold dead, and ran 3 blocks. Of all the gunshot wounds I have seen and treated (first aid) 38 special wounds were minor in comparison and a far cry from a hit by a 357 Magnum at 400-500 more FPS.
I love 357 magnum’s, it is just that my 3” model 13 is no longer in production, so replacing it would be difficult. My 640 PRO is my BUG. The Glock is smaller, lighter and carries 3 times the ammo and with Underwood GD’s I lose nothing in the power arena.
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
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