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Old November 23, 2012, 01:00 AM   #16
Frank Ettin
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 8,758
Originally Posted by MLeake
...But saying that possession of the firearm is necessarily a crime, and that possession of a permit is an affirmative defense? Seriously?...
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
...If the law doesn't apply to me, then there is no underlying "crime" for which I can/should/must raise any affirmative defense. I have a permit; carrying a concealed firearm is not a crime for me. Period.
So how is this supposed to work? If the cop doesn't know who you are, or if you don't show him your permit, he has absolutely no way of knowing whether or not you have a permit, so he has absolutely no way of knowing whether or not you are committing a crime.

He does, however, have a reasonably articulable suspicion that you may be committing a crime because (1) he has reason to believe you are carrying a gun; and (2) he has no reason to believe that you have a permit.

Sorry, but that's how a court is most likely to see things in the real world. I know it irks you, but the alternative is that an LEO is effectively powerless to investigate the possibility that someone maybe carrying a gun illegally.
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
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