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Old July 27, 2012, 01:25 AM   #124
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 5,685
Our Bill of Rights are not statutes! They are GOD GIVEN RIGHTS.
Well, I still don't think I've gone wrong on that. I would submit that this is a personal belief not a fact.

The fact is the Bill of Rights is a document agreed upon and used to structure a set of social values within particular society. It was written by men for Man, within the USA.

Guns are of course not the end of all crime, but absence of guns is the guarantee that the weak, old and otherwise not as fit make great targets since you have a virtual guarantee that in these places the law abiding citizens do not have guns...
True enough (assuming the fit, healthy criminal isn't equally armed) but that was not the point your post was making.

You spoke of societies and their lack of guns and what happens there. You then citied how the UK has high crime in its cities. That makes a clear association which I feel is flawed, hence my response.

Mentioning crime rates is pointless unless the places being compared are identical or nearly so in every other way leaving gun ownership as the only sizeable variable.

Guns are clearly not a deterrent to criminals prior to their being faced with one. Some societies have no guns yet very low crime. Others have them, yet crime is rife.

The only connection between those two social metrics is on the possible outcomes of a percentage of those crimes. The gun may keep you alive, or may let you hold on to your wallet.

Emotional pleas sell gun control, few if any facts back gun control...
Emotions sell guns (and pro-gun policies) just as effectively. Sometimes it is for pleasure, sometimes reassurance, sometimes fear.
Colorado sales are up 43%, despite the likely repeat of that atrocity being very, very small.

Now, I know that we've debated points before, BGutzman, and that it got me in trouble (I spent 3 hours posting and hadn't hoovered as I'd promised!!), but I'd like to reiterate that I don't think we have hugely different views, on the whole. I don't like the extent of the UK's gun policies, I enjoy shooting and I'd rather have my guns than not.

Here, I only dispute some of the perceived assertions in that post...
When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Karma. Another word for revolver: because what goes around, comes around!
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