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Old April 2, 2012, 09:26 AM   #1
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Join Date: December 19, 2005
Location: virtual internet world with a Daisy Red Ryder, LOL
Posts: 682
-1 problem buyer Mr. Jim Alves of Westfall, Oregon

Mr. Jim Alves of Westfall, Oregon put out a WTB(Want To Buy) ad on Sturmgewehr for Surefire forend for Mossberg 500.

I told him that I had XLNT condition one on my Mossberg 500.

He told me that he wanted to buy it via PayPal so I sold him a 95%-99% (XLNT) condition Surefire/Laser Product unit H22 which I originally got from a Surefire dealer in a Surefire box.

When he got it, he claimed that the forend was:

1. not for Mossberg
2. then claimed it did not fit Mossberg 500/590A1
3. then claimed it was not SureFire product because it said "H22" and "Laser Product" (old name for SureFire) on the unit
4. then claimed that it was ONLY for short barreled NFA Mossberg shotgun

I told him that it fitted my 18inch Mossberg 500 perfectly and offered the guy to:

1. contact Surefire and find out why it did not fit his Mossberg.
2. offered to refund him after he returned the Surefire unit, except
for PayPal fees(he paid via PayPal) and shipping.
3. offered the refund in USPS MO with tracking on receipt of the returned item.

I also explained to the guy with the following graphic that Mossberg 500/590 slide/tube/forend came in 2 different dimension(6 1/2" slide and 7 5/8" slide) but he insisted that it was not for Mossberg, that he own many, many Mossberg 500/590/etc. and he had being working with guns for 30 years or longer.

Then he claimed that the forend was for 14inch NFA/SBS Mossberg.

Then he claimed that I engaged in fraud because the forend unit stated "H22/Laser Product" (Mossberg 500 model, old name for SureFire) and that he'll file PayPal protection/claim for fraud unless I did the following:

1. refund the entire PayPal payment, including S&H and PayPal fees
2. allow him to keep the SureFire unit until I COMPLETELY REFUNDED HIM the shipping fee and PayPal fees.

What do you think?

BTW, I've already contacted PayPal. PayPal service rep stated that I'm under no obligation to refund PayPal fees or S&H cost.

They also said that I'm under no obligation to issue a refund unless the item in question was returned and in possession of the seller. They also said that it was not reasonable to demand refund w/o returning the item in question.

My policy of returning the item w/o question is on par with Costco/MidwayUSA.

There are 2 kinds of folks who commit scam. Folks who do it regularly and folks who do it when they think the other party is an "easy mark."

FWIW, high degree of transparency is the way to police these matter.

As for H22/Laser Product marking, anybody can easily call Surefire tech support and confirm that it is a genuine Surefire forend for Mossberg 500.

I'm also going to email all the links to Mr. Jim Alves. I believe in high degree of transparency.

Pictures at the end: I've listed a small subset of pictures he sent of himself in a separate email when he bragged about his collection/shooting, hunting prowess so that you can all know what he look like and admire it. I've decided not to post pictures of his collection.

FWIW, Mr. Jim Alves also told me that it was OK to publicize the matter, even in Wall Street Journal.


Originally Posted by Jim Alves
Jim Alves <[email protected]> Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 11:40 AM
Reply-To: Jim Alves <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: SF forearm Mossberg


I am not "making up" reasons..

I am only answering your questions..

As to the length of forearm, I answered that, as the short forearm is for the 14" barrel weapon. That would be an NFA weapon, my shotgun is not an NFA short barreled weapon.

This unit does NOT fit my Mossberg shotgun like all my other "Surefire" marked products.

I have been working on firearms for over 30 years, I know what fits, and what does not..

I thank you for the refund.
Can you not pay via PayPal just as I paid you?

I will mail back the forearm as soon as I receive the refund, just as you did not ship the unit untl you received payment.

I will be out almost $30 in shipping...

Originally Posted by Jim Alves
Jim Alves <[email protected]> Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 12:20 PM
Reply-To: Jim Alves <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: SF forearm Mossberg

I never said the H22 was for the 14" NFA weapon... I said that according to Surefire's web site, that the short forearm is for the 14" NFA weapon... Once again, I never said the H22 marking was for any purpose, I only stated the only marking on the unit was "H22",,, perhaps you need to re-read the e-mails...

Now you are putting words in my mouth...

You leave me no choice but to turn this matter over to PayPal's buyer protection for refund.

Last edited by theinvisibleheart; April 2, 2012 at 11:03 AM.
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