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Old September 3, 2011, 02:35 AM   #61
Bill Akins
Senior Member
Join Date: August 28, 2007
Location: Hudson, Florida
Posts: 1,130
Pvt Long wrote:
the thing with Bp guns is that the loading system is so delicate with the percussion caps, flintlocks and maynard tape along with the fouling that will gunk up the gun.
Remember, black powder substitutes are available that are tons less fouling than standard black powder and you can buy the substitutes that do not smoke too. They operate like standard black powder, but you have the option to choose the ones that do not produce smoke and they are less fouling than standard black powder. I don't see percussion caps being more delicate than a modern primer. I do agree that flintlocks and maynard tape primers may not be the best platforms for rapid fire muzzleloading weapons.

Also, thanks to another member here they clued me to West Lake Engineering who makes a muzzleloading cylinder that loads projectiles just like a standard muzzleloading cylinder, uses smokeless NITRO powder instead of gunk inducing black powder. It also uses shotgun primers instead of percussion caps to set off the charge.

Now would those modern shotgun primers make ATF say it didn't use a "primitive ignition system" wherein they would classify it as a FIREARM instead of a muzzleloader?.....Unknown. It's still a muzzleloader.....just using nitro smokeless powder instead of black powder and shotgun primers.

Go to this link for West Lake Engineering and read the description just above the 2nd picture, then look at the 2nd picture showing the cylinder that you load the ball into the front, and it has a hole in the back of the cylinder that you load a shotgun primer into, then you put the separate back section onto the back of the cylinder that has the firing pins for the shotgun primers on the back of the cylinder. But it is NOT a typical conversion cylinder since it does not use cartridges. It just allows you to use shotgun primers in place of standard percussion caps and smokeless NITRO powder that usually is a big no no for pressure in a standard black powder cylinder. These cylinders are made to take the smokeless nitro pressures. But they are still muzzleloading cylinders and not cartridge cylinders. Ingenious concept and they are in production.

Pvt Long wrote:
Has any one thought about weapons that are converted to take cartridges? that would make the loading process so much easier. like getting a 1858 revolving rifle with converted cylinder, or trying a gun with the zigzag converted to cartridges? (I would personally love to see a converted le mat and a walker but thatss just me
The problem with that is if anyone manufactured or made even for their own use, a cartridge gun, that gun then becomes A FIREARM, under the National Firearms Act (N.F.A.) and subject to all the federal and state laws regarding FIREARMS. Just like the 1872 open top CARTRIDGE revolvers are FIREARMS and cannot be mailed directly to you, but must be mailed through an FFL. Just like a muzzleloading revolver that has a conversion cartridge cylinder installed in it cannot be mailed to you but must go through an FFL. You must mail the conversion cartridge cylinder separately from the muzzleloading revolver for it to be legal. MUZZLELOADERS are Federally unregulated and most except for a handful of states do not regulate muzzleloaders either.

You can certainly legally make your own FIREARM for your own use, and you can legally make a semi-auto firearm for your own use. If you manufacture a FIREARM for public sale, you are regulated. Unlike manufacturing a muzzleloader for public use wherein you are not regulated. But you cannot legally make or manufacture a full auto firearm or make one even for your own use, unless you are a Special Occupational Taxpayer licensee (SOT) and even then you can only have the full auto registered to you and only as long as you maintain your expensive SOT license (wherein you first have to have an FFL license before you can even get an SOT license)....or you can as an SOT only transfer it to another SOT licensee. This is because since 1986 no new full auto firearms can be made to sell to the general public and the public can only buy and register what full auto firearms are already in existence in the U.S.

A cartridge revolver has already been made to use a zig zag cylinder. The Webley Fosbery and I believe the more modern Mateba revolver also uses the same system.

But like yourself, I'd also like to see a muzzleloading (non cartridge) semi-auto 1858 Remy carbine and a Walker or Le Mat in semi-auto too! Keep the ideas coming.

"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; September 3, 2011 at 04:50 AM.
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