Thread: Run Away!
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Old March 13, 2011, 01:03 PM   #69
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128

1) If you are ATTACKED, draw and shoot. Makes perfect sense, the attack has already commenced. (Assuming the sort of attack that justifies deadly force.)

But that doesn't address the period where you are threatened, before the attack has commenced.

2) Trained by which professionals? In what environment?

You do realize a lot of posters here are LE, right? And many others are military, right?

There are a lot of posters here who've had much more training than I have had. With that in mind, I've received training on the military side from instructors from several services, including Navy Master-at-Arms, Marine drill instructors, Army drill sergeants, and ODA members. (I was not on an ODA; I just happened to luck out on some liaison duty, and I never turn down free ammo and range time.) On the civilian side, had an initial session in 2001 and later refresher in 2007 for a Florida CCW (those covered legal aspects more than tactical).

For hostile conditions, leaving the weapon holstered or slung when under imminent threat would be considered ridiculous, and probably dereliction of duty in a military context.

For peacetime conditions or non-permissive ROE, all of those instructors taught the theory of escalation of force, or force continuum. None said to leave the weapon holstered until it was absolutely necessary to shoot. Not one.

I'll attend Massad Ayoob's MAG-40 class later this year, and I suspect he also won't teach "leave it holstered until you decide to shoot the guy." I'll have to let you know his take on it this August.

3) I never said drawing and talking would be the end-all. In fact, I specifically said not to expect that to be the end-all, but to be ready for the possibility that it might end the scenario. But even though I'm in good shape, and of reasonable size (6'/210) I don't particularly expect a potential attacker to stop because I tell him to, if he doesn't see the weapon.

If he stops when he sees the weapon, so much the better. If he doesn't, the weapon is drawn and ready, and I'm actually a pretty good shot.

4) Speaking of drawn and ready, do you get that .4 second draw time you mentioned from a concealed holster? If so, from under how many layers of clothing? Have you tried it when a BG is already in physical contact? Have you ever had clothing snag, or some other hindrance that slowed down your draw? What do you suppose the odds are that Murphy will have some say in your draw speed, if you wait until you really need to shoot?

Last edited by MLeake; March 13, 2011 at 01:34 PM.
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