[Glenn Bartley]

Some of you would opt to call 911 and others have said this is what many people would do - call 911 and observe. Let me ask those of you who gave answers along those lines:

Is one of the reasons that you own a gun because you firmly believe that calling 911 would not result in police arriving on time to defend you and you therefore may need to defend yourself, but now that you are talking about the life of another you expect a timely arrival of police after making a 911 call about someone else facing serious bodily harm or death at the hands of an assailant?

As for those of you telling others there are no moral obligations to enter a fight, are you telling others what are their moral obligations based upon your own conception of morality? If so, why do you imagine yourself qualified to tell others what should be their own standard of morality? As for myself, I would likely feel it a moral obligation to assist a young child I saw being raped, or a defenseless old lady I saw being beaten repeatedly with a club while her assailant was screaming 'die, die die' or while his accomplice was trying to grab the woman’s purse, in fact I would consider it my own absolute obligation to assist by more than calling 911 if possible. This does not necessarily mean shooting but almost assures I would seek to intervene in some manner using force if necessary.

I believe someone mentioned the use of force continuum. There is no need not to go immediately to the use of deadly force in the event you see someone already using that level of force against innocents. For example, if you were walking passed an elementary school, saw a man walk into the schoolyard, then start shooting child after child, and just moments before you saw the children playing blissfully, you would be justified to utilize deadly force to stop him. Would you take the chance then, if it was apparent, because he was reloading and saying something like "die, die, die" he would imminently shoot other children? By virtue of the Use of Force Continuum itself, there is no reason to adhere to each step before arriving at the use of deadly force, in such a situation, to stop the threat. Would I challenge with mere presence, or with verbal commands, or try to stop the threat using soft or hard techniques - I doubt it. I would assess the situation, realize the children are in imminent danger of loss of life or severe injury and I would take what I felt was appropriate action. Would I shoot if there was a chance of hitting others. Quite possibly yes if I assessed the situation and thought my chances of hitting the bad guy were much better than hitting an innocent bystander. I would not take too much time to do so, some situations require quick thinking and fast action.

Does this mean I would shoot someone whom I saw pick up a screaming kid and walk out of a store when the kid was screaming "I want mommy" or help me, help, "this is not my daddy". That is not a shooting situation and if you think it is, well you need to rethink when you would shoot or not. What a situation like that should get is a call to 911 and maybe even an attempt to verbally confront the person carrying off the child, or following the person to make sure the child is not hurt and keeping in contact with the police while doing so. I have done it myself before in exactly a situation I have just described. A child was screaming that the person she was with was not her parent and she wanted her mother. Turns out the person was her father, her very loving, responsible and good father at that. He agreed to await the police when he was confronted by me and others to check on what was happening. The kid was emotionally disturbed and the police were already aware of the family situation because of previous calls on similar instances with the same child.

As for thinking along the lines - how often will I be sure that it is an innocent who is being threatened by serious bodily injury or threat of death at the hands of an assailant - what does it matter if it is only once in your life time. The number of times it may happen is unimportant, what is important is that you plan now as for what would be your practical response if such a situation does present itself.

As for putting the life of another innocent at risk is concerned, take the schoolyard example I just gave. That is not by any stretch of the imagination a far fetched situation. It could happen and in fact does happen all to often in very similar circumstances that school children have been gunned down. Would you take the risk of possibly injuring an innocent third if you had what you had assessed would be a clear shot, from a fairly close distance, from a supported position, from behind cover and the shooter was unaware of your presence? Do you think what I just wrote is bending it to fit my ideas. Think about it. You see a guy shooting little school kids, he is reloading and yelling 'die, die, die, he is preoccupied and does not see you 15 yards from him, what do you do? Me, I would probably seek cover as quickly as I started thinking. As I sought cover I would probably be drawing my sidearm. I would most likely not challenge him unless he was about to pull the trigger again and then only to get his attention away from the children, otherwise why bring his attention to me and place myself at unnecessary risk! If I saw I had a clear shot I would attempt to take it, hopefully from a supported shooting position if possible but from the open is need be. Isn't this just what you train to do if you train in any manner of tactical shooting. Don't you train to assess the situation. Don't you train to move, to seek cover, to draw, to fire and if still necessary, and to do so using any practical support from behind cover if practical? Don’t you train for this to apply to any situation where your use of deadly force is needed and justified?

Now mind you, I am not saying I would respond with deadly force in every situation, especially relative o those where innocents are put at risk by me shooting. The thing is though sometimes you have to weigh one risk against another and then make your decision based on that. In the case of a schoolyard shooter as I described, or even in the case of someone like Colin Ferguson (shooter of people on the LIRR several years ago), I would quite possibly shoot the assailant even though there was risk to others from my shot if only because there was a much greater risk that the bad guy already shooting innocent people would be much more likely to seriously injure or kill them if I simply observed or called 911.

I am not recommending others do this, or that I would automatically do it, but saying this is what I would be prepared to do. If my assessment of the situation had me arrive at the conclusion that such was necessary to stop the threat to innocent third parties.

All the best,
Glenn B