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blhseawa · October 21, 2009, 01:33 AM

The M16/AR15 with a 20 inch barrel is a great weapon. M193 ball works great in this machine.

When the Army went to 62gr bullet and hacked 1/3 of the barrel off, they created the piece of junk I'll never own, called the M4! Always has been, always will be, ignore engineering principles and this is what you get. Junk from the Army! The problem is the .223 is not going to perform well with short barrels, was never intended too. Velocity was critical to achieving the tumbling on impact, which increase lethalness of the cartridge.

The problem is the fix cost more than the problem. The .308 works quite well in a 18 inch barrel, that is why various updated versions of the M1A/M14 exist today. The whole reason for the 6.8 SPC was to develop a lethal round that performed well in a 14 - 1/2 inch barrel.

If you insist on a short barreled rifle, than you need a new caliber. And that is and has been the problem facing the Army.

Frankly, I don't see the US Military machine fixing it any time soon either. Sure the 6.8 SPC might be a better caliber in a 14 inch barrel, I just don't seen the Army stepping up to yet another caliber.

And to me that is the bigger crime! Our politicians and Military commanders all need to rot in jail over this boondoggle.

That said, I would look at possible adding a 6.8 SPC 14-1/2 inch upper, and a M4 lower as the best choice. But that is just me. If I'm going short barreled then I would look at MP5/MP7 and weapons of the class first.

IMHO, just say no to M4!

October 21, 2009, 01:33 AM	#48
blhseawa Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2008 Location: Des Moines, WA Posts: 220	I think the question is wrong... The M16/AR15 with a 20 inch barrel is a great weapon. M193 ball works great in this machine. When the Army went to 62gr bullet and hacked 1/3 of the barrel off, they created the piece of junk I'll never own, called the M4! Always has been, always will be, ignore engineering principles and this is what you get. Junk from the Army! The problem is the .223 is not going to perform well with short barrels, was never intended too. Velocity was critical to achieving the tumbling on impact, which increase lethalness of the cartridge. The problem is the fix cost more than the problem. The .308 works quite well in a 18 inch barrel, that is why various updated versions of the M1A/M14 exist today. The whole reason for the 6.8 SPC was to develop a lethal round that performed well in a 14 - 1/2 inch barrel. If you insist on a short barreled rifle, than you need a new caliber. And that is and has been the problem facing the Army. Frankly, I don't see the US Military machine fixing it any time soon either. Sure the 6.8 SPC might be a better caliber in a 14 inch barrel, I just don't seen the Army stepping up to yet another caliber. And to me that is the bigger crime! Our politicians and Military commanders all need to rot in jail over this boondoggle. That said, I would look at possible adding a 6.8 SPC 14-1/2 inch upper, and a M4 lower as the best choice. But that is just me. If I'm going short barreled then I would look at MP5/MP7 and weapons of the class first. IMHO, just say no to M4!