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Old May 27, 2008, 03:24 PM   #105
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Join Date: March 1, 2006
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 4,000
There is the basic difference. I tend to put aside feelings when given facts. I prefer to base decisions on reality instead of make-believe.
I gave you facts that could have led to a different outcome. A 22lr really won't go through a solid door when fired from a mousegun neither will a 25acp. Whether the bad guy would have run off despite the wounds to his body is what we cannot know for sure. No make believe David but thanks for the insult anyway.

Sure, just like there are times when factors like smallness and ease of carry could have weighed heavier. The key is "could have".
How do you determine the reason something happened if there are multiple possible outcomes if something different does or doesn't happen. How can we be sure that my uncle would have survived the incident had the bullets not penetrated the door and badguy?

You don't have to believe it, your own examples show it. Note the repeated and common use of the word "might" in there? Your uncle MIGHT have chased off the BG with a .22. Do you think you would continue beating down a door if somebody is shooting at you from the other side? Or would you be yelling "Hey man, what caliber is that gun? I need to decide if I should go away or keep getting shot at!"
I don't heck no but I'm not a bad guy beating down a door. I find it humerus how the unknowns are always in your favor though.

If you understand them you should not continue to use them incorrectly to try to prove a point. That goes beyond disagreement. That is dishonesty, assuming that you really do understand what you are saying.
I don't agree with your stats. The experiences of the shootout survivors I know indicate that caliber could have made a difference. As you are aware since we cannot play each and every shootout over again with lesser or bigger calibers to see the different outcomes I must use "could have". Just as the bad guy could have run off at the sound of the shot he could have continued or pulled and fired his own gun. Neither of us can with total certainly know what would have happened. One thing is a fact opting for larger removes any doubt I have.

As we've seen before, your suggestions sometimes seem somewhat flawed. Better is based on many factors. Self defense is based on many factors. What is better for self defense and DGU combines those factors. Caliber is towards the bottom of those factors according to all the research I've seen. If you wish to carry bigger/more/whatever that is fine, but please don't try to suggest the smaller guns have not shown themselves to be just as effective in virtually all DGU situations.
In the three incidents I listed caliber was an issue IMO. In 2 of them a larger caliber allowed the shooter to reach the bad guy were it would have been all but impossible with a mouse gun caliber. In the other the mouse gun armed bad guy placed his shot on target first. The angles suggest that had he been armed with a heavier caliber his round would have smashed the humerus and entered deep into the chest cavity. Certainly better than what did happen and certainly capable of changing the outcome of the shootout. In all three the person armed with heavier won.

Caliber may be towards the bottom for you but in my limited amount of actual shootouts it played a major role IMO.
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