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Old May 18, 2008, 06:09 PM   #1
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Join Date: December 24, 2007
Posts: 64
Revisiting the Bernard Goetz scenario

This was a great read on Wikipedia. I learned a few lessons and here they are:

- Do not underestimate the effectiveness of a 5-shot .38.

- A 5-shot revolver can be deployed and shot fast enough to be effective (the article states it took Goetz 1-2 seconds to deploy 5 rounds. 4 of the rounds were able to reach their target.

- The result was a good result. All of targets were incapacitated, but none was killed. I would say that this was a successful self-defense shoot in that the shooter shot until the threat was neutralized. (Although if he had more bullets, he might have killed all 4.)

- Goetz had trained with his weaponry. The proper training can make most any pistol effective even a 5-shot .38 revolver.

Now with that said, my question to the group is that if you had 4 targets and a semi-auto capable of holding 10+. Would you try to place two bullets on each target or one bullet on each target? My thought is that two bullets on each target might waste time. That half-second of time might give the targets enough time to squeeze off a round on you.

How would you react in a situation with 4 robbers who are less then 20 feet from you. Lets say you had a 5 shot revolver? Lets say you had a semi-auto with 12 bullets? Lets also assume that there was clear-cut reason to shoot. Goetz did not appear to have that reasoning I must admit. The man was only asking for 5 dollars, but was not an actual threat to Goetz. Lets say the men had knives in their hands and were coming at Goetz in a threatening manner.

"After the second demand or request for money, Goetz rose from his seat, and from beneath his blue windbreaker fast-drew a .38 Special five-shot Smith & Wesson revolver and fired five shots with speed shooting. (Speed shooting is a very fast technique, primarily effective at close range, where the shooter initiates trigger pull prior to the sights being aligned on the target.) In media interviews, Goetz, who had prior firearms and target shooting experience, described how he discharged all five rounds in less than 1.6 seconds. (Some eyewitness testimony stated all shots were fired within one second.)"

"The first shot hit Canty in the center of the chest; the second shot struck Allen in the upper rear shoulder while he was turned about 90 degrees from Mr. Goetz. The angle of the bullet suggested that Mr. Allen was ducking[1]; the third shot hit the subway wall just in front of Cabey; the fourth shot hit Cabey in the left side, severing his spinal cord and rendering him paraplegic; the fifth shot went through Ramseur's arm and lodged itself in his left side. Goetz then immediately looked at the first two men to make sure they were "taken care of." Goetz then saw Cabey moving on the bench and confessed to approaching Cabey and saying, "You don't look too bad; here's another," and then attempted to shoot Cabey again in the stomach, with an empty gun. Cabey, who was briefly standing prior to the shooting, was sitting on the subway bench during all attempted shots. In his subsequent police statement, Goetz explained, "If I had had more [bullets], I would have shot them again, and again, and again." In a 2008 interview, Goetz denied having actually made the statement "You don't look too bad, here's another" in the subway car, but said that he did try to shoot Cabey again, after which he knew he was out of bullets[2]."
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