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Old March 8, 2008, 12:25 PM   #72
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Join Date: March 21, 2006
Posts: 943
Howe said in that article: "In short, make yourself a hard target. Most of the friendly casualties I observed were shot when they failed to use cover, or stopped in the open and not moving. This is also how I engaged most of the enemy that I know I got solid hits on. They were stopped in the open."
This is fine for military engagements. It doesn't apply to civilian nor necessarily LE. The Force Science Institute has done several studies. One showed that in around 70% of the 400 cases studied (LE) cover was not available or the shooting happened so fast that seeking cover wasn't possible. Also conventional wisdom taught police officers to move to their left to avoid being hit while one of their studies showed that was moving into most likely direction an unskilled shooter would miss. So, just because it's mainstream doctrine doesn't mean it is correct.

Additionally, Military, Law Enforcement and Civilian shootings are three totally different situations, each having its own unique settting, requirements and solutions. If you don't accept that, you are ignoring reality.

You keep talking data, yet you show no data. Show me the damn data!
Reminds me of a professor who taught business, but had never been in business. Where's the credibility of his 'knowledge'. Hearsay? Must I have faith in his word?
Go back and read all of my posts and you'll see where the data is or just wait 'til I publish the book. Why wouldn't you have faith in their word? Some of the big name "tactical trainers" have never been in a gunfight, yet everyone takes their word for it? One person's first hand knowledge doesn't mean anything in and of itself. It is a small snapshot. That is part of what started this. My personal experiences in armed confrontations and those of a few of my friends was so outside of what was taught, that I knew something wasn't right. Personal experience only gives you insight into a very small aspect of the entire phenomenon. Looking at several hundred or more allows you to see a better picture. Look at Mas Ayoob, he is one of the most well known experts in the field and rightly so.

Additionally, one person surviving gunfight is neither a gunfighter, nor a qualified expert. They are a survivor.

Nor is it decided by who 'hits their target first'.
Well, actually in the 400+ cases I've compiled so far it is. At least 70 - 80% of the time anyway. It really is simple. Moving does not eliminate the threat. Shooting does. At typical civilian encounter ranges, moving does not make you harder to hit. Quite freqently, there is no place to move or no cover available. The other guy can't kill you if you kill him first (or take him out of the fight). That is really such a no-brainer that many trainers and experts either don't see it or ignore it. They need to have some new high speed low drag tactic to sell.

The worst part of your inexperienced advice and 'booklearning' is that some average gun owner might be led to believe in 'stand and deliver' over moving out of the line of fire. That is a tragedy waiting to happen and that's on you.
Yeah and the thousands of students I've trained over the last 25 years have all died using my "booklearning".

The worst part of your inexperienced post is that you have the gaul to launch a personal attack without even reading the previous posts. Otherwise you would have known what my background is, where the data comes from, what my position is etc. You really should refrain from attacking the messenger when you can't attack the message. Makes you look like a Democrat.

I essence I guess your position is:
"I have survived a gunfight. Therefore I am an expert in gunfighting. Even though in the majority of civilian cases the person who hits the target first wins, that isn't what is important. In spite of the fact that most people don't move off of the X and still prevail, moving off of the X is the most important thing to do. While removing the threat is the only guaranteed way to survive, I advise you to move and not remove the threat. Don't worry about what other civilians have done that have survived, just listen to me, because I survived."
Is that correct?
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