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Old September 24, 2006, 04:46 PM   #77
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Join Date: April 26, 2002
Posts: 2,676
From Shotgun News, Vol. 60, issue 22.

"In 1993, a modernized Makarov pistol was introduced, chambered for the 57-N-181M 9x18 round, which is a high-velocity, high-penetration version of the original. Several new submachineguns have been chambered for this new round. In terms of wound ballistics, this new cartridge is equivalent to the 9x19 Parabellum round. Externally identical to the original 9x18 Makarov, it can be distinguished by its conically shaped projectile, which has been designed to penetrate soft body armor and mild steel plate. IT CANNOT BE SAFELY FIRED IN OLDER MAKAROV PISTOLS."

Great. But thats not the stuff I'm talking about.

The vast majority of 9x18 ammunition in the USA comes from Europe, and is loaded to less than 1000 fps in the original loadings (Shotgun News Vol.60, Issue 22) Your comment about "domestic stuff", even if true, is useless.

Well, fiocchi is loaded to 1050 fps and some of the stuff from brown bear and silver bear are even hotter with heavier bullets so your theory is out the window.

Percentage wise, you will probably get more from the High Point than another, non-collectible, weapon. After all, you only paid $125.00 or so. Selling it for $75.00 is a lot better return than selling a $600 pistol for $400. I don't know how many people are out there looking for a used High Point, but, neither do you. Try not to interject wild speculation into statements that purport to be true.

Its not wild speculation. Do a search here and see how many used hi-points you see for sale. As for a use $75 hi-point, maybe just maybe if its in pristine condition, and even then its a stretch. A quality pistol is a far better investment and will hold its resale value. Thats not speculation its simply what the market dictates.

Ok ,based on WHAT ballistic gel tests? Because you say so?
Ones like these.
Uh oh... most all these rounds are above 1000fps.

So, according to you, then the .32 ACP and .380 ACP and the 9x18 would all be the same? After all, they passed the same test.
No, not the same, but all passing the bar for self defense purposes.

Mine, too. Let's see, that's a change from your previous line of thought. We were talking about people buying them to practice, and learn, on. The fact that they COULD be used to defend hearth and home seems to be your blind-spot. You can also use a $500 repro single-action black powder weapon to defend yourself adequately. Would I want to, no, but if it's all you have, it will work.
My original assertion still stands. If you buy a pinto to learn how to race, then you're only going to be as good as the car. Same applies to guns. If you use a hi-point to hone your skills then you are goint to improve only as much as the hi-point allows.

As I was saying, you'd hardly think that you would want a High Point for a truck/plinker/trainer with those statements, sir. However, as you've finally come down into the real world, let's just let it be. The High Point isn't a Sig, HK, or Colt. It's an entry-level weapon. There's nothing wrong with that. We NEED such weapons to allow the less well-off to get into the sport. Once there, they will be exposed to better weaponry, and will, as their skill levels, and comfort levels increase, move on to such weapons. You know, I could swear that I said this some time ago.
I don't want a hi-point for a truck gun. Thats my personal preference. I don't begrudge others that do. What does bother me is when people make statements that give less knowledgable gunowners the idea that a hi-point is just as adequate as other firearms that are 300-500 more. Its not.
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