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Old April 23, 2005, 07:10 AM   #50
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Join Date: May 21, 2004
Posts: 1,101
Nobody is on trial here Frank, please just tell us what steps we should take in these given circumstances from your supreme LEO perspective.
There really is no PROPER procedure in the common sense of the word. There is what you can legally justify, and what you consider morally right or wrong. Like I said before, if I'd shot every person I could have legally justified shooting, I'd have killed a lot of people that I'm glad I didn't kill in retrospect.

1) Your doorbell rings. You look through the window and are eye-to-eye with a Mr. Nasty demanding that you open the f'ing door or he's gonna break it down. I pull my gun, let him get a look at it, and wait for him to make the next move.
First I would call the police to make sure he's not the police. If he broke down the door while I was on the phone and I wasn't convinced he was the police when he came through, I'd probably shoot him if I was in fear for my life or my kids' lives. That way you're being recorded as you take a reasonable step to try to "let the police handle it" and also recorded as the guy breaks down the door, and as you tell him to stop, and then shoot him if you have to. Before he broke it down, I'd try to figure out WHY he wanted to break it down. Am I a drug dealer and he's another drug dealer who is trying to rob me? Is he my pissed-off neighbor because he thinks I'm banging his wife? Is he the father of a young girl who thinks she's hiding out at my house after running away from home? Is it a straight up robbery?

2) Walking back to your car in a dark parking lot. Mr. Nasty pops out and walks directly toward you with harmful intent in his eyes. I stop, unholster and give him a second or two to think it over.
First I'd be watching his hands, second pull my gun out and keep it behind my leg if I wasn't sure it was a robbery. If I thought he was armed and going to rob me I'd keep my gun at waist level tucked into my waist, pointed at him and tell him I was the police and tell him to keep his hands in the open. If it was some guy I just pissed off at the bar because I was looking at his woman, I probably wouldn't pull my gun right away, if at all. I can't think of a situation I've heard of in my experience where an unarmed or armed robber would continue after seeing the gun and being warned. It's usually not like TV where they say "You ain't got the GUTS to shoot me," and then look all surprised when they get shot. If someone does that they're likely a mental. It all depends what I reasonably think their motive is. If they keep walking and won't stop, I just might walk the other way! If it's armed robbery, he's a lot more likely to get shot than if it was just a road rage incident and I have no reason to think the guy is armed. I'm not going to kill someone just because I'm afraid of getting my ass kicked. However, if you're scared, pull your gun. If you're afraid of being seriously injured or robbed, the last thing on your mind should be being charged with a "brandishing" misdemeanor. Unfortunately, it all comes down to your judgement. There is no "magic formula". We're all adults and have the ability to reason. Your ability to reason can save your life, your wallet or your car, or send you right to prison. If you can't reason well, you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun.

When ones augment is faulty or flawed the one putting forth that argument tends to attack his/her opponent, which is what you seem to be bent on doing.
So if someone gave you that kind of story on the street, you wouldn't be suspicious? Forgive me if I was wrong, but 6 months ago, you explained how you had 5 years of combined law enforcement experience, now you have a different standard of what constitutes law enforcement experience. You just sound do me like you're rather inexperienced, because in any big city, with your standard of deadly force, as posted in this thread, you'd have killed a dozen people by now. Also, you seem to be bent on justifying the minimum level of shooting someone instead of how to NOT have to shoot someone. You initally NEVER mentioned any kind of less lethal alternative, but went right into this:

Imagine if I stop a car one night, way out in the boonies miles from any sign of backup and immediately this huge guy gets out of the car squares off on me and announces he’s going to kick my @$$, he’s 6 foot tall and weighs in at around the 250 mark.

Guess what, he’s getting one chance to stop his closure towards me then its’ straight to deadly force.

Now if someone say 5 10 about 180 pounds but clearly in good physical shape does the same, guess what…

Same ending.
Your attitude seems to be "Hey, I'm justified in shooting this guy, so I'm GOING to shoot him because officer X, in people vs. Y did it." Not "I'm justified in shooting this guy because I'm afraid he's going to kill me or hurt me real bad even though I have a gun, taser, OC spray, fists, flashlight, training in martial arts, etc..."

Last edited by FrankDrebin; April 23, 2005 at 08:56 AM.
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