The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Massad Ayoob's LFI-2 and LFI-3 courses

Preacherman · September 3, 2002, 01:34 PM

Hi, Ray. To answer your questions:

1. Cost: As I recall, the LFI-2 course was $800.00, and LFI-3 was $900.00. Check current pricing and details on Mas' Web site, www.ayoob.com.

2. Ammunition: We were asked to bring 500 rounds handgun and 100 rounds shotgun (90 slug, 10 buckshot) for LFI-2, and "at least" 500 rounds handgun and 100 shotgun slug for LFI-3, plus additional ammo. in 9mm., .45 ACP, .223 and .308 for the full-auto section of the latter course. Most of us ended up exceeding the limits for both courses: I had fortunately brought along extra ammo., and was passing it out to other students by the end of each week! I used about 1,300 rounds of handgun and close to 250 rounds of shotgun ammo. during the two weeks, plus another 250 rounds or so in various calibers on the full-auto stage. (Something one doesn't often think about: most of one's time in full-auto firing is spent refilling magazines, rather than shooting! Another interesting point: I use CCI Blazer for training ammo., but this was not allowed in most of the pistol-caliber full-auto weapons, as the aluminum case is apparently unable to handle the impact of a slamming bolt in full-auto fire without rupturing - at least, that's the policy of the Department that furnished the weapons. For this reason, those of us with Blazer ammo. had to swap it for other, brass-cased ammo. before shooting these weapons.)

3. Duration: Both courses lasted a week, Monday through Friday. The pre-course literature said that they would run from 9 to 5 each day, but in practice, this was too short: we often finished up towards or even after 6 p.m.

Another point about equipment: we were asked to bring heavy-duty working gloves (not shooting gloves) to both courses. I didn't understand the reason for this at first, but after the first session of weapon-retention training, all was made clear! The dummy weapons used in this training are made of aluminum or plastic, and they can be very rough on bare skin during a fast, violent disarmament or retention technique. The gloves are indispensable for this training. They were not used for the Kubotan training in LFI-3, though, as the instrument is small, and will normally be used ungloved in emergencies, so one has to learn to use it that way. Ouch!

September 3, 2002, 01:34 PM	#6
Preacherman Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2002 Posts: 791	Hi, Ray. To answer your questions: 1. Cost: As I recall, the LFI-2 course was $800.00, and LFI-3 was $900.00. Check current pricing and details on Mas' Web site, www.ayoob.com. 2. Ammunition: We were asked to bring 500 rounds handgun and 100 rounds shotgun (90 slug, 10 buckshot) for LFI-2, and "at least" 500 rounds handgun and 100 shotgun slug for LFI-3, plus additional ammo. in 9mm., .45 ACP, .223 and .308 for the full-auto section of the latter course. Most of us ended up exceeding the limits for both courses: I had fortunately brought along extra ammo., and was passing it out to other students by the end of each week! I used about 1,300 rounds of handgun and close to 250 rounds of shotgun ammo. during the two weeks, plus another 250 rounds or so in various calibers on the full-auto stage. (Something one doesn't often think about: most of one's time in full-auto firing is spent refilling magazines, rather than shooting! Another interesting point: I use CCI Blazer for training ammo., but this was not allowed in most of the pistol-caliber full-auto weapons, as the aluminum case is apparently unable to handle the impact of a slamming bolt in full-auto fire without rupturing - at least, that's the policy of the Department that furnished the weapons. For this reason, those of us with Blazer ammo. had to swap it for other, brass-cased ammo. before shooting these weapons.) 3. Duration: Both courses lasted a week, Monday through Friday. The pre-course literature said that they would run from 9 to 5 each day, but in practice, this was too short: we often finished up towards or even after 6 p.m. Another point about equipment: we were asked to bring heavy-duty working gloves (not shooting gloves) to both courses. I didn't understand the reason for this at first, but after the first session of weapon-retention training, all was made clear! The dummy weapons used in this training are made of aluminum or plastic, and they can be very rough on bare skin during a fast, violent disarmament or retention technique. The gloves are indispensable for this training. They were not used for the Kubotan training in LFI-3, though, as the instrument is small, and will normally be used ungloved in emergencies, so one has to learn to use it that way. Ouch!