View Full Version : Opinion on possible Petition

December 9, 2001, 02:50 PM
It has been asked in the Revolver Forum whether it would be possible or prudent to create some sort of on line petition here in such a way that members could "sign" it and then send this petition to Smith and Wesson.

The gist of the petition would be a call to action on the part of Smith to begin proceedings to dismantle the agreement.

Is this possible? Would it create a hardship for Rich? Just asking because I have no idea what would be involved with creating such an electronic document.

Would we be just as effective flooding them with thousands of copies of a generic snail mail form?

I have e-mailed Smith in the past with no response back. I believe lots of others have done the same. Is there a more productive way to "get in their face" in a positive fashion?

Jason Demond
December 9, 2001, 04:00 PM
Sounds good. I would sign.

December 10, 2001, 10:13 PM
If carefully written and edited.......I like the idea.

Possible also that a few of our knowledgable writers can hammer one out and put it on a host site other than TFL. Then threads could link to it. Both here and on other sites.

We have a vast pool of writers, ex writers, editors, ex editors etc as members. Some of them can even spell, sume times.

I think it needs to be written at least as carefully and all encompasing as the infamous and onerous "Agreement".


December 10, 2001, 11:06 PM
I have been regretting this thread from the time it was four hours old.

I don't think hosting it on this site is a good idea for various reasons, none of them political.

The basic idea has some merit, although I do not know whether or not it would have a positive effect. I really have no idea of the mechanics involved in creating such a document. That was the reason I asked. To get some idea of whether or not it was feasable.

Sam's idea of putting it on a page somewhere else and getting other gun boards to link to it would possibly generate enough signatures to get some attention. I realize that there are in excess of 10,000 members here, but the active membership is less than that. The number of willing participants is a percentage of that lesser number.

I did not intend to put Rich on the spot. Just kicking around an idea.

December 11, 2001, 02:00 AM
We shall leave no good idea unkicked. Bad ones get thrashed. We gotta get someone with the talant and fire to jump on it.

Mike I ???


Caeca Invidia Es
December 11, 2001, 02:08 AM
You guys find someone to write it up and I'll create the needed software to make it possible and provide the hosting for it.

December 11, 2001, 08:38 AM
Very kind of you. I will contact a few members and we will find a way to get the ball rolling.

Anyone with suggestions may post them here, or PM or e-mail me. I won't get much done during A.M. hrs., as I cannot drag my monitor to work with me.

Mike Irwin
December 11, 2001, 03:58 PM
I'd be more than happy to write the body of the Petition.

I'm going to pull some things together this evening to get started on it.

AR-10 -- Great idea. I'm glad we were able to convert you.

Caeca -- Thanks for the offer. Greatly appreciated.

If no one has any objections, when this thing gets up and rolling, I'm going to call in some favors from former coworkers at NRA to try to get this in Random Shots.

I'm also going to try to float the concept of a "status" article for Rifleman.

I really had little interest in getting back into any form of "gun writing" other than what I do here and a couple of other Websites, but some things are more important than what I want to do.

This is one of those things.

December 11, 2001, 04:01 PM
I'm in. The day the agreement goes down in flames, S&W's sales will increase sharply from my purchases alone.

December 11, 2001, 08:58 PM
At last some very positive input to try to control our future gun rights!
I am in support of the petition and any way it can be implemented.
Would suggest that if we get something going on TFL, we get the message posted in all of the forums such as general, revolver, pistol, shotgun, etc....after the message is posted in each of these forums advising them what we are trying to do and requesting them to come to this section(or the political section), we have the moderator lock down the request in the other sections to keep the response coming to this one section on the petition issue.
I suspect that from the amount of traffic on this section that we are on, very few people ever bother to visit it and would be unaware of a petition here unless we have it posted in the other sections making them aware of this important issue.

December 11, 2001, 09:08 PM
Mike......as usual, you have risen to the occasion. Thank you sir. I apologize for the "tweek", subject too serious for that.

Caeca Invidia Es.....cool, thank you too.

To allothers who have and who will help......cool.

Potential there for a monster that they can't ignore.


Will Beararms
December 13, 2001, 01:50 AM
This is just an idea but what if a form letter was mutually agreed upon on a word file that could be downloaded by all and then we could input our names and addresses and snail mail it to Smith? A pile of paper can't be deleted.

If the word file would have to be read only, then why not just have Blank lines in the return address section and we could write or type the info in?

I love e-mail but the visual image of piles of mail coming into Smith with the same purpose in mind makes me believe we could not be ignored.

Good points Mike. We may disagree on Smith but if I were in a battle, I'd want you in my foxhole.

December 13, 2001, 06:52 AM
I agree with Will. E-mail ca be scanned before being sent to the proper PC inside of S&?.. They could figure on key words of the letter and then just delete them as they come in. Most Corps do it on their mail server looking for those famous four letter words. For once the snail mail would be the best. Maybe they better think about hiring in the mailroom soon? LOL

December 13, 2001, 09:40 AM
On the downside, printing and mailing is more work. Which, sadly enough, means you will probably get far fewer people replying.

Mike Irwin
December 13, 2001, 11:18 AM
Adding a form letter that can be mailed is a good idea.

It's also damned easy. Simple .pdf, which can easily be printed on just about any printer with no problems.

And, Adobe Acrobat .pdf reader is freeware, and included on virtually every computer that's sold today.

December 13, 2001, 01:34 PM
Float the topic so all see it at the top of their fave forum & too, I'm certain other boards'll pick up on this toot sweet. Could get more widespread dissemination than that "big bear" story.

The petition, in any electronic form, can be copy/pasted/saved to/whatever to go hard copy/fax.

As with whatever correspondence when communicating with my elected things, e-mail, fax & hard copy - only way to be sure ... ;)
We'll need some addresses & #s

Super idea.

Will Beararms
December 13, 2001, 03:46 PM
Anything worthwhile invloves work. You can bet HCI would do it. Besides, now we weed out the true blue.

December 13, 2001, 09:39 PM
Agree completely, but playing devil's advocate (need devil-horn smiley).

Having both is good idea.

Also perhaps having a central figure print off petitions when x number have been received and mail those in blocks. As has been said, paper (slightly) harder to ignore than email.

December 13, 2001, 10:02 PM
That's a great idea Borf! I don't see any reason why many of us couldn't print out completed online pages and send them in. It puts more paper in their office. Do you really think they'll check to see if there are any duplicated pages?

Herb Leventhal
December 13, 2001, 10:11 PM
I made the suggestion in the revolver forum after "going at it with AR-10". A petition would at least be a constructive way to vent our frustrations no matter which position a member takes. In reviewing the suggestions by AR-10,Will Beararms,Mike Irwin, C R Sam and others all excellent. Why not create a form letter in good taste detailing our dislike for the agreement but our concern for the survival of the company. We can than email the letter and also snail mail it . The former will certainly reach them sooner, the latter may have more "clout"

December 14, 2001, 01:38 AM
So far I'm seein.....

Form letter that each can copy, print and snail mail.

Petition that is printed and snail mailed in blocks.


Also think each should be mailed to both addresses. S&W and to Safe-T-Hammer.

Leave no tern unstoned.


December 14, 2001, 07:25 AM
These are great ideas!

I downloaded a petition from KABA last night that I just became aware of. It is worth checking out. Gives us more ideas on how to go about this, and it is worth filling out and sending in. It is a petition to Attorney General Ashcroft to please kick California in the Pants.:D


Herb Leventhal
December 14, 2001, 06:39 PM
I just downloaded and printed the petition. I agree it looks good

December 15, 2001, 06:49 AM
Heres the petition from the site.

I also printed it out and made extra copies of the signing sheet to take up to the range to get other signatures too.

December 23, 2001, 10:22 PM

Herb Leventhal
December 24, 2001, 11:11 AM
I thought we had something going

December 24, 2001, 11:46 AM
Herb.....I think Mike is workin on the writing of the stuff. He is on the road and probably static till after the hollidays.


Silver Bullet
December 24, 2001, 03:51 PM
You can bet HCI would do it. Exactly right ! When the petition is presented to TFL ready for signatures, some comment along the lines of Will's statement should be a great motivator. Do we want our RKBA rights as much as HCI and the socialists want to take them away ?

Herb Leventhal
December 27, 2001, 06:47 PM
I still have interest in pursuing this. I understand the folks that feel that boycotting Smith is appropriate although I personally don't agree that it will be productive. Let us pursue another approach and see where it takes us!