View Full Version : Computer help needed!

August 9, 2001, 11:49 PM
I can go anywhere on the web with no problem, but when I get on TFL, I ALWAYS get a "this program has committed an illegal operation and will be shut down". This will happen two or three times in a row with consecutive log ons to TFL, then the third or fourth time everything is fine. What the heck is going on? I have deleted all the TFL cookies, deleted and remade my shortcut, etc and the same thing keeps happening only on TFL.:confused:

August 9, 2001, 11:56 PM
What Web browser & version are you using? Your operating system would also be helpful.

August 10, 2001, 12:12 AM
IE5 on Win 95. I also am running PC-Cillin antivirus, AdAware, and Zone Alarm all the time.

Jim March
August 10, 2001, 12:18 AM
Best guess is, you're suffering from "KFBS" - Kentucky Fried Browser Syndrome :D.

Strip your browser out (after saving favorites) and reload it.

First, you've got to grab a fresh copy from somewhere, off of the net or otherwise.

Assuming you're on a Windows rig, and you're using Internet Exploiter, it's a pain in the butt. Best bet is to download Netscape, get it running, make sure you can get to TFL properly through that browser, and once all that's working, strip out IE. Then go download IE fresh off of MS's site using Netscrape.

Big pain in the rear. Everyone should have two browsers, for testing purposes in cases like this. Netscape is the most common secondary but Opera isn't a bad choice either.


August 10, 2001, 01:27 AM
If you go to Control Panel/add & remove programs and select the IE5, when you click on remove it will ask you to repair ir, remove it or add features. Select the repair and see if that helps. If it doesn't, go ahead and delete it. Windows 9x will revert to the original IE from your installation (probably IE4). Once that is all done, click on start/windows update and get the IE5.5 version offered there. Don't worry aboutyour favorites going away, the process leaves that folder alone. (It is a good idea to back them up just in case though.)

August 10, 2001, 05:45 AM

August 10, 2001, 06:21 AM
I run Win 98 and Win2000 Adv Server. I use Zone Alarm, PC Cillin, and IE5.5 with both.

I get the same exact thing with 98, but not only with TFL. A good temporary fix is to make sure to use the Windows Scandisk, immediately followed by Defrag. That helps for a week at a time, depending on usage.

If you're a little more advanced, Slave your main hard drive and get a smaller hard drive of average speed for your master (about 2.1gb at 7200rpm). Install minimal Windows components on the new master with IE5.5 outfitted to your liking. To save download time, use the IE SETUP program that you installed when you first got IE5.5.

IE is running too much crap at once. Zone Alarm and PC Cillin battle it out with IE's security issues, ultimately resulting in a lockup of the currently running IE program. Manually run PC Cillin and only run Zone Alarm at low security with prompt.

Windows 2000 Server runs security in a more "background" evironment, resulting in rock-solid performance. I use it almost evclusively.

Hope that helps.

August 10, 2001, 11:25 AM
I couldn't disagree with the two above critiques of ZoneAlarm more. I have it running on seven (7) different Win98 PC's all with Norton System Works installed and I have had zero (0) problems with any of the machines related to ZA, DCOM or conflicts generated by the use of multiple programs (I also have 256 mb RAM on all PC's but one, which has 128 mb). As to crashes; anyone who runs any version of any OS written by Microsoft would be follish to not expect and plan for then eventual system crash. The severity can only be mitigated by proper prior planning (P3).

ZoneAlarm may be free for personal use but the same program is for sale to commercial outfits with only a few extra bells and whilstles activated in the paid version.

I do not work for ZoneLabs nor do I own any of their stock. I just know a good program when I find it.

August 10, 2001, 05:59 PM
The solution in Libertarian's first post should solve the problem. The repair of IE fixes it 99% of the time in my experience.

August 10, 2001, 07:34 PM
As a pc tech, I would first upgrade your IE to the latest version (5.xx)
I don't believe that TFL utilizes any special plugins, and shouldn't cause problems viewing anything and everything here.
I would shut down any and all anti-virus programs (at least while using TFL) as such utilities can interfere with your performance.
I can't imagine it being more complicated than that....
good luck.

August 10, 2001, 09:18 PM

There are several way you can resolve this.

1. Recreate the error message when you get it, click on the detials button. A screen will appear telling you what caused the problem.
Example; "Explorer caused an invalid page fault in module something.dll"
When you get the sentence go to http://support.microsoft.com
Here you will see numbers one through three.
Under number one select: Internet Explorer
Under number two select: keyword
Under number three type the sentence that you got from the detials screen. You can leave off the all of the number after the DLL file, but make sure you enter the sentence exactly the way you received it.
Click: Go
This will put up all related articles in MS's KB and you should be able to resolve this from the information go get.


You can go to http://www.microsoft.com/ie and download the last Internet Explorer. But this may not resolve the problem.

Remove the PC-Cillin antivirus, AdAware, and Zone Alarm most of this programs are a drain on the processor and do more damage then good.

August 10, 2001, 09:23 PM
Easiest fix is to use Opera. I'm not looking back to IE or Netscape since I installed it. (Except for the mail client. No chell specker?!?!?)

It's faster, and rarely crashes.

August 11, 2001, 03:44 AM

August 11, 2001, 06:13 AM
You've got your email address where your hompage address goes in your profile.

I've got some questions for you... expect mail :)!

August 11, 2001, 10:12 AM
RAE, I am extremely interested to hear how you have proven this using data transmission troubleshooting techniques. Rather than use up space on TFL with OT conversation you are welcome to reply to me via e-mail [email protected] I have been working with PC's and data communication since 1981 and, while not an engineer (I'm just a tech), I don't see how your contention that ZA is a major problem holds true.

For the record, I've discussed this issue with Steve Gibson's crew at grc,com. They are very supportive of ZoneAlarm as a necessary and reliable tool in personal computer security.

August 11, 2001, 07:24 PM
Seen that before!

A bit of advice DON'T install IE 5.5 it hoses up lots of things.

Sounds like index.dat in the \Windows\Cookies folders is corrupted.

To fix you must delete all the cookies AND the index.dat file.

You will probably have to strip the Attributes from the index.dat file to be able to delete it.

First just go to that folder and open it and hit Ctrl and A to select all files and then Shift and DELETE to delete them and bypass the recycle bin.

If it all deletes then close all windows and restart.

If not then:

Restart the computer in MS-DOS mode and navigate to the folder probably will be C:\Windows\Cookies

Type "CD.." to get to the root of C: drive.

When you get to a prompt like this


Type "CD C:\Windows\Cookies"

And then "Attrib index.dat"

You will get a response like "Index.dat s "

Strip the file attributes from index.dat by using the Attrib command again but adding a minus sign to the file attributes.

Probably you will need to type "Attrib index.dat -s"

File attributes can be h, s, or t so possibly you might need to type "Attrib index.dat -h -s -t"

After index.dat is stripped of attributes type "delete index.dat" and "dir" to confirm it is gone.

After that you type "CD.."

And at the C:\Windows\ prompt type "win"

After that, connect and log back in to The Firing Line and start rebuilding your cookies.

That will erase all you Internet Explorer cookies so be sure you have all your passwords BEFORE you do it.

August 11, 2001, 07:52 PM
There is an online resource of compter help found at url=http://www.32bit.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi3/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true&category=1]32bit.com[/url]. Search their forums and post questions there. It is a UBB that has a lot of brain power hanging around.

August 11, 2001, 11:40 PM
I noticed that TFL takes a bit to load up on my system each time I refresh or reload a given forum topic. Since I'm running Windows 2000, and browsing using Netscape 4.78, I get to watch the Task Manager crank up the CPU load on BOTH processors in my graphics workstation here. So maybe there's a bunch of code the browser and OS has to wade through before it displays the actual message threads? Internet Explorer 5.0 doesn't seem to do this, and I haven't tried or installed Opera in a long time. Maybe it's time to do the fresh install approach as per Jim March's advice. Anybody have any good word on Netscape 6.1 yet?

Now, truthfully, I'm tickled pink with my Zone Alarm Pro 2.6 installation. Even though I had the Microsoft patch to fix the hole in IIS, I went ahead and cranked up my ZA firewall after 6 August. Code Red II here in Central Florida has caused all sorts of ARP-RARP traffic on everybody's cable modems, to the point of me getting several hundred hits per hour in the logs. As of this evening, it's tapered off a bit, but even with the computer turned off, my cable modem and LAN hub flash like a Christmas tree as infected machines look for targets out there on RoadRunner's networks. Never mind the slowdown and e-mail problems as folks scramble to patch infected servers and routers.

There's some really nosy script kiddies out there, even without Code Red II's worm, one's computer is barraged with all sorts of pings and port scans. Sure, there's Black Ice, Norton Personal Firewall, and others, but I'll stay with Zone ALarm Pro under Windows 2000 Professional, at least until either it crashes, or somebody proves it wasn't in my best interest to purchase it or keep using it. :D

August 12, 2001, 04:17 AM
I've removed my replies to this thread simply because I don't desire to "talk shop" here. One of my pleasures in life is being able to retreat to the sanity of TFL to escape the insanity of modern technology. I apologize to all for letting myself be drawn into a computer related discussion. Invariably, I end up in a position of having to call some ones "baby ugly". In the real world of "9 to 5"(yeah right), it's offset by a huge hourly rate. Outside of the "9 to 5" it has no offsets and in fact it usually results in my having to spend a lot of personal time proving a very insignificant point of disagreement.

August 12, 2001, 05:18 AM
Usually the topic is curtailed because the customer has the $$ to drop on a Cisco solution

You know how many guns I can buy for a Cisco solution?!!:D

Hitting 'Details' on the IE shutdown window will, 99 times out of 100, come up with kernell.dll or kernell32.dll. The ""fix" is to update the file via Microsoft's web site.

The problem always works it's way back.

Sometimes, I wonder if it has something to with the BIOS used by Via chipset motherboards. For some reason, the Intels I slap together for other people never have the trouble. Unfortunately, for the money, I'm forced to use Via chipsets for my own computers. Sounds stupid, and the problem should have nothing to do with the chipset, but that's been my experience.

There's a long list of other rants I have for Via chipsets, but that's for another board...

August 13, 2001, 12:15 AM
The "details" always show a problem with "URLMON.DLL" if that means anything to anybody. MS's help search ref'd above showed no matches.