View Full Version : The competition?

January 21, 2014, 11:29 PM
Who's buying up all the ,22 Rimfire ammo? Here in Central Calif. I only see scattered 100 round boxes scattered on the shelves, if they have any at all!
So WHo and why is all the RF ammo being bought before the consumer even gets a chance at it!
I mean we all own ,22RF semi-autos (at least 2 ,more like 4-5 in each household but what good is an empty gun?
I have been told "it'll loosten up soon" but it hasn't!
You can You can use one of those sniper sites but ya better be fast and ready to stay up all nite.
I just miss shooting my Rimfires and am scared to use the thousand or so total rounds I own!
Friggin Antis anyways!

January 21, 2014, 11:32 PM
It seems to me that there is more to it than "we the people" buying it all up.

January 21, 2014, 11:46 PM
It's being snatched up by other people - hoarders, or other guys that haven't been able to get any .22 LR for quite some time (so they buy everything they can, when it's available).

Rimfire ammunition has a low profit margin (other than high end loads). As such, none of the major players has really increased production capabilities. They're running what they have as hard as they can, but they aren't adding new equipment.

So, with increased demand, but no accompanying increase in supply... the production gets stretched pretty thin. Every shop in the country is screaming for .22 LR. So, when a distributor gets a shipment, they send a little here, a little there, a tiny bit there, and maybe a couple extra cases to their 'premier' customers.

Tin foil hats are not necessary ... unless you're afraid of other shooters.

January 22, 2014, 12:36 AM
We don’t know where it’s going.

Let’s look at what we do know. Things that we can verify!

I called Federal, Winchester CCI and Remington about 3 months ago asking this very question. I had good conversations with all but Remington, who would not return my call.

All have toll free numbers. please take time to call them too.

All of these 3 companies representatives say they are producing ammo at the all time high in their history. The woman at Winchester told me that ammo was being produced in larger numbers than it was in either WW2 or in the Vietnam War. This is of course all calibers combined, not just military calibers.

I asked specifically about 22LR. Again I was told that in no time in their history (since the late1800s) was more 22 LR ever produced.

Now, what we also know is that Wal Mart is the largest retailer in the world. I have been told (can’t verify, but believe it’s true) that they also bought more 22 ammo than any other jobber on earth up until about 5 years ago.

Now even Wal Mart can’t get much.

I do know a few store managers, but no one at the highest levels in Wal Mart. I want to make a distinction between what I know and what I believe.

In the Riverton Wyoming store, the Carson City Nevada store and the Lincoln Nebraska Store the managers are being told that there just isn’t any more to ship to them. So it’s leaving the manufacturers in record amounts and going………where?

Now the things I am hearing from the Wally-World are not face to face, but I am getting my info from people that have no reason to lie to me and I trust what I am told by them. So I do believe them, even if I can't say I know this all to be true.

The gal in the Riverton store (now working elsewhere, so she’s not at all afraid to say what she was told) said that the Wal Mart head office can’t get the ammo shipments that they could get 7 years ago. The demand is higher, BUT THE SUPPLY IS FAR LOWER!

It’s just false that “hoarders” are to blame. Thats media BS thrown out as an excuse!

Who do you know that can “hoard" billons of rounds? If we look at the cubic feet of room necessary to store that much ammo, it would seem like a stack pretty easy to find.
TRAIN loads are being produced, but Cabellas, Gander Mountain, Sportsman’s Warehouse, Wal Mart and so on CAN’T GET IT!

Back when they could get it, they would sometimes get a bit overstocked they were forced to sell it at discounts because they could not store such large amounts. That was BEFORE the producers were doubling production.

Do you know any "hoarders" that can out store Wal mart, Cabalas, Gander Mountain, Sportsman’s Warehouse and all the rest COMBINED and not have anyone know where they are?

Come on guys………let’s use the brains we have, and answer these simple questions.

Does any small group of citizens have that much money and that much room and that much transportation capability and that much secrecy to be able to do that, ------------ FOR 5 YEARS?

I can think of only one group of people that can do ALL these things, and I bet I am not alone in thinking it. And they are not “hoarders” among the recreational shooting community.

The big jobbers can’t get anywhere near as much as they could when the ammo companies were not ramping up their production. So the manufacturers are producing about 2X what they did 7 years ago, but the biggest jobbers in the USA can get only about 10% of what they could back when they were not ramping up production. Hoarders huh?

So if I were a millionaire and had no problem paying whatever it cost, how would I buy it from those that sell it when they can’t get it to sell?

Where is it?

I would love to see pressure brought on the ammo manufacturers to let the consumers know what addresses are being shipped to. WHO IS PAYING FOR ALL THIS?

Where is it REALLY GOING?

January 22, 2014, 03:22 AM
It is estimated that there are over 300 million firearms in the US, and about 80 million firearms owners. This, of course, is likely a very inaccurate number, but it's the only "official" one there really is to work off of.

If every shooter in the US has 1 gun chambered in 22lr, there are 80 million guns chambered for the cartridge in the US. That is completely a guess though, and more to demonstrate a point than anything else.

Let's say all of those shooters buy 1000 rounds of 22lr a year. 1000 times 80,000,000 equals 80,000,000,000 or 80 billion rounds. For some people, 1000 rounds is quite conservative for a year's worth of ammo.

According to Ammoland.com (http://www.ammoland.com/2013/06/this-whole-ammo-shortage-thing-by-the-numbers/#axzz2r75TecZQ), all current manufactures combined can produce about 4.2 billion rounds of ammo in a year. That is enough ammo to provide for 4.2 million guns in a single year. So, even if only a very small portion of the firearm owning community owned a single gun chambered in 22lr, these numbers are quite dismal.

January 22, 2014, 02:22 PM
Thanks for the attempt to bring this back to reality, SHE3PDOG.
But, Wyosmith may have buried it too deeply to be salvageable...
:rolleyes: ...sigh.

My only two comments will be:
Just because 3 people in 3 Wal-Mart stores "can't get" .22 LR, doesn't mean other stores (and distributors) aren't getting it. There's plenty available around here. It just doesn't sit for long, before someone buys every last round on the shelves. ...and the cycle repeats, with the next shipment.

I don't know any one person that could afford to purchase, or has room to store, 4.2 billion rounds of .22 LR. However, 4.2 million shooters could easily make it disappear by buying 1,000 rounds apiece (as SHE3PDOG mentioned). 8.4 million shooters could make it vanish by buying just 500 rounds apiece. ....and that's over the course of an entire YEAR. The factories don't just magically crap 4.2 billion rounds all at once - it comes out at a rate of about 81 million rounds per week. Spread across all of the shooters and would-be shooters in the country, there isn't much to go around.

January 22, 2014, 03:48 PM
Contrary to what the anti-rights crowd wants the public to believe, gun ownership is increasing in the US.

Take a look at the backorder for some firearms and it becomes clear that is isn't "fewer and fewer gun owners buying more and more guns."

What is happening is more and more people are buying guns and ammo, then lying to Pew and Gallup when they get a phone call asking whether or not they have a gun in the house.

Our culture is shifting, and I think it is being driven by mistrust of both the government and the economy. More and more Americans are embracing "prepping" after watching the Government response to Katrina and Sandy, and cable shows like "Doomsday Preppers" are making those choices seem "more normal" for a lot of people.

Is this a consumer bubble? Only time will tell.


January 22, 2014, 04:06 PM
The EPA just recently forced the closing of the last lead smelter here in the United States. Due to the "Great Panic" and the thought that in the future...ammo will be bartered away as money or currency, the price of centerfire ammo has risen, especially 9mm and 45 acp. A lot of shooters who don't have deep pockets for centerfire ammo, have offset the problem buy buying 22 rimfire ammo, including the fact that sales of semi auto 22 rimfire guns has also risen.

In order to conserve my rimfire ammo...I've switched from shooting my high round count semi auto rimfires, too shooting my Kimber Classic 22 rimfire bolt gun, and my SA Ruger rimfire revolver; including my recent purchase of a RWS Type 54 air gun in .177.

Spats McGee
January 22, 2014, 05:54 PM
Whatever the Answer may be, there's a "Where is Everything" thread down in General Discussions, and this should have been posted there.