3" .410 slug would be equal to what pistol?

[FlySubCompact]

Just curious.....

Been shooting some 1/5 and 1/4 oz. 3" slugs out of my little shotgun. These things seem to jolt one of my steel plates more than my Glock 23 (40sw).

Power-wise, (or I guess, ballistically) what would a .410 slug be equal to when compared to pistol calibers?

Thanks.

[IDAHOMIKE]

According to my figures, those are firing either 110 or 87 grain slugs. Pretty light for caliber. Unsure of the velocity of the slugs, but I would think theyd really have to be scootin to beat a 40.

[jmortimer]

They run around 800 ft lbs so .357/10mm plus. The Brenneke slug is very good choice. 110 grains at 1,755 fps and 781 ft lbs. More gun than most people realize.

[Skimp]

I just love the .410 slug; it will reach out and touch you with prejudices and determination. The Judge shoots the .410 and the .45 out the same barrel.

[ScottRiqui]

This guy (http://mcb-homis.com/slug_410/slugtest/index.htm)tested four .410 slugs, three of which are the same weights as the ones you were shooting. Muzzle energies were between 704 and 722 ft-lbs, which is more than most commercial .40 S&W loadings fired from pistol-length barrels.

[jmortimer]

Thanks for the link. That "guy" got 1,065 ft lbs with the Brenneke. The terminal performance was awesome. The slug was intact at over 2,000 fps. So we are well beyond .357/10mm, right below .41 mag

[IDAHOMIKE]

I figured theyd be much more sedate than that, I stand corrected. Still seems light for caliber to me, but certainly nothing to sneeze at.

[Webleymkv]

Brenekke lists their 3" Magnum .410 Slug as 114gr at 1755fps for 781fpe energy. By comparison, Reminton lists their .41 Magnum JSP loading as 210gr at 1300fps for 788fpe. So, energy-wise anyway, it would be pretty comparable to a .41 Magnum.

Bear in mind, however, that energy is only one part of the equation. The heavier bullet of the .41 Magnum will likely give substantially deeper penetration than the lighter, faster .410 slug. Also, the Brenekke slug is very hard lead which is designed to deform/expand little or none. Loaded with an expanding bullet, the .410 slug would likely have very shallow penetration due to its light weight and low cross-sectional density.

[jmortimer]

Six plus inches of penetration in wet newspaper is nothing to sneeze at. About the same as OO buckshot from a 12 guage which goes six inches in wet newspaper. For bad guys and deer, the Brenneke slug would work real good.

[FlySubCompact]

Interesting. I knew something was going on with these judging by the way it hammered my target plate. I just started reloading with 9mm pistol cartridges. As expensive as .410 shells are (and considering how accurately my shotgun shoots the 1/4 oz slugs) I'd like to eventually reload and custom handload these. Slugs, buckshot and shot.

Speaking of reloading for these.....I noticed that Midway sells full length brass cases. Magtech brass. Anyone here use those?

Scott,

Thanks for that link.

[idek]

Hodgdon Cartridge load data online shows several .357 cartridges that use a 110 grain Hornady XTP bullet traveling at velocities near or faster than 1800 fps (these specs are shown in the handgun section, not in the rifle section, in case anyone wonders), so just in terms of mass and velocity, that's probably as close as you'll get. This would also give them about the same muzzle energy.

Of course, the different bullet designs/diameters will change their end performance.

[gsteele]

I'm not sure where the idea that a .410 slug equates to a .41 Magnum comes from. I read that a .410 slug weighs around 87 - 110 grains, and it leaves the barrel of a shotgun at around 1,000 f/s or less. Paul Harrell has a YouTube video where he chronographs 00 buck out of a 3" magnum shell at 960 f/s. If that's the speed of a slug, that's roughly the equivalent of a .380 ACP - and not as powerful as a .380 ACP +P. No one thinks of a .380 as a powerhouse; adequate, sure - but powerhouse? The slug would have to be traveling far faster to reach the power range of a .41 Magnum. Granted, a .410 slug is larger diameter - but it's hard to imagine it as harder-hitting than a .40 S&W, for example, which throws a 135 grain out at about 1,300 f/s, more or less. Seems anemic compared to a defensive handgun - and even a 9mm, with a dozen or more rounds ready to go, bests it in bullet weight and velocity.

Update: I checked back to the Paul Harrell video to check my memory; he reported 960 f/s through a chronograph, but with buckshot, not a slug. If you calculate 00 buck at 60 grains per pellet, and 5 pellets per load, that's 300 grains - not 87-110 grains. That would explain the discrepancy; the slug would, given the same powder charge, no doubt be going much faster than the 3 times heavier buck pellets, and have a much higher muzzle energy than .380 - somewhere in the .357 to .44 Magnum range.

[stephen426]

Don't forget to factor in the barrel length. Without a special permit, shotguns are required to be a minimum of 18 inches. This gives plenty of room for the gas to expand and for the slug to reach higher velocities. According to the website linked above, they were getting of 1700 fps to 2100 fps, which is pretty darn fast. I wonder how much velocity drops when shot out of a handgun like the Taurus Judge.

I was able to find this article which predicts the Judge would be pretty devastating. https://shootingthebull.net/blog/how-effective-is-a-hit-from-a-judge/

[44 AMP]

I read that a .410 slug weighs around 100 - 110 grains, and it leaves the barrel of a shotgun at around 1,000 f/s or less.

The usual 1/4oz slug rounds off to 110gr. However, I got no clue where that velocity figure comes from. Maybe from a short barrel Judge or something like that.. Fired from the long gun, velocities are in the 17-1800+ fps range and some even higher. That's NOT .380acp territory, not even close.

I have a 10" Contender .45Colt/,410, and while I haven't chronographed them, firing .410 slugs, the recoil alone tells you roughly what power class you're in, and trust me, its well above .380acp or 9mm Luger.

[Virginian]

Comparing the abilities of a soft lead slug to a designed, jacketed, defensive handgun round does not lead me to want to shoot a .410 slug.

[gsteele]

"I have a 10" Contender .45Colt/,410, and while I haven't chronographed them, firing .410 slugs, the recoil alone tells you roughly what power class you're in, and trust me, its well above .380acp or 9mm Luger."

I can certainly believe that the recoil would be very high out of a handgun, but a sizeable percentage of that could just be the effect of the much faster moving combustion gas and unburned powder coming out of the muzzle. I have a S&W .22 Jet revolver that has a muzzle blast like a volcano - brings people over to my station in the range every time - but the payload is a 40 grain bullet at maybe 1,400 f/s out of that short revolver barrel. No one makes a fuss when I fire my .40 S&W.

[44 AMP]

I can certainly believe that the recoil would be very high out of a handgun, but a sizeable percentage of that could just be the effect of the much faster moving combustion gas and unburned powder coming out of the muzzle

Could be, but isn't. :D

[Drm50]

The standard 410 with Foster slug is about the same as a 38special. Brennekes had more
power in all guages than standard slugs. I used 20g & 12g Brennekes for years because they were hotter and more accurate out of my slug guns. I've never shot a deer with a 410
but my wife has got 3 of her 7 with them. She has graduated to 20g now.

[44 AMP]

The standard 410 with Foster slug is about the same as a 38special.

I seriously disagree. It's not the same, its not even close, the .410 slug is more powerful than a .38 Special. Unless, you are talking about some light loaded brand I'm not aware of. I'm talking about regular Remington and Winchester 3" .410 slugs.

Winchester says their 3" .410 slug does 1800fps. Says so on the box. Now, even if we assume the factory is "enthusiastically optimistic" with that velocity, and throw away a couple hundred FPS that's still waaay beyond a .38 Special's velocity.

So, which do you think it is?? We've got people saying .410 slugs only do 7-800fps or so, and are equal to light pistol rounds such as .380ACP and .38 Special. And we've got other people who say .410 slugs do 1700fps + (and some of them have chronographs) and Winchester says 1800fps on the factory box. Who do you think is right??

I don't have a working chronograph (gave up on them decades ago, but that's a different story) but what I do have is the ability, and the experience of firing .410slugs, .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, and 9mm Luger, and several other calibers, through the same firearm.

SAME GUN. Same frame, same weight, same barrel lengths, same everything, so firearm weight, shape, action type, grip angle, etc. DO NOT CHANGE. And while I understand how muzzle blast makes things seem different to some people, and is a calculatable factor, its not the most significant factor in felt recoil.

IT may not be something with precise numbers, but, to me, firing different loads from the same gun, and using the difference in the felt recoil is a reasonable way to roughly judge the approximate power levels of the loads compared to each other.

Out of my Contender, .410 slugs recoil more than .38 Specials, and 9mm. Very close to some .357 Magnum loads, and noticeably less than .44 Magnum loads. That's my hands on experience, and I shoot that same Contender in calibers ranging from .22LR to .45-70, so I've got a bit of experience. Take it for whatever you think its worth.

[SHR970]

The standard 410 with Foster slug is about the same as a 38special.

Hardly. Fired from a Judge a 1/5 Oz Foster slug gives around 1250 fps for around 345-350 ft. lbs. Fired from a shotgun it gives ~500-600 fps more depending on barrel length putting it into the 800-900 ft. lb range.

Do a lttile research because these numbers are already open source posted based on many peoples personal tests. A 410 from a short barrel is no popgun let alone fired from a long barrel.

[Drm50]

Not talking about 3" or some kind of magnums. Just the old standard 410 slug that I think was 1/5th oz. I never studied the subject but read that in a gun rag some years ago when they were badmouthing 410 slug for deer. I didn't see the point of the statement because a 38sp will take a deer within reasonable range.
Lots of deer here in Ohio taken with the old 410s, kids mostly. They did manage to outlaw them a couple years but they were put back on the legal list. A lot of
the older 410s weren't 3" mags.

[SHR970]

Figures given are for 2 1/2" slugs. You are regurgitating old 410 wimp nonsense. Do some simple internet research. With the advent of the Judge the 410 has thankfully seen some serious advances but then again some of the ol stuff is still pretty good.

As a shotgun goes, the 410 will never be a 40 yard bird gun. But used within its limitations it is a great field gun when working steep terrain or walking the fields for small game. It is also a comptent deer gun with slugs when used within its limits.

[bamaranger]

When did 3" .410 slugs come about? I had no idea such things existed. Every .410 slug I have ever seen has been of the 2-1/2" variety and those I've shot , only a handful, seemed very mild.

We've always had a .410 shotgun around, and usually a handful of slugs for some reason or another, but I never took the loading (slugs) seriously.

[Jim Watson]

Google, man, google.
Actual consumer chronograph readings show 1700 fps or so, 700 ft lbs or so in 24". (Except for Brenneke, which is hotter, as usual.)
https://mcb-homis.com/ballistic-testing-of-select-410-slugs/

I wonder if you could find pistol speeds if you looked.

[gsteele]

44AMP: "Could be, but isn't."

Refer to page 293 of Hatcher; his point is that somewhere between 25 and 50% of recoil energy is attributable to the muzzle blast resulting from the mass of powder/powder gas (same thing in mass) released at the much higher velocity of the gas in comparison with the velocity of the projectile.

[Jim Watson]

I believe he was talking about rifles, in which the powder charge can be 1/3 the bullet weight or more. The "jet effect" is very pronounced.
Not so much in pistols.

Not sure about shotshells.
When I was shooting a lot of Trap, there was a theory that slow burning powders would accelerate the load more gradually and "spread out" the recoil even though a heavier charge was required. That was the American Model.
The European Model was to use a light charge of fast burning powder to minimize the ejecta.

My model? Could not tell a difference with the demands of getting on the targets.

[44 AMP]

44AMP: "Could be, but isn't."

Refer to page 293 of Hatcher;....

Looking back now, I was in a hurry at the time, and probably should have said "it doesn't matter" instead of just "isn't". You mentioned the muzzle blast of the .22 Jet, and what I was trying to say is that the muzzle blast of the round isn't affecting my judgement of FELT RECOIL.

The energy of "ejecta" is certainly a calculatable thing. Might be useful if you are running numbers and looking for a result that tells you what part of A causes what part of B, but to me, it simply doesn't matter.

The powder gas, and what ever percentage it adds to, or composes of the recoil energy doesn't matter, in this case. It's not something we can separate out. it is but one of the many factors involved in FELT recoil, and I think other factors override the effect from powder gas, in this case.

[ThomasT]

I'm not sure where the idea that a .410 slug equates to a .41 Magnum comes from. I read that a .410 slug weighs around 87 - 110 grains, and it leaves the barrel of a shotgun at around 1,000 f/s or less. Paul Harrell has a YouTube video where he chronographs 00 buck out of a 3" magnum shell at 960 f/s. If that's the speed of a slug, that's roughly the equivalent of a .380 ACP - and not as powerful as a .380 ACP +P. No one thinks of a .380 as a powerhouse; adequate, sure - but powerhouse? The slug would have to be traveling far faster to reach the power range of a .41 Magnum. Granted, a .410 slug is larger diameter - but it's hard to imagine it as harder-hitting than a .40 S&W, for example, which throws a 135 grain out at about 1,300 f/s, more or less. Seems anemic compared to a defensive handgun - and even a 9mm, with a dozen or more rounds ready to go, bests it in bullet weight and velocity.

Update: I checked back to the Paul Harrell video to check my memory; he reported 960 f/s through a chronograph, but with buckshot, not a slug. If you calculate 00 buck at 60 grains per pellet, and 5 pellets per load, that's 300 grains - not 87-110 grains. That would explain the discrepancy; the slug would, given the same powder charge, no doubt be going much faster than the 3 times heavier buck pellets, and have a much higher muzzle energy than .380 - somewhere in the .357 to .44 Magnum range.

First you bring back a seven year old Zombie thread and start your reply by saying you don't know where people get the idea that a .410 slug is in the 41 mag class and finish your thread stating the .410 is between the 357 and 44 mag in power.

You're going to have a great career in the gun forums.:rolleyes:

I load a 3 ball .395 diameter 95gr load in my .410 shells that should be going around 1150fps. That puts each ball somewhere above the .380 and just below the 9mm in power. I know they blow the crap out of 2x4 wood.

[44 AMP]

I just watched a video of a guy firing a 3" Winchester .410 slug (1/5 oz) over a chronograph, from a 22" barrel gun. The chronograph showed 1808fps. Advertised velocity was 1830fps. That's close enough for me.

So, we've got a 87.5gr projectile at 1800 fps. The 1/4oz slug works out to be approximately 110gr, and its advertised velocity is 1800fps, so I would expect it to be a little slower than the lighter slug, but not a great deal lower.

But lets say the 110gr slug does 1700fps (it might be faster), what pistol round does that seem closest to?

I am still puzzled where the low numbers for slugs come from. All shotguns fire shot at speeds between (roughly) 1100-1300fps. This can be reached with black powder, and while faster speed is possible now, much faster is not done, with shot shells, because when you get past about 1300 or so, patterns get worse. Slugs don't worry about patterns. They are loaded to higher velocities than shot.

[darkgael]

Earlier question about brass hulls.....
I have never been happy with .410 brass hulls. Why? The fit of components is an issue. Hulls from Magtech are drawn brass. The interior diameter is larger than standard .410 components. If you buy .410 slugs, they will rattle around the inside of a .410 Magtech brass hull. The same happens with shot loads...the hull is too wide for a proper fit with a .410 plastic wad.
If you want to try brass hulls that work with little fuss, you have to buy lathe turned hulls like those made by the Rocky Mt. Cartridge Co. The hulls are NOT cheap. $90 for 20 2.5"/$94 for 20 3". They are very well made and will last longer than the gun will.
Pete