marine6680
August 20, 2012, 12:40 AM
I had this over on AR15... but I like this forum better. :D Just looking to make sure my thinking is straight, and I am not way off base.
I am looking to build an A2/rifle (flat top) and a 16 inch mid length gas system carbine.
Been out of the AR game for several years, and now its time to come back... The new fiance and her new found love of shooting is a big factor for this. :cool:
Reasons/Uses:
The A2 will be for longer distance type shooting with a 4X scope (but I am not looking for match grade MOA accuracy, just good accuracy.)
The Carbine, for normal carbine uses.
I will be building the lowers, but not settled on if I will build the uppers. I am leaning toward not building the uppers.
I am looking at staying around $800 or less for the carbine build. The rifle build is looking to be around $100-150 more from the parts prices I have seen. The price is not set in stone, I am willing to pay a little more if it means much better quality in the end. I am looking at an overall budget of $2500 max to build the ARs, get several spare magazines and some ammo... So build the two rifles, (less spent here means more for ammo) plus at least 14 magazines, and some bulk brass cased .223. (for reloading... but I will need to look at the economics of reloading .223, it may not be worth it, making steel cased ammo a better choice)
Everyone seems to feel Colt is the standard, and a few companies like BCM and Noveske meet or exceed that quality standard. (or so is claimed) I am looking to meet or at least be near "Colt" quality/reliability if possible. Sure, I can use BCM uppers, lowers and parts kits, but I won't save very much from just buying a complete rifle in the end... and I am sure I will be well over $1000 total for each rifle when all is said and done. I don't need name brands, just good quality that I don't have to worry flaking out on me.
Things I am looking for:
Receivers... 7075 forged mil spec (seems most respectable brands meet this)
Barrels... Mil spec or better steel, chrome lined. I want a heavy profile barrel on the rifle, but an A2 profile is not out of the question. Same with the carbine, but profile is not as important. Hammer forged would be nice as well, but not required.
Receiver extensions/buffer tube... 7075 forged, but extruded is not out of the question. The use of 7075 is the important part. (some say extruding is a forging process, may be, but most labeled as such are cheaper aluminum)
Parts kit... A quality kit, I do not need adjustable triggers or even a two stage. Standard is fine.
Furniture... Magpul MOE all around
Bolt... Standard Mil spec is good, but any bolt with features that increase reliability and ease cleaning is welcome, if the price is right. I believe shot peening is mil spec. (definitely not a AR-15 civilian style bolt, from what I understand, they stress the firing pin more during cycling, plus the weight of the Mil spec aids proper cycling)
Sights... A good BUIS, probably Magpul. The front sight will be a standard A2 FSP and Carbine F marked FSP (unless middies use A2) Also a decent scope and red dot/holo sight, but not top of the line like Trijicon, that is coming later.
Few extra bits of consideration... Nitrided barrels like LWRC and Sig 550's would be nice, but I would bet hard to find and more costly as aftermarket, same goes with the treated bolts. Also, not sure if using a fixed stock on the A2 or a carbine style. Leaning toward fixed, as the fiance liked the feel of it fine. (the A2 will be hers)
Why these specifics... I want a quality built and reliable rifle. I want it to last, and these will not be "babied" at static ranges. We have a practical shooting club near by that does shooting at several stations, running to each stage... The rifles will be bumped and banged around, braced against barriers, you know, the usual... and trips and tumbles are not unheard of at those kinds of events. So being built tough is a good idea. Its all informal, but no point half hearting it when doing the stages.
Also, we are looking at the Magpul gear in Foliage green and OD green. Mostly just to be different from standard black. The Foliage green looks grey'ish in my opinion. Several A2 fixed stocks look grey, so I was wondering how they looked together. Either that or I will go with the Magpul fixed stock. Feel free to post pics of the Foliage green gear on your rifle, as I do not see it often. Seeing the gear on a rifle with a grey A2 stock would be a big help. (if you know of a pic out there, you can point me to it as well, thanks)
As far as the Red dot/holo sight and scope, I would like some suggestions... remember, I am not looking at high end models yet, that will be later. (currently the plan is to eventually end up with a Trijicon 4X, possibly the fiber optic illumination version, and an Aimpoint or Eotech)
I am currently looking at the Burris AR-536 as a scope option, but it is a little expensive. I am not sure about the red dot/holo sight. Reasonable suggestions are welcome... keep in mind the cost of an Aimpoint and Eotech, as I want to be at a third or less in cost, if not, I may as well just get an Aimpoint or Eotech now and not wait. (unless you can convince me that your suggestion is just as good as them and therefor makes me not need to get a new sight later) Also, the scope/red dot may be waiting until a few months after the build.
And I don't much care for rails other than the upper receiver. I am not one who likes to hang a bunch of crap off my rifle. The Magpull foregrips allow me to attach things should I ever choose to anyway.
Things as I understand them Feel free to correct/educate.
7075 aluminum is better/stronger than 6075. (I have known this from other pursuits)
Forged vs billet... given identical specs/design/shape and identical alloys... billet is not stronger than forged, and in fact forged can be stronger due to work/tool hardening during the manufacturing process. So spending extra for billet is not really necessary.
Heavier barrel profiles tend to be more accurate (not really a big deal in non-match barrels) or handle faster rates of fire better. (heat dissipation/absorption) The cost is added weight.
Barrel steel... there is 4140, and 4150... plus a mil spec standard. I am not 100% sure if 4150 is the same as the mil spec, I don't think it is. Some manufacturers refer to a "machine gun barrel steel"... not 100% on where it fits in, it may refer to the 4150. Info on this would be helpful.
Buffers... the carbine needs a heavier buffer to help get cycling timing/dwell time correct. I am not sure where the mid length fits into the buffer weights. I would think it needs lower weight than the carbine length system. I believe the carbine length uses either the H, or H2 buffer and I do not know of a lighter carbine style buffer than the H... If I did choose to go with a carbine style stock on the A2, what buffer do I need there?
I am looking hard at PSA receivers. The price isn't too bad, and they have sales on occasion. They have many options for barreled uppers with barrels by FN, and with or without a BCG. They also have FN made CHF barrels made to M249 specs, like Noveske uses. People seem to like PSA... I noticed that if you want 7075 receiver extensions you must be sure to get the more expensive kits that includes it... People have recommended their parts kits as well.
So any suggestions on which manufacturers to go with or avoid, would be helpful. As well as any general suggestions and answers to my questions I posed above. Feel free to point me in the right direction if there are other posts/threads with the info I need... or just answer directly, your call.
I really like nitrided barrels over chrome lined. Seems better for the 20" rifle as far as accuracy. The fiance likes shooting with a scope, but she isn't out to be competition accurate, just to be competent and for fun.
Like I said, I am leaning toward buying the upper assembled. So, finding a nitrided barrel on a complete upper at a good price may be hard. I am willing to build the upper if all the ducks line up though.
Also, my fiance is almost as tall as I am... so she isn't some tiny short thing, she can handle the larger rifle. She tried holding one at the shop and she liked how it felt. She likes the MOE grip as well... I was leaning toward the MIAD version so I could use the small backstrap on both our ARs, but getting a feel of the MOE, we like it.
Thanks in advance guys.
I am looking to build an A2/rifle (flat top) and a 16 inch mid length gas system carbine.
Been out of the AR game for several years, and now its time to come back... The new fiance and her new found love of shooting is a big factor for this. :cool:
Reasons/Uses:
The A2 will be for longer distance type shooting with a 4X scope (but I am not looking for match grade MOA accuracy, just good accuracy.)
The Carbine, for normal carbine uses.
I will be building the lowers, but not settled on if I will build the uppers. I am leaning toward not building the uppers.
I am looking at staying around $800 or less for the carbine build. The rifle build is looking to be around $100-150 more from the parts prices I have seen. The price is not set in stone, I am willing to pay a little more if it means much better quality in the end. I am looking at an overall budget of $2500 max to build the ARs, get several spare magazines and some ammo... So build the two rifles, (less spent here means more for ammo) plus at least 14 magazines, and some bulk brass cased .223. (for reloading... but I will need to look at the economics of reloading .223, it may not be worth it, making steel cased ammo a better choice)
Everyone seems to feel Colt is the standard, and a few companies like BCM and Noveske meet or exceed that quality standard. (or so is claimed) I am looking to meet or at least be near "Colt" quality/reliability if possible. Sure, I can use BCM uppers, lowers and parts kits, but I won't save very much from just buying a complete rifle in the end... and I am sure I will be well over $1000 total for each rifle when all is said and done. I don't need name brands, just good quality that I don't have to worry flaking out on me.
Things I am looking for:
Receivers... 7075 forged mil spec (seems most respectable brands meet this)
Barrels... Mil spec or better steel, chrome lined. I want a heavy profile barrel on the rifle, but an A2 profile is not out of the question. Same with the carbine, but profile is not as important. Hammer forged would be nice as well, but not required.
Receiver extensions/buffer tube... 7075 forged, but extruded is not out of the question. The use of 7075 is the important part. (some say extruding is a forging process, may be, but most labeled as such are cheaper aluminum)
Parts kit... A quality kit, I do not need adjustable triggers or even a two stage. Standard is fine.
Furniture... Magpul MOE all around
Bolt... Standard Mil spec is good, but any bolt with features that increase reliability and ease cleaning is welcome, if the price is right. I believe shot peening is mil spec. (definitely not a AR-15 civilian style bolt, from what I understand, they stress the firing pin more during cycling, plus the weight of the Mil spec aids proper cycling)
Sights... A good BUIS, probably Magpul. The front sight will be a standard A2 FSP and Carbine F marked FSP (unless middies use A2) Also a decent scope and red dot/holo sight, but not top of the line like Trijicon, that is coming later.
Few extra bits of consideration... Nitrided barrels like LWRC and Sig 550's would be nice, but I would bet hard to find and more costly as aftermarket, same goes with the treated bolts. Also, not sure if using a fixed stock on the A2 or a carbine style. Leaning toward fixed, as the fiance liked the feel of it fine. (the A2 will be hers)
Why these specifics... I want a quality built and reliable rifle. I want it to last, and these will not be "babied" at static ranges. We have a practical shooting club near by that does shooting at several stations, running to each stage... The rifles will be bumped and banged around, braced against barriers, you know, the usual... and trips and tumbles are not unheard of at those kinds of events. So being built tough is a good idea. Its all informal, but no point half hearting it when doing the stages.
Also, we are looking at the Magpul gear in Foliage green and OD green. Mostly just to be different from standard black. The Foliage green looks grey'ish in my opinion. Several A2 fixed stocks look grey, so I was wondering how they looked together. Either that or I will go with the Magpul fixed stock. Feel free to post pics of the Foliage green gear on your rifle, as I do not see it often. Seeing the gear on a rifle with a grey A2 stock would be a big help. (if you know of a pic out there, you can point me to it as well, thanks)
As far as the Red dot/holo sight and scope, I would like some suggestions... remember, I am not looking at high end models yet, that will be later. (currently the plan is to eventually end up with a Trijicon 4X, possibly the fiber optic illumination version, and an Aimpoint or Eotech)
I am currently looking at the Burris AR-536 as a scope option, but it is a little expensive. I am not sure about the red dot/holo sight. Reasonable suggestions are welcome... keep in mind the cost of an Aimpoint and Eotech, as I want to be at a third or less in cost, if not, I may as well just get an Aimpoint or Eotech now and not wait. (unless you can convince me that your suggestion is just as good as them and therefor makes me not need to get a new sight later) Also, the scope/red dot may be waiting until a few months after the build.
And I don't much care for rails other than the upper receiver. I am not one who likes to hang a bunch of crap off my rifle. The Magpull foregrips allow me to attach things should I ever choose to anyway.
Things as I understand them Feel free to correct/educate.
7075 aluminum is better/stronger than 6075. (I have known this from other pursuits)
Forged vs billet... given identical specs/design/shape and identical alloys... billet is not stronger than forged, and in fact forged can be stronger due to work/tool hardening during the manufacturing process. So spending extra for billet is not really necessary.
Heavier barrel profiles tend to be more accurate (not really a big deal in non-match barrels) or handle faster rates of fire better. (heat dissipation/absorption) The cost is added weight.
Barrel steel... there is 4140, and 4150... plus a mil spec standard. I am not 100% sure if 4150 is the same as the mil spec, I don't think it is. Some manufacturers refer to a "machine gun barrel steel"... not 100% on where it fits in, it may refer to the 4150. Info on this would be helpful.
Buffers... the carbine needs a heavier buffer to help get cycling timing/dwell time correct. I am not sure where the mid length fits into the buffer weights. I would think it needs lower weight than the carbine length system. I believe the carbine length uses either the H, or H2 buffer and I do not know of a lighter carbine style buffer than the H... If I did choose to go with a carbine style stock on the A2, what buffer do I need there?
I am looking hard at PSA receivers. The price isn't too bad, and they have sales on occasion. They have many options for barreled uppers with barrels by FN, and with or without a BCG. They also have FN made CHF barrels made to M249 specs, like Noveske uses. People seem to like PSA... I noticed that if you want 7075 receiver extensions you must be sure to get the more expensive kits that includes it... People have recommended their parts kits as well.
So any suggestions on which manufacturers to go with or avoid, would be helpful. As well as any general suggestions and answers to my questions I posed above. Feel free to point me in the right direction if there are other posts/threads with the info I need... or just answer directly, your call.
I really like nitrided barrels over chrome lined. Seems better for the 20" rifle as far as accuracy. The fiance likes shooting with a scope, but she isn't out to be competition accurate, just to be competent and for fun.
Like I said, I am leaning toward buying the upper assembled. So, finding a nitrided barrel on a complete upper at a good price may be hard. I am willing to build the upper if all the ducks line up though.
Also, my fiance is almost as tall as I am... so she isn't some tiny short thing, she can handle the larger rifle. She tried holding one at the shop and she liked how it felt. She likes the MOE grip as well... I was leaning toward the MIAD version so I could use the small backstrap on both our ARs, but getting a feel of the MOE, we like it.
Thanks in advance guys.