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View Full Version : Triggers: How light is 1.5oz?


daniyool
June 21, 2012, 07:30 PM
I realize this may be a bad question, but I'm going to ask anyway because I'm desperate for help. How light is a 1.5oz trigger? What does it feel like? Is it so light that even a slight touch will set it off? And how about a 3oz or even a 1.5lb trigger? Thank you for taking your time to answer!

Ps.I'm looking into the jewell BR or HVR for punching paper with a remington 700.

warbirdlover
June 21, 2012, 07:33 PM
Most hunting triggers are 4 lbs. 1.5 oz. is dangerous and you couldn't even feel it. 3 lbs. is the lightest anyone should go on a hunting rifle. Target rifles are set pretty light sometimes but more like a 1 lb. or so?

Mobuck
June 21, 2012, 07:43 PM
While a 1.5 oz trigger pull might be useful in a benchrest rifle setup, it is dangerous on ANY firearm which is mobile and might not always be pointed downrange while loaded. This light weight is easily set off accidentally by the touch of a glove or any article which might come in contact with it during handling. In addition, the negligible amount of sear contact is much more likely to allow disengagement(firing) when bumped or jarred.
I've used a couple of rifles with much too light trigger pulls and both fired accidentally while hunting with gloves on. No one hurt, just a wasted shot that scared the deer simply because I knew there might be a problem and took precautions(but didn't take the time to remove my glove, ooopps).

Nathan
June 21, 2012, 07:58 PM
I don't think I could use anything lighter than 8oz. I can't feel it without setting the gun off.

I really think the ideal trigger would be something like the accutrigger with a 4 - 6 oz first stage and like an 8oz second stage.

I think with the length of the 1st stage, you could feel it and then the 2nd stage would release with just a slight pull.

I say that but my Savage has a 2lb 2nd stage and has never been the blame for a miss that I know of.

markt99
June 21, 2012, 08:00 PM
A guy at our club had a 6mm rifle for bench rest shooting. He had an uber fancy rest too. The rifle had a 2 oz. trigger. He let me shoot it and told me not to put my hand near the trigger guard until the cross hairs were on target (totally controlled by mechanical adjustment of the rest). When it was on target I put my finger on the trigger and it went off. I don't recall really putting pressure or feeling it break.

By the way the bullet went EXACTLY where the crosshairs were(100 yds)

Neat I guess but totally dangerous for any other kind of shooting.

Mark

Burner
June 21, 2012, 08:07 PM
Neat I guess but totally dangerous for any other kind of shooting.
Correct. Bench rifles have the advantage of being shot from just there - a bench. The way in which you use them doesn't necessitate toting it around loaded.

impalacustom
June 21, 2012, 08:36 PM
I have a Jewel BR that is set at 2oz. This rifle is only ever shot off a bench. I love the trigger but I would never ever have one so light on a field rifle. The position of your hand will also effect the perceived weight of the trigger pull. Almost all of my guns that don't live on the bench have triggers of 3-5lbs.

old roper
June 21, 2012, 08:48 PM
The Jewell BR ( Competition) trigger isn't set up for bolt release or saftey it's more for Benchrest style shooting.

I have some of them and others(Shilen2oz/Rem 2oz) on my target/varmint rifles were saftey or bolt release isn't needed. I like then between 1/2oz to 1oz on a good rest. If you get the varmint one with bolt release and saftey it's a good trigger but if you change springs and get it down to the oz pull weight it's not as smooth as the BR one. I put the varmint one on my 243AI and I did the bottom safety it's a walk around varmint rifle.

One problem shooting the light oz triggers and then you get use to them and you'll find a 1lb trigger going to be heavy. one of the rules at BR match short yardage 6ppc when you have cease fire you remove the bolt and it stays out till the next relay and the rifles are not set up for saftey or bolt release and actions are glued in.

darkgael
June 21, 2012, 09:26 PM
I have two rifles and one pistol that have two ounce triggers. The rifles are both used in Smallbore Prone match shooting. They take some learning to use.... You keep your finger away from the trigger until your sight picture is perfect. Actually, the triggers are two stages..... The second stage lets off at two oz.
The pistol, called a "free pistol" is used for Olympic style precision shooting. It has a set trigger and the gun is fired by allowing the trigger finger to relax and curl into a neutral position on the trigger. That is enough to fire the gun .
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/PeteDoyle/Pardinirightside.jpg

4runnerman
June 21, 2012, 09:32 PM
I have my target rifle set at 12 ozs. Last year I sighted in 3 rifles for friends at work. After sighting in there rifles I pulled mine out. What i found was what appeared to me as just resting my finger on the trigger of my rifle it went off. To sum it up. If it is a bench rest rifle you are ok, Other than that you have a very dangrous situation on your hands.

ritepath
June 21, 2012, 09:46 PM
I have a single shot 308 that someone done some trigger work on...it's no where near 1.5oz but it's way lighter than my 2# ruger 10/22. On several occasions I've accidently discharged it when shooting from the bench.

I bought it to deer hunt with but it's way to light for that.

Brian Pfleuger
June 21, 2012, 10:21 PM
The (Jard) trigger on my Ruger M77 204 is 13 ounces. The first time many people shoot it, it goes off as soon as they settle in, even when I warn them.

13 ounces is far lighter than most people have ever seen and it's nearly 10 TIMES heavier than 1.5oz.

I would venture to say that most shooters would not recognize that they had even touched a 1.5oz trigger when the gun discharged.

mike7.62
June 22, 2012, 04:53 AM
My CZ 527 has a single set trigger. The regular trigger is at 3lb. the set trigger is at about 8oz. when you can just feel the trigger It's going off. My CZ 452 .22lr has a AS I have It set to 20oz. 1.5oz is bad news for any rifle short of a real bench rifle.

eldorendo
June 22, 2012, 06:43 AM
To a guy who would pose a question as was posed by the OP, I'd hazard a guess that he'd find a 2# trigger to be really light and just right. :)

BigMikey76
June 22, 2012, 07:58 AM
To try to put it into perspective as to how light 1.5 oz is, measure out 2 tablespoons of water and put it in a medium sized balloon. That is about 1.5 oz (1 oz of water and approximately .5 oz. for the balloon). Put a little air in it - not enough to make it expand all the way, but enough to make it firm to the touch. Suspend the balloon from a srting and wait for it to become still. Use your trigger finger to touch the bottom of the balloon. If it moves, the gun just went off.

hooligan1
June 22, 2012, 11:47 AM
Definitely 1.5 oz's is crazy light, (not for the BR rifle )in just a target rifle, I set my Timney's at 2.5 lbs and that setting is wonderful for targets, I seldomly squeeze the sights off my target. But every trigger setting is different and needs to be practiced with.
And to each his own, some of these replies seem to be more PC than instructional.:rolleyes: no need for Kneejerk reactions until the OP says he's been hunting your neck of the woods with a 300 megamag with a fifty rnd magazine and a two oz trigger!!!;)

5RWill
June 22, 2012, 11:59 AM
My rifle is at 1lb i hunt, shoot targets, and will eventually compete with it. For comp i will move it to 2-2.5lbs. But for hunting and target purposes 1lb is fine for me.

Anything below a pound i don't care for.

cornbush
June 22, 2012, 12:06 PM
I have a trigger set at 28 ounces on a hunting rifle, I use it for long range shots and am very familiar with it. I would not go any lighter on a hunting rifle. On a target rifle, go as light as you want, but don't chamber a round til you're pointed down range. A good crisp trigger will do more good than a light, creepy trigger....

44 AMP
June 22, 2012, 12:44 PM
Uber light triggers are ok for bench guns, and possbily some varmint situations, but extremely dangerous in most other situations.

Consider, what's great for tiny groups on the range in shirtsleeve weather is a really bad idea when its 37 degrees, and you've been out for 5 hours. Under a pound? You probably wouldn't even feel your finger on the trigger before you set it off in a situation like that. And gloves? Warm(ish) fingers, and no feel for a light trigger. Same result, and most likely, a miss, or worse, a biad hit, in the field.

You can't even get a super light trigger on a semi auto, the action of the mechanism will jar it off!

The idea of a set trigger is still good, a standard weight trigger for carry, and snap shooting, and a very light set trigger, for when you are in a stable position and can use it. An ultra light trigger, all the time, seriously limits the safe usefulness of your rifle.

daniyool
June 22, 2012, 01:40 PM
WOW everyone... Thank you so much for all your insightful replies. I have honestly learned so much just from reading these posts. I realize now just how light a 1.5oz is. Although I would like a lighter trigger, anything that light just seems a bit extreme. Since I normally shoot with a glove on, I think something around 16oz (1lb) would work better for me... Maybe even a bit heavier. And since the Jewell BR doesn't go higher than 3oz, I'll probably have to choose a different trigger. Feel free to correct me on anything or chime in with any suggestions, everyone. Thank you all so much again!



hooligan1 - Don't worry, I will never take this rifle hunting in your neck of the woods. :p In all seriousness, I never use this rifle for anything other than benchrest range shooting, so no need to worry about the danger. :cool:

aarondhgraham
June 22, 2012, 01:52 PM
Paladin used a 1 ounce trigger,,,
'Cause he was super-cool. ;)

Click here please (http://www.hgwt.com/flash.html),,,

Aarond

.

Brian Pfleuger
June 22, 2012, 02:11 PM
I consider 1 pound to be excellent for a bench/varmint gun. Might be rough with gloves though. I don't use less than about 3 pounds for trekking through the woods with gloves on type guns.

hooligan1
June 22, 2012, 02:37 PM
Word!;)

m&p45acp10+1
June 22, 2012, 02:46 PM
My Savage has what it says to be a 1.5 pound trigger. After a year, and half of shooting it. (Close to 12 thousand rounds.) A friend used a trigger pull gauge on it. It measured at 1 pound even. Everyone else that has shot it says it so light they expected to feel slack when it went bang. It is in my book just right for me, and what I use it for.

Hansam
June 22, 2012, 03:08 PM
I have a 3lb trigger on one of my ARs. All the rest are either 5lb or mil-spec with the FCG surfaces stoned a bit to make them cleaner - not as gritty.

The 3lb trigger seems almost too light for most people to shoot safely. I get a lot of people who get behind that gun to shoot it and have an AD because they weren't ready for it to go bang so soon.

I find a 3lb trigger just fine for me. I can still manage good tight groups with that gun but I know it won't go off when I put my finger on it.

That happened to me when I was shooting a friend's Thompson's Contender. He had a trigger job done on it by a professional gunsmith and as a result had a 1lb trigger on it. He'd lent it to me to hunt with since I'd wanted to hunt with a handgun but didn't have anything at the time to hunt deer with in a handgun. I saw the deer, put the crosshairs on the deer and put my gloved finger on the trigger. BANG! I never consciously squeezed the trigger. Just putting my finger on it set it off. I DID get the deer but only because I'd already had the sight picture what I wanted it to be before I put my finger on the trigger. That's a 1lb trigger - 16oz!

I couldn't even imagine what would happen with a 1.5oz trigger. Definitely what I'd consider unsafe for the woods and even the range unless you're a highly experienced target shooter.

daniyool
June 22, 2012, 03:37 PM
Just ordered the Jewell HVR through my local gunsmith, and asked him to set it for 1lb. I can't wait to try it out! Thanks to everyone again for all your tremendous help!! :)

rebs
June 22, 2012, 04:29 PM
IMHO 1.5 lb trigger is an accident waiting to happen !!!!!!!!!!!!!

ihctractor
June 22, 2012, 04:51 PM
I have a 2oz. trigger on a bench rifle. I don't "pull" the trigger, I rest my finger on the trigger guard and when ready to shoot just slide it back and brush the side of trigger (bang). This particular rifle also has no safety. :eek:

I'd be stupid to close the bolt anywhere but on a bench while pointing at the target.

JeffSSig
June 22, 2012, 06:01 PM
How about a 4 to 10 ounce one?

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=mgwi&Product_Code=TIM500T&Category_Code=remington-triggers

johnbt
June 22, 2012, 09:21 PM
I have a couple of Jewell triggers. The one on my Finnfire .22 LR is set at 1.49 ounces according to my Lyman digital gauge. It's precise and accurate. By changing to one of the other 2 springs that came with it, and turning a screw, it will adjust up to 4.5 pounds.

1.5 ounces means you can sort of tap on the trigger with a cigarette and make it fire. It's safe, predictable, consistent and a joy to shoot. They're a work of art.

www.ada.ru/guns/remington/jewell/manual_en.htm

John

B.L.E.
June 23, 2012, 08:13 AM
I have found that super light triggers don't necessarily improve my target scores. I'll take a 1.5 pound trigger with a crisp, consistant, creep free release and zero backlash over a crappy 1.5 ounce trigger any day.

223 shooter
June 23, 2012, 09:01 AM
Just ordered the Jewell HVR through my local gunsmith, and asked him to set it for 1lb. I can't wait to try it out! Thanks to everyone again for all your tremendous help!!

I have used the same Jewell on several Model 700s for the last 15 years or so. For pure target benchrest I could not ask for a finer trigger. Mine is set around the 3 oz range.

I'll take a 1.5 pound trigger with a crisp, consistant, creep free release and zero backlash over a crappy 1.5 ounce trigger any day.

Same here , but there is no reason why a trigger adjusted to 1.5 oz cannot meet those requirements.

B.L.E.
June 23, 2012, 10:31 AM
I'm sure a 1.5 ounce trigger can crisp and creep free. I'm just saying that a super light release is not the be all and end all of a fine target trigger.

Boncrayon
June 23, 2012, 05:07 PM
Too light for safety unless you are in a protected environment without anyone else around....guess unless it is a single action revolvler. That's why mussel loaders had two triggers, one to set the action and the other to "tap". Since we are never to put our trigger finger on the trigger until we're ready to fire, a slight of hand will send the bullet especially when there is a stress in the shooter!

Slamfire
June 23, 2012, 07:18 PM
I started with 4.5 pound service rifle triggers, got used to them.

My match rifle, I found that if I went below 1.5 pounds I would trip the trigger in rapid fire, working the bolt and getting my finger in the trigger guard.

So I thought 1.5 pounds was ultra light. For a centerfire match rifle. Of course I was shooting the thing standing, sitting, prone rapid fire, prone slow fire.

Started shooting small bore prone with a 1.0 pound trigger. That seemed unreal light, had to work on approaching the trigger and not tripping it by bumping.

Now I am working on a five ounce trigger. Actually I have not weighed this Anschutz trigger, it is supposed to be a maximum of five ounces and I have tightened it up to max. You don't touch the thing till you are all aligned on target because it will go off. I only shoot the thing in a slung prone position, and when I am position: everything is set, elbow on ground, buttplate in shoulder, stock weld set, nothing but the trigger finger is moving at the end. I have to be real careful when approaching this trigger.

I found very early not to put the finger in the trigger guard as I roll into position. Used to do that with the one pounder, load, set that elbow, roll into position, finger in trigger guard. Hooked that finger in the trigger guard with the five ounce trigger and it went off a couple of times.

I suppose there are people who shoot 1.5 ounce triggers, I don't know how they feel the things.

HKGuns
June 24, 2012, 10:46 AM
My advice is to learn to shoot a "normal" trigger well. 3-4 pounds is plenty light to shoot very accurately. Unless you're a bench rest shooter and then the rifle too will very likely be specialized for that purpose as well.

langenc
June 24, 2012, 11:52 AM
I dont know about "breaking thru the woods" with anykind of a trigger...

Dont those guns have safeties?? They should be one except when preparing to shoot and dont put the 'finger on the trigger'(or in the trigger guard) until ready to shoot.

1.5 oz is for BR..

From post #25--you did it just right. I dont know when the safety was moved to FIRE??

That happened to me when I was shooting a friend's Thompson's Contender. He had a trigger job done on it by a professional gunsmith and as a result had a 1lb trigger on it. He'd lent it to me to hunt with since I'd wanted to hunt with a handgun but didn't have anything at the time to hunt deer with in a handgun. I saw the deer, put the crosshairs on the deer and put my gloved finger on the trigger. BANG! I never consciously squeezed the trigger. Just putting my finger on it set it off. I DID get the deer but only because I'd already had the sight picture what I wanted it to be before I put my finger on the trigger. That's a 1lb trigger - 16oz!

44 AMP
June 24, 2012, 12:12 PM
In my opinion, if you are wearing gloves (even the thinnest possible) anything with less than a 1lb trigger pull is stupid. And using less than a 3lb with gloves is still begging for an AD, with missed, or worse, wounded game as a result.

No glove is as sensitive as your skin. You have to put pressure on the surface with a glove before you get the tactile feedback to your finger, and that pressure is enough to fire an uber light trigger.

Even your bare finger can get numb from cold, and do the same thing with an uber light trigger pull. Guns with less than 3lb pulls are for warm days and benchrests, not game hunting in the northern half of the country during deer season.

I've got a custom .25-06 with a 38oz trigger. The gun is a medium varminter (no heavy barrel). Its great for long range varmints in spring, summer, even autum, but its not a stalking rifle, and in winter, it stays home.

I have a Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt that after being worked on, turned out to have a 12oz trigger. Great gun, been shooting it nearly 30 years. Never had any trouble, but that gun goes off when you think about it. You don't even realize you are pulling the trigger! No one but myself ever uses that gun afield, though I have let a few shooting friends try it on the range, but not without several rounds of dry fire practice first! And they still get "surprised" at least once. fortunately, the single action means its not totally unsafe, in the hands of a skilled operator.

We tend to get focused on how light a trigger is, when what is most important is how smooth it is. I have known several rifles that shot great groups, and who's triggers,when scaled ran in the 4-8lbs range. But they were absolutely flawless, no creep, no overtravel, no backlash, just a smooth clean pull. That is what really matters for accuracy, not the weight alone.

TX Hunter
June 24, 2012, 12:44 PM
I think I may be one of the only Shooters that likes a heavy two stage trigger. The Super Light trigers that I have tried in the past cause me to miss more than a slow deliberate trigger. I really like all the take up, that most shooters complain about. I cringe when I think about anyone taking a file to a trigger or modifying it in any way. :mad:

golfnutrlv
June 24, 2012, 01:45 PM
I have a 1.5 pound Timney in my Remington 700 .308, which IS A TARGET RIFLE, AND IS PERFECTLY SAFE!!

My thoughts on the 1.5 OUNCE weight is too light. I like to have enough weight in the trigger pull to be able to feel the edge of the trigger as I place my finger there ready to go. Not really a take up, but same idea in my head. I shoot this method better than having my finger a hair off the trigger. To all you "that's not safers's, this is only done when the scope is on target, and I am ready to fire. NEVER before that.

Biggest thing is learning you equipment, and being disciplined with it to the point that you KNOW when the trigger will break. My M1 Garand is a good example. There is a good takeup in the trigger. I will take up the slack once on target. Hold there until the breathing is correct, and fire from there. Can I do just fine taking up the slack and firing in one motion, sure, but this is meant to be an analogy.

sholling
June 24, 2012, 02:48 PM
My rule of thumb for my collection is 4.5lbs for hunting and self defense rifles (and pistols), 2lbs for semiautomatic target weapons. The only rifles in my collection that have lighter triggers are benchrest-only rifles and those have 2-stage triggers.

eldorendo
June 24, 2012, 05:37 PM
How does one come up with a "crappy" 1.5oz trigger?? Inquiring minds want to know! :cool:

eldorendo
June 24, 2012, 05:40 PM
I think I may be one of the only Shooters that likes a heavy two stage trigger. The Super Light trigers that I have tried in the past cause me to miss more than a slow deliberate trigger. I really like all the take up, that most shooters complain about. I cringe when I think about anyone taking a file to a trigger or modifying it in any way.

Heh! I cringed when I read your post! :eek:

B.L.E.
June 24, 2012, 06:33 PM
How does one come up with a "crappy" 1.5oz trigger?? Inquiring minds want to know!

Lots of travel before release, lots of travel after release, breaks at 1.3 ounces one time and 1.8 ounces the next.
I have shot muzzleloaders with cheap double set triggers and they don't help your scores, in spite of only needing ounces of force to release.
In fact, often when you reduce trigger pull weight, the creep becomes even more noticable.
There's more to a quality trigger than low release force.

Double Naught Spy
June 25, 2012, 07:42 PM
I like lighter triggers on some of my guns, but have also come to realize that a crisp 5 lb. trigger beats the heck out of a crappy squishy 3 lb. trigger.

I got a chance to shoot some "flashlight trigger" guns. They were all bench guns and never had a problem with them. I never attempted to put my fingers anywhere near the trigger before the gun was lined up and once inside the guard, to touch nothing but the trigger - great shots every time (of course combined with custom reloading, no wind, and proper instruction).

Made me a believer in never wanting to compete in benchrest rifles.

darkgael
June 25, 2012, 09:03 PM
A couple of the posts here jogged my memory concerning trigger pull weights....I used to shoot "Free Pistol" mathes out at Wilkes-Barre Rifle and Pistol Club. That is a 60 shot, two hour event....all of it with a handgun that has a two ounce trigger.
As shooters finished the Free Pistol
event, they were (if they wished) "infiltrated" into a similar event for air pistols that was taking place in a shed near to the pistol range. Air pistols routinely have 17 ounce triggers. As light as that is, after shooting the Free pistols, it felt like a a ten pound trigger and breaking shots properly was a chore.
Pete

uncyboo
June 26, 2012, 03:55 AM
breaks at 1.3 ounces one time and 1.8 ounces the next.


I'm not being argumentative, and understand the point of yor post, but can you really feel the difference in 1.3 oz. and 1.8 oz in a trigger?

B.L.E.
June 26, 2012, 05:46 AM
I'm not being argumentative, and understand the point of yor post, but can you really feel the difference in 1.3 oz. and 1.8 oz in a trigger?

Once your subconscious mind gets accustomed to a 1.5 ounce trigger, yes you can. A loaded 12 gauge shell weighs about 1.5 ounce for a point of reference.

HKGuns
June 26, 2012, 06:52 PM
The trigger on my stock Sako is about 5 pounds and it breaks like you are breaking a thin glass tube. I can hit anything with that rifle.

Mike-Mat
June 29, 2012, 12:58 AM
I'll bet if you blew real hard on a 1.5oz trigger, you could make it go off.

Mike

B.L.E.
June 29, 2012, 05:46 AM
You might be able to set off a 1.5 gram trigger by blowing on it real hard but you would have to blow a lot harder than I can to put 1.5 ounces of force on a trigger.
1.5 ounces is about the weight of a standard 12 gauge shotgun shell.

Mike-Mat
June 29, 2012, 10:16 AM
I just took an empty printer cartridge that weighs 3.5 oz, set it on the edge of my desk and blew hard. It moved 12" before it was stopped by a stack of papers. I think you'd be surprised how much force can be exerted with lung power.

Mike

ScottRiqui
June 29, 2012, 10:22 AM
The difference is the printer cartridge has a much larger surface area on which your breath can act, compared to a shorter, narrower trigger.

When you're talking about pressure, it's all about surface area. A pressure difference of one pound per square inch doesn't sound like much, but if you're talking about the pressure difference between two sides of a closed door, a one psi difference means that there's about 2,000 pounds of force acting on the higher-pressure side of the door.

Mike-Mat
June 29, 2012, 10:36 AM
The narrow end of a 9V transistor radio battery. 1.5 oz. Moved 9 inches. I'm sure a reasonable healthy person can trip a 1.5 oz trigger just by blowing on it.

ScottRiqui
June 29, 2012, 10:51 AM
Perhaps, but I still don't think those are very good tests. First off, an object's weight isn't the same as the amount of force required to move it. I can push a 3,000 pound car with very little trouble, because the force required to get it moving is nowhere near equal to the weight of the car.

In other words, to move a 3.5 ounce printer cartridge across a desk requires less than 3.5 ounces of force. A better test would be to see if you can *suspend* a 1.5 ounce object the size and shape of a trigger with your breath. Perhaps put it in a paper towel tube so the air is free to move around it, but you don't have to worry about the object going off to the side while you're blowing.

Then there's the issue of the *length* of the trigger pull. While a quick "huff" of air might exert 1.5 ounces of force across the surface of the trigger, will you be able to maintain that pressure throughout the length of the trigger pull?

Old Grump
June 29, 2012, 11:00 AM
I call them suicide triggers, If loaded and ready to fire an abrupt movement can set it off or something as innocuous as raising the barrel up and putting the stock down on the floor or table. I tried to fire a friends gun with a claimed 2 oz, trigger but just handling the stock getting it into my shoulder set it off, He laughed, I didn't because I have no idea where that bullet went.