PDA

View Full Version : Going back to the old school!


brmfan
June 8, 2012, 09:37 AM
Broke in a new upper yesterday (Palmetto State 16" 1:7 mid length with A2 FSB) and had every intention of slapping on another quad rail like all the others. For the sake of time I left the rounded handguards on and kept the carry handle, and just added a bolt-on MI rail and Magpul AFG2, and mounted a Surefire M300 scout to the frot sight base.

I gotta say I was surprised how smooth and comfortable changing my grip was going back and forth from 50 to 100 yard targets (standing and sitting). My grip using the AFG2 felt better on the round handguards than the Surefire quad rail I normally use, even with the rail covers.

Going cold-turkey on the tacticoolness feels sorta good! :D

PawPaw
June 8, 2012, 12:46 PM
I watch the young guys on the squad who want to carry the latest and greatest gear in our department, but don't really spend the time necessary to learn the firearm. They're shooting tricked-out M4 clones with all sorts of gizmo devices, but our standard qualification's longest distance is 50 yards. I'll go out with my bone-stock A2 clone and clean the course every time. I've got no rails, no optics, no nothing on mine and can shoot a clean score.

For most gunning, you don't need all that extra stuff. If you like it, fine, but I don't think it's necessary.

Skadoosh
June 8, 2012, 03:27 PM
I've got no rails, no optics, no nothing on mine and can shoot a clean score.

No doubt...but when responding to an officer down call in an dark and abandoned building, would you turn your nose up to one of those "tricked out" M4 clones that is rigged with an EoTech and a mounted light?

bk688
June 8, 2012, 03:50 PM
I think PAWPAW's comment was more about the lack of training with those "tricked out" rifles.

Someone who shoots a combat course twice a month with a basic M4 is going to shoot a whole heck of a lot better than the guy who only shoots twice a year because he thinks his EOTEC is going to make up for his lack of training.

That being said, gizmo's and gadgets are meant to give an edge. Even with a highly trained person, a good red dot/laser/flashlight will boost their abilities a bit.

I bet our elders were having this very same conversation when marksmen began slapping long glass tubes on top of their muskets instead of using their iron sights.

Skadoosh
June 8, 2012, 04:39 PM
I think PAWPAW's comment was more about the lack of training with those "tricked out" rifles.

Well now, he actually never did say whether those young guys qualified or not on his department's course of fire with their tricked-out M4 clones. He merely said he could clean up the course with his KISS rifle simply because it was a 50 yard course. Which is also not a problem for one of them tricked-out M4 clones...

PawPaw
June 8, 2012, 04:50 PM
No doubt...but when responding to an officer down call in an dark and abandoned building, would you turn your nose up to one of those "tricked out" M4 clones that is rigged with an EoTech and a mounted light?

That's when the 870 gets the nod. There's nothing for building clearing like a pump shotgun.

Well now, he actually never did say whether those young guys qualified or not on his department's course of fire with their tricked-out M4 clones. He merely said he could clean up the course with his KISS rifle simply because it was a 50 yard course. Which is also not a problem for one of them tricked-out M4 clones...

Oh, yeah, we get them qualified. Lots of it depends on whether or not the young'un has run the gun, or if he's maintained it. Sometimes rifles stop halfway through the course, sometimes they quit running earlier, or later. What keeps them from qualifying is generally a lack of maintenance. Keep the bolt wet, make sure your magazines work, and the course ain't that hard.

I don't care what a fellow might hang on his rifle, it simply doesn't matter to me. Really guys, I have nothing against tricked out rifles. But, if you go downrange and stuff starts falling off your rifle, we're going to laugh at you. Loudly, with great hilarity.

But, you should have seen them laugh the day I took a Remington pump downrange and started blowing magazine springs out of the bottom of magazines. I had to admit, it was hilarious.

Skadoosh
June 8, 2012, 04:58 PM
That's when the 870 gets the nod. There's nothing for building clearing like a pump shotgun.

A carbine with a taclight is far superior for clearing a building. But that's another debate entirely....

I am active duty Navy nearing twenty years. And I have been downrange as a dirt squid....and I assure you, nothing falls off my weapon.

brmfan
June 8, 2012, 05:07 PM
I was focused more on things like quad rails etc and not lights or optics (which I advocate 100%). I am of the philosophy that whatever gives you an edge is what you should use. I do think, though, that the accesorizing has gone overboard, myself included. It was just nice to be able to rock & roll using minimal mods.

Skadoosh
June 8, 2012, 05:35 PM
On my A4 rifle...I personally prefer a 3 or 4 power optic. However I dislike the KAC M5 RAS -simply because its heavy.

I regularly compete in fleet matches with a plain jane service rifle at up to 600 yards, so I stay proficient with iron sights whether I want to or not.

When it comes to carbines, I prefer a quad rail, an EoTech and a thumb-actuated taclight which, for me, necessitates using a vertgrip.

kraigwy
June 9, 2012, 09:45 PM
I'm about as old school as a cop can be. In my 20 years of LE I've done a heck of a lot of building searches.

I've learned a few things over the years. I carried an 870 and a rifle in my patrol car (granted the rifle was a sniper rifle but the principle is the same).

The main thing I learned, for LE, leave the long guns in the car. Learn to shoot with one hand cause chances are, that's all you are gonna have available.

The other hand is going to have a flash light, mirror, door knob, or what ever, and wont be available.

If you find and apprehend a bandit, the long gun is going to be in the way.

If its too dark to use the sights, then its too dark to see what your shooting, you'll end up shooting the janitor, or someone working late. You don't want a flashlight mounted on the gun, being a long gun or revolver/pistol. That's a target leading right back to your eyeball.

If you can't shoot your pistol/revolver well enough to do the job inside a building, then you have other problems.

Learn to shoot.

LE is different then military, you have to account for your rounds. Friendly fire may be tolerated in the military, its totally unacceptable in LE.

Leave your "gadget" ARs for the range, three our multi gun matches.