View Full Version : Scope too high

May 20, 2012, 09:41 AM
I have an older Rem Model 7 6mm Rem with one piece scope base with Charles Daly 3x9 scope. It is a nice scope, probably $300 - $400 many years ago. I have the adjustment at the max and it still shoots too high. I don't shoot it much and I remember it was sighted in correctly with factory ammo of 100gr soft points. I was shooting some reload 100gr Sierra soft points, non-boat tail, 4 different loads, none loaded near max, maybe 10% off max. Adjusted all the way in, it is still about 2-3 inches high at 100 yards. I screwed the adjustment screw all the way out and I don't see any problem.

Should I buy some special base? Try a different scope first? I wanted this to be my coyote gun, but I am pretty sure when I try lighter bullets, it is going to shoot even higher.

May 20, 2012, 09:56 AM
If you take a steel shim and "jack up" the rear of the scope base it will cure the problem

If you have 2 piece bases you need to use a 1" piece of round stock to get the angle right so you don't kink the scope. It needs to have an angle, not a "stair step".
So what you do is take 2 thicknesses of a steel can (like a Campbellā€™s soup can) and put them under the rear base behind the screw holes. Take off the bases and mix some JB Weld and put a dab under each. Wax all the screws.

Put them back on but only take the slack out of the screw threads so as not to tighten them up, except for the very front screw should have all the slack out of it. Just take it down finger tight.

Replace the scope with the 1" round.
Now set the rings on the bases with the steel round in them. The round keeps everything solid. The rings should be tight on the 1" round, and also on the bases, but the bases should be down but not tight. The rings will then put the correct angle to the bases under them. Set the rifle horizontal until the JB Weld hardened up completely. The next day take the rings off the bases and cinch up the screws in the bases. Remove the steel bar and replace it with your scope.
Go zero the rifle. You should be fine after that.

May 20, 2012, 10:02 AM
I suspect the stock warped putting additional upward pressure on the barrel. Is it a wood stock with a forend pressure point? You might loosen the stock screws and then gradually tighten them back while constantly checking for contact between tip of the forend and the barrel with a dollar bill. If the pressure doesn't occur just before the stock screws are tight then my guess may be a good one.

May 20, 2012, 10:46 AM
I agree the stock might need work.
BTW "jacking up the rear base" will make the gun impact higher than before. I'm not sure what you meant by "I screwed the screw all the way out and don't see any problem". If you turned the screw completely out of it's threads, there may be a problem now. If the rifle hadn't been shot for a while, the scope adjustments might be stuck. I'd go with a different scope, make sure the rings are aligned properly, and bore sight. If you read a little, there are many descriptions of free floating or correcting too much forend pressure. It's fairly simple as long as some care is used. IIRC both the barrel and forend on Model 7s are fairly light so it might not take a lot of contact to affect the point of impact.

May 20, 2012, 01:29 PM
The cheap way would be putting a couple pop can shims under the tube in the front ring.

Sent from MIUI using Tapatalk 2.

May 20, 2012, 02:04 PM
If you have run out of adjustment then order some scope shims from Brownell's or use some plumbers tape to raise the rear of the scope. I use a Weaver 20 MOA base with 28 thousandths shims under it at the rear now with 6 the 20 minute base the 80 on the turrets and another 40 on the reticle itself I have a total on 140 minutes of adjustment. If you raise the front on the scope you will be shooting even higher. If you have adjusted and nothing has happened it may be stuck or just gave up the ghost. I use Weaver for bases, Millet Angel Loc rings extended both and a WOTAC scope 4x14 50mm from Wonders Optics he's hard to get a hold of cause his company is small just him ,wife and 2 other guys that put them together ship and everything and anything else. For me great scopes I use them to shoot 1 mile on a regular bases never had to reset them on any rifle and they range from a .223 to .338 Win Mag. So you have lots of choices.

May 20, 2012, 05:21 PM
I think I confused a few with "scope too high" comment. I mean that the scope won't adjust for low enough impact. The rifle shoots too high with the scope adjusted at the max end of the down adjustment, which is turning the elevation screw all the way in. I can adjust this elevation screw out and it does raise the impact, so it is working correctly. I screwed it all the way out, took it out, and don't see anything wrong.

I haven't messed with the stock until now, which is the first time I have taken the gun apart. The gun has never been accurate, as it has an 18 inch pencil barrel, shoots about 2 moa. If I let it cool 15 min after each shot, maybe I can get 1 moa, but if you have to wait that long between shots, what's the point, right? I just need it to shoot minute of coyote.

Here some pics. I may just try lapping the rear scope ring a little with some fine sand paper, just enough to bring the gun down 2 - 3 inches. Put the gun back together and try it out. Sometimes, just taking it apart and putting it back together fixes it.

I did measure the one piece base, it is .355 thick at the rear and .270 at the front (or .32 thick in the middle at the rear and .21 thick at the front). Shouldn't they be the same? Maybe I have long range base?

May 20, 2012, 05:25 PM
Sorry, I think the base is a normal base. I just now noticed the top of the chamber drops at the rear so the base has to be thicker at the rear to make the base sit flat.

May 20, 2012, 05:48 PM
Maybe use "low" rings, Leupold is what I use. Don't think for a moment that "lapping" the back ring will work, because you'd open that ring up to 30 mm or larger before it gained any elevation.
The rings in the pic look like medium high rings, try low, and check that the objective doesn't touch the barrel.

just my buckfitty!;)

May 21, 2012, 08:23 PM
Before you get all wound up in sticking soup cans and such under your bases, rings, etc- try the correct approach. Seriously, it looks better and don't leave you feeling like a hack. Take a peek at the Burris Signature line of rings- they not only have inserts, but they have off-center inserts to change your POI no matter what it's doing. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=burris+signature+inserts/t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=burris_signature_inserts

I don't know if you mean this to be your primary varmint rig, truck gun, loaner, or what- but it deserves better than to have garbage stuffed under the rings and/or bases.

May 22, 2012, 11:08 AM
If you screwed the elevation screw on the scope "all the way out," then you're screwing it the wrong way. Clockwise lowers the point of impact!!!

May 22, 2012, 09:11 PM
Well, I appreciate all of the ideas, but I spent a few hours the other night lapping the rear ring down about 0.01" No, I didn't lap it to 30mm. It is exactly round at 1". I luckily found a screwdriver handle that was about 0.85", wrapped some fine sandpaper around it, fastened with a rubber band, put it on my drill and sanded it for about a good hour. I thickened the layers of sandpaper to make it sand right at 1". I sanded enough where when the top and bottom rings come together, there is almost no gap between the top and bottom part to the ring. I even reblued the inside of the ring where I sanded, so you would have no idea that I did anything to the rings. I haven't shot it yet, so let's hope it is enough. Maybe this weekend I can test it out.

May 23, 2012, 07:08 AM
So, you're sure you're turning the elevation screw in the correct direction? I don't see how "screwed all the way out" translates lowering the p.o.i.

May 23, 2012, 08:27 AM
We don't normally"take the screw out and look at it".

May 23, 2012, 10:30 AM
Could it be a +20 MOA base and the scope will not turn down enough for 100 yards?

May 23, 2012, 08:33 PM
Mike, I am not really sure, that is why I posted the pics and measured the thickness of the base. The rear of the chamber drops down, so the base is thicker at the rear, but I don't know how thick is +20MOA for Model 7 base. I really don't want to spend $40+ on new base/rings and have the same problem.

And, I really can't believe I am responding to the "screwing wrong direction" questions. Sorry to sound rude, but yes, I know how to use a screwdriver. I think some need to reread my second post. I took the adjustment screw out of the scope to see if it was stripped, something interfering with the screw inside the scope, or just to look inside the scope to see if anything looks wrong.

May 23, 2012, 10:26 PM
BTW "jacking up the rear base" will make the gun impact higher than before.

I was going to say this also but you saved me the trouble.. :D

I'd look at the stock putting excessive pressure on the barrel as was also mentioned before.

May 23, 2012, 10:36 PM
I can't believe I've wasted a few nanoseconds of my life, responding to this thread! I never have had problem sighting scopes in, and I've damn sure never removed an elevation screw from a scope! :rolleyes:

Big Pard
May 23, 2012, 10:47 PM
The scope may not have enough travel. I remember a friend of mine bought a Steiner scope and had the same problem. He changed scopes using the same mounting setup and it came right in.

May 27, 2012, 04:55 PM
I finally got out to the range today to test my rifle after lapping 0.01" off the bottom of the rear scope ring. I also took a little sand paper to the stock so that I can run a dollar bill under the barrel all the way. Scope is now right in the middle of the elevation adjustment. Plus, it is way more accurate. I think the stock was pushing the barrel up on the middle of the barrel a lot, as it seems that was how the stock was intentionally cut. So, I think it was shooting high due to the rings/base and the stock pressure on the barrel. I was able to shoot some 70gr Nosler BT reloads with 3 shots touching. I have never done that before with this rifle ever. I think I can work up a coyote load under 1MOA. Now, let's hope some coyotes get in the view of the scope.

Thanks to all those that put in more than a few nanoseconds to read my posts.

May 27, 2012, 07:45 PM
Glad to hear things worked out alright. Good luck on those yotes!

May 27, 2012, 08:55 PM
Thanks 10-96, I am dying to get a yote with this rifle. Everywhere I walk on the property I hunt has coyote scat on it, all with deer hair in it. I just read an article that yotes eat 40% of the fawns each year. I should eat at least 5%, I am just saying. Next weekend is a full moon. I will be in a stand at dusk with this rifle, calling, and waiting for one of these mangy pests to come running out. I think 70gr doing 3200+fps should do the trick.

May 28, 2012, 04:30 AM
I think 70gr doing 3200+fps should do the trick. And in grand fashion too! I'm fanny deep in putting together 6mm (I think). I have a very heavy old either a walking varminter or an older benchrest stock, drilled Remington 1903A3 action that I'm slowly turning into a rifle as $$ will allow.

I'm still not 100% on 6mm as I already have two .243's that perform magic with 58gr V-Max's and 46gr of Ramshot Big Game powder. A ten shot string average over a buddy's chrono showed 3777fps out of a 24" Remington tube. I don't have brass, dies, or a trimmer for 6mm, but I sure do have the urge to see what I can do with a Lilja 3-groove 1:13 or 14 twist bbl of 26" length on that set up.

How'd you come across your Model 7? Older ones in decent shape are hard to come by over here- been woefuly keeping an eye out for "the one" that just speaks to me for quite a few years.

May 28, 2012, 09:31 AM
I was lucky to attain my 6mm from my late grandfather. He wanted his 4 grandsons to have all of his guns. I don't know where he got it, probably through a trade from one of his hunting buddies in Tennessee. I don't know how old it is, I don't think it is too old, as it is the 6mm Rem and not a 244. I think it had some work done on the trigger, as it may be the best, crisp trigger I have. It has jeweled bolt that is really smooth. I assume it has the 1 in 9" twist, 18" barrel, so the velocity is not too high, but I haven't worked up any loads yet. I was using H-414 for the 70gr Nosler. I might try some other powders as I would like for it to fill up the case, how does the Ramshot do?

Brass is cheap, I just checked powder valley and they have Rem brass for 42 cents, and one of the only ones in stock. I have the Redding neck sizer die and it is great. I use the cheap Lee trimmers, they make one for it.

May 28, 2012, 04:56 PM
I REALLY like the RS Big Game powder. But I gotta tell on myself a little bit. I bought in bulk (16lbs) before their recall in 2001 or 02. I'm not sure if the powder itself was recalled or all the load data, I was deployed to Iraq when it occured. However, I show no signs of flattened primers or other signs of high pressure. It's a fine grain spherical. and I'd say it fills the case to 90% or so.

When I first started working up a load for my Rem 700VLS- I was bound and determined to make Varget work. It didn't, and all I had to show was a LOT of wasted time. Seems I had some fair degree of luck with IMR 4895, but that's just from a very fuzzy memory- wouldn't swear to it.

I like heavy rifles over prairie dog towns and an occasional yote hunt, but I sure do like a light handy rifle for walking around and for a truck gun. I usually take out my CZ 527 American, but now that I'm good and settled into my new house- I see my .243's (and 6mm when it gets finished) getting some good workouts.