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View Full Version : Best 22lr for small game hunting?


sRankens
May 14, 2012, 09:49 PM
Any opinions on the best 22lr rifle for hunting? To me, a rifle for hunting has to be accurate, reliable, it has to be very strong but somewhat lightweight, and preferably semi-auto. It has to be able to hit a gopher(thirteen lined ground squirrel) at 75 yards, theyre trying to take over my field! I have a ruger 10/22, all stock, and from what Ive heard, it's definitly not the greatest 22 for its price and I don't want to have to put in an extra $500 to make it as accurate as a $300 or $400 dollar rifle out of the box. Im willing to pay up to $700 or $800.

On a side note, what do you think is the best hunting ammo, and by that I mean what ammo has the best combination of stopping power and accuracy.

jrhilde
May 14, 2012, 10:09 PM
I know you said semi-auto, but if you are looking for extreme accuracy, dependability and top quality, then buy a CZ---

CCCLVII
May 14, 2012, 10:21 PM
I have always done well with a 10/22, especially when I used the heavy target barrel. Even with the heavy barrel it is still not a heavy gun.

jimbob86
May 14, 2012, 10:24 PM
The 13 striped ground squirrel @75 yards?!?!?!/

You are talking about a vital zone of maybe 1"x 3/4", that has a harder time holding still than a tweaker that just got a fat insurance settlement!


If you want to eradicate them, get a water trailer, a hose and a box of Tide.

If you just want to plink at them, enjoy the practice, with the .22 you have!

sRankens
May 14, 2012, 10:29 PM
CZ's are nice, very nice, and a bolt action 22 isnt completely off the table, but if I was going to get a bolt action as nice as a CZ, I would get one in .17HMR. I do like the fact that bolt actions are more reliable and easier to clean which is a huge plus considering how much I shoot 22. I will look into CZ more though.

sRankens
May 14, 2012, 11:01 PM
Haha, I should Probaly clarify the thing about the gophers, it's about 75 yards from the porch, and somewhere around 40 to 50 yards when you try to get close to them. And a bringing a 5 gallon bucket of water and a bat for 1 or 2 gophers can be a hard job by yourself. My small game quary is not limited to just gophers though, I hunt chipmunks, squirrels and rabbits, they're my primary target.

Picher
May 15, 2012, 08:34 AM
My self-accurized 10-22 is a really fun rifle to shoot at various targets and critters, but I seem to shoot more critters around the farm with my Marlin 39A and CZ455 in .22 WMR than with anything else. The CZ is pretty light and easy to carry around the woods roads and fields. It will even take down an Eastern coyote up to 125 yards.

I could also pick up a .17 HMR barrel for the CZ, but like the .22 WMR with 30 grain CCI V-Max bullets. Got three woodchucks with it this week.

The 10-22 dragged me to the range yesterday and made me put out my small silhouette targets at up to 50 yards. It was really fun mowing down those critters offhand with that baby!!! It wasn't the only gun in the truck, however. I had the 39A, a Rem 504, two 22 LR handguns and a couple of .45 ACPs. Great day to shoot and we had the range all to ourselves!!!

belveflowslykh20
May 15, 2012, 08:41 AM
my 10/22 does the job from around 50-75 yrds away with ease plus if you do a little research you can find them around the $200 range

RedBowTies88
May 15, 2012, 08:43 AM
Marlin 795.

<$140 very accurate and as dependable as a model 60 (same action/barrel) synthetic stock so it can take a lot of abuse and even if it does get mucked up you're only out $140 bucks or less.

plus it weighs <5lbs

L_Killkenny
May 15, 2012, 09:17 AM
Big Internet Myth #1: You have to spend $500 on a 10/22 to hit itty bitty targets!

For $150-$200 plus some elbow greese you can make a 10/22 as accurate as most if not all sporter .22 rifles available. Doesn't take bull barrels, doesn't take $200 trigger groups, doesn't take fancy stocks, doesn't take big high magnification scopes. My main hunting 10/22 has a $100 GM sporter barrel, a factory DSP (sporter) stock, a $40 VQ target hammer and a Redfield centerfire 2-7x scope and will shoot 1/2" 50 yard groups with hunting grade ammo (mini-mags and velocitors) off a bipod.

On the flip side if you're just looking for an excuse to buy/own another gun the CZ semi's are nice (allthough they will cost you and their triggers still need work IMO) and both the CZ and Savage bolt actions have a great, well earned reps.

LK

jrothWA
May 15, 2012, 09:48 AM
pre-Remington Marlin M39! both accurate.

Need to find the best grouping ammo for either.

Tikirocker
May 15, 2012, 10:13 AM
Can't say enough good things about the Savage MkII TR's in 22LR ... amazing accuracy out of the box. I've been shooting a fair bit of .22LR in target comp lately and have been trying a few different makes from Brno, CZ, Anschutz and I'm about to buy a Savage MkII TR myself.

Tiki.

johnbt
May 15, 2012, 12:57 PM
"For $150-$200 plus some elbow greese you can make a 10/22 as accurate as most if not all sporter .22 rifles available."

All that to get 1/2" groups at 50 yards? That's just the beginning of sporter accuracy. Why not just buy a good gun to start with and do a little ammo testing to find a good brand and lot number? :)

BigMikey76
May 15, 2012, 01:19 PM
For Semi-auto, I would recommend the Marlin 795. Plenty accurate out of the box, and lower cost than many, if not most other options.

Savage, CZ, Marlin, etc. all have good options if you want to go bolt action. Bolts have the reputation of being more inherently accurate than semis, so if that is the main concern, I would go with a bolt. Which one? Whichever one you like the best. Check out a couple and see which one feels right and makes you smile the most - that is likely going to be the best one for you.

scottycoyote
May 15, 2012, 03:25 PM
if youve already tested the 10/22 and know its not up to the task, then id go with a used marlin 60 and get a trigger job on it with the savings if you are stuck on a semi auto. If you go bolt then savage mk2 or the cz's are pretty sweet just cost a bit more.

Crow Hunter
May 15, 2012, 03:36 PM
I like my Marlin 39 in .22LR.

I got a cotton tail at about 75 yards from sitting last time I had it out.:D

For general pest eradication, I like my Marlin 25, .22 Magnum and a $8 Simmons Scope.

I am up to 13 muskrats with it so far and several cotton mouths.

One of the muskrats was swimming left to right at 135 yards down hill braced on the deck railing, headshot.

Well, technically, second shot was, 1st was a little high and behind, not enough lead, hill compensation.:cool:

mavracer
May 15, 2012, 03:53 PM
Man I wish this here internet had of been around when I was a kid so I'd have known my 10/22 wasn't accurate enough to kill all the critters I killed with it :rolleyes:

sRankens
May 15, 2012, 09:01 PM
@L_Killkenny, I don't want to put money in it until i play the field on 22's, i don't have many friends who shoot, let alone who shoot 22's, so i don't have anything to compare a stock 22 to. And i kind of just want a new gun... plus it seems more reasonable to have your plinking rifle and match/hunting rifle separate
@mavracer, I've killed many'a varmint with my 10/22, i just don't know how much i might be missing. Don't get me wrong, i love my ruger, i use it everyday.

Discern
May 15, 2012, 11:21 PM
My Ruger 10/22 and Savage Mark II have taken many gophers past 100 yards with iron sights while shooting prone, but I have killed many more within 25 yards while stalking. Yeah, gophers are bigger than ground squirrels, but the hunting method is the same. If you walk very slowly, look closely and listen, you will be surprised at how many are within 50 yards. Sometimes they are within 10 feet.

I like the iron sights of the 10/22 over the Savage Mark II. I do not care for the iron sights on the Marlin 795.

uncyboo
May 15, 2012, 11:37 PM
Big Internet Myth #1: You have to spend $500 on a 10/22 to hit itty bitty targets!

For $150-$200 plus some elbow greese you can make a 10/22 as accurate as most if not all sporter .22 rifles available. Doesn't take bull barrels, doesn't take $200 trigger groups, doesn't take fancy stocks, doesn't take big high magnification scopes. My main hunting 10/22 has a $100 GM sporter barrel, a factory DSP (sporter) stock, a $40 VQ target hammer and a Redfield centerfire 2-7x scope and will shoot 1/2" 50 yard groups with hunting grade ammo (mini-mags and velocitors) off a bipod.



This this this

Ideal Tool
May 15, 2012, 11:45 PM
The finest squirrel rifle I ever had is a 1972 era Browning grade 2 T-Bolt, with Leupold 4X.

Tim R
May 16, 2012, 06:14 AM
Since you have a 10/22 already and looking for a auto loader, I would look at a Remington 552 Speedmaster. I have a older 552 that PO'ed my son in law when my 552 and it's 22 scope was almost shooting as small groups as his spendy heavy barreled 10/22 with it's monster scope.

If you want to save a few $, find an old Winchester 190. I understand they were good shooters for what they were.

Also you might test different 22 ammo to find out what your rifle likes. They all shoot a little different.

Hank15
May 16, 2012, 07:32 AM
Grab a bull barrel by Butler Creek and a Hogue Overmold stock.

I remember reading it in this book that the set up yielded the best accuracy:

http://www.amazon.com/Customize-Ruger-10-James-House/dp/0896893235

Also install a drop in trigger assembly if you don't like the trigger.

It'll be accurate, reliable, and you can stick with a platform you are already accustomed to.

Or you can get the Marlin 795 and add tech sights or a scope. Mine shoots about 3/4" at 50 meters

Old Grump
May 16, 2012, 09:47 AM
Looking at a Remington 597, its a little more modern than a 10/22 and some have new gun problems but I think most of them are fixed now. Good to go out of the box. I have a target 10/22 and a plain Jane carbine 10/22 and both work well but for a lot of reasons I still prefer my nearly 50 year old Marlin 60.

L_Killkenny
May 16, 2012, 10:57 AM
All that to get 1/2" groups at 50 yards? That's just the beginning of sporter accuracy.

Internet myth #2: .22 sporter bolt actions from the likes of CZ and Savage will consistantly shoot sub MOA at 50 yards with great ammo let alone hunting grade ammo.

Sub MOA is generally reserved for the upper end target guns and the bench rest records prove that. I just love post claiming these great groups from sporter rifles that are better than world records. :rolleyes: NBRSA World Record for 5 combined 5 shot groups (25 shots) with a sporter is .5369". Top that off with the fact that bolt actions rimfires are as boring as watching paint dry.

sRankens, I hear what you're saying but I prefer to have my hunting rifle be the same as my plinkin rifle. Like I said, you don't need to attach long bull barrels to achieve the accuracy you seek. Many mods that you do to the 10/22 actually make it a better plinker. Guess what I'm saying is if you're gonna spend $150 or so you might as well put it into your 10/22 instead of buying a sub par gun that isn't as well built or won't do anymore than your existing 10/22.

My hunting, plinkin and occasional target 10/22:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/L_Killkenny/DSCN0756.jpg

But hey, don't let me talk you outta a second gun. The 597 is a solid recommendation and are generally more accurate than a box stock 10/22. It may still need some work to get consistent hits on the little ground squirrels at 75 yards though. Like I said the CZ semi is a winner but pricey. A new/different 10/22 build might actually cost less.

LK

johnbt
May 16, 2012, 11:18 AM
"Sub MOA is generally reserved for the upper end target guns and the bench rest records prove that. "

A mere sub-MOA gun - 0.4" or so - won't get you anywhere in rimfire benchrest. It's got to be way under.

As far as what sporter rifles will do, I have a Mountie, a Rem 541-S, a Sako Finnfire (the older Stoeger imported one, not Beretta's & a 1.5 ounce Jewell trigger), and a Cooper Custom Classic, so I'm not just repeating things I heard on the net or elsewhere. The Mountie is the worst of the bunch and it's no slacker, but it has had great sentimental value since my uncle gave it to me in the early 1960s. I have a CZ American too, but it's a WMR.

Speaking of rimfire benchrest, one of the ranges I belong to is owned by a man in the USRA Hall of Fame. Now there's a man who can shoot and build a gun.

L_Killkenny
May 16, 2012, 11:23 AM
John, you'll note that I edited this into my last post:

NBRSA World Record for 5 combined 5 shot groups (25 shots) with a sporter is .5369".

World record for ONE 5 shot groups is substantially less (around .13 for a sporter IIRC) but doing it consistantly is another matter.

LK

Picher
May 16, 2012, 05:25 PM
Check this out: http://proveit.www8.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/submissions/22lr/Picher-6-12-2000.jpg

The target shown in the above URL was shot with my 10-22 Deluxe in factory stock, Shilen barrel, trigger stop screw; otherwise, it's got all factory parts, many modified by me.

This shows what a 10-22 can do with some creative modifications. It can actually shoot with many good target rifles and still be a great plinker/hunting rifle. The average group size for all ten groups was .37" and was the best shot by a semi-auto and recorded on the "Prove-It" website for quite a while.

Instructions for doing the modifications can be found on RimfireCentral.com

Joe Chicago
May 16, 2012, 08:44 PM
I vote for the Marlin 60. It is essentially the same rifle as the 795, except with a 14 round tube magazine that does not interfere with how you hold the rifle, as the detachable magazine does on the 795. If you are not going to put a scope on it, I recommend Tech Sights aperture sights.

iamdb
May 16, 2012, 09:40 PM
@75 yards I'd go with .17hmr (less drop and more down range energy)
If you are set on .22lr then go with a scoped bolt action. $200-$300 on the rifle and $200 on scope and rings

I have a Marlin 981T tube fed bolt action with a bushnell elite 3200 scope. Rifle costs about $200 and shoots sub MOA out of the box with subsonic match ammo. Leaves money left over for a quality scope.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr84/tampadb/IMAG0080.jpg

This is a 1"x1" square at 50 yards with remington bulk. RWS match is alot smaller group
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr84/tampadb/IMAG0079.jpg

iamdb
May 16, 2012, 09:59 PM
Top that off with the fact that bolt actions rimfires are as boring as watching paint dry. Ignorance at it's finest ;) Nothing boring about taking an animals life. I do like the stock on your ruger though.

FYI... you don't have to be a pro to shoot sub moa groups with a sub $400 rifle.

Picher
May 17, 2012, 07:10 AM
FYI... you don't have to be a pro to shoot sub moa groups with a sub $400 rifle.

No, but it helps. It also helps to know how to tweak rifles to get the best out of them.

Or, maybe you could shoot "sub" moa groups from a "sub" $400 rifle, inside a "sub"marine? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

johnbt
May 17, 2012, 08:44 AM
http://nbrsa.org/sites/default/files/rimfire_records.htm

Looking at the NBRSA sporter records, I see Don Geraci shot a single 5-shot group in 2001 that measured .131".

I actually called him one evening at dinnertime (by accident, different time zone, etc.) because a man on benchrest central gave me a phone number and said this guy he knew probably knew the number of a guy who was selling a Jewell trigger for a Sako Finnfire. Great guy, he knew the man and I bought two Jewells.

Dang, look at the group Bill Myers shot in 1997. Five 5-shot groups at 100 yards... .7415"

I wish I could find the number he posted years ago. It was the world record for one 5-shot group at 100 yards. He was using a Rem 541-S.

mavracer
May 17, 2012, 10:10 PM
I'm not sure my 10/22 would bring home that many mere squirrels now that it wears a 20" butler creek barrel and a hogue stock wwiith a 3x9 scope than it did stock with a 2.5X scope.
I'd either do a bull bbl and trigger to your 10/22 or get a Savage bolt and throw some good glass on it and spend money on glass not gadgets when buying a scope. As to ammo with a 22 they are so finicky there's just not always ryme or reason to what a gun will like. Try a few different brands.

BPowderkeg
May 17, 2012, 11:10 PM
Best 22lr for small game hunting?

i believe a person has to be prejudiced to reply, for the older semi-autos i have a 1953 Remington M-550-1 with a little 4X scope on it, it cycles CB's just fine, off hand i can hit a ground squirrel in the head at 40 yds.

then, my more modern rifles the vote goes towards the M4 style carbines, first i have a TacSol dedicated carbine upper that is a tack driver, and two S&W M&P 15-22's, very accurate out to 50 yds., open/iron sights (actually a very hard plastic) with me as the shooter. :D

chargerlo7
May 17, 2012, 11:11 PM
I like to use the Savage model 64. Its fairly dead on accurate. my only complaint is the lack of Hi-Cap mags.:)

Picher
May 18, 2012, 06:50 AM
Regarding the NBRSA records: They are particularly relevant because they were done at sanctioned shooting matches.

My shooting on the Prove-it target with the 10-22 was done on a particularly calm morning with almost no wind or mirage. Still, 0.37" average for 10 consecutive 5-shot groups is remarkable for a semi-auto with a cheap 4.5-14X scope and factory (modified) trigger, etc. The Shilen barrel was fairly new and I doubt whether it would shoot as well now, since it's seen hundreds of thousands of rounds.

It was the only Prove-it target I'd shot with that rifle and I found it grueling to shoot that many carefully-aimed shots at one sitting.

JP

CountryUgly
May 18, 2012, 07:53 AM
have you checked out any of the AR variations in .22lr. The S&W version can now be had at most wally worlds for cheap and should be able to handle what you are wanting to do. Glad you have found an excuse to give the wife for buying a new rifle and I hope that whatever you choose you shoot the heck out of it. My new favorite .22 is an old Remington Fieldmaster my wife brought me home recently. It's a pump and not excatly what you are looking for but it is fun and mine is knocking caps off coke bottles at 50 yards with ease so it does fit your accuracy requirements and did I mention it is FUN.

Salmoneye
May 18, 2012, 07:55 AM
Any opinions on the best 22lr rifle for hunting?

One that shoots straight, and YOU can shoot well...

Mannlicher
May 18, 2012, 07:58 AM
I depend on my Marlin Model 39 Golden Mountie for small game hunting. Reliable, sturdy, accurate.
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt349/Knocky/Knocky%202011%20second%20half/byebyeblackbird.jpg

johnbt
May 18, 2012, 09:06 AM
"Regarding the NBRSA records: They are particularly relevant because they were done at sanctioned shooting matches."

The thing that amazes me about any match record (or even any match at all) is that the shooters didn't get to pick the weather, the wind, the time of day or anything. They had to show up and figure out how to make the best of the conditions. You can't sit and wait for things to improve when the clock is running.

John

skoro
May 18, 2012, 09:12 AM
To me, a rifle for hunting has to be accurate, reliable, it has to be very strong but somewhat lightweight, and preferably semi-auto.

I've owned and shot various 22lr semiautos over the years. The one I like best is the one I've owned for 23 years now: Remington 552 Speedmaster. No, it can't get the latest fad tacticool add-ons like the 10/22, so if that's important, read no further.

I have a Bushnell 3-9 Sportsman scope mounted on it. Accuracy is very good and very consistent with good ammo. (Just don't feed it Remington 22lr ammo) It seems to run best on Federal Automatch, but does well with Winchester Super-X , CCI Mini-Mags, and Aguila also. I keep mine very clean, but have seen some that still ran well with unbelievable layers of crud built up in the action.

Just my 2 cents. ;)

bbqbob51
May 18, 2012, 05:14 PM
My Remington 597 is plenty accurate to do what you want. I originally paid $149.99 for it and later upgraded it with a Nikon Prostaff BDC 3-9x40 scope. That was on sale at Cabelas for $159 with a Nikon $30 rebate and my Cabelas club points I paid around $80 for it. At 100 feet I can do less than quarter sized groupings. I really haven't shot further than that with the 597 but want to get out to the range and try it out at longer distances.
For squirrel hunting you could also go more old school and get yourself a Henry lever action .22. I can split cards with mine at 50 feet with open sights. Personally, I would never scope a lever action. It just doesn't look right to me!

baddarryl
May 18, 2012, 07:27 PM
Senior Member

Join Date: March 13, 2011
Posts: 236
@75 yards I'd go with .17hmr (less drop and more down range energy)
If you are set on .22lr then go with a scoped bolt action. $200-$300 on the rifle and $200 on scope and rings

I have a Marlin 981T tube fed bolt action with a bushnell elite 3200 scope. Rifle costs about $200 and shoots sub MOA out of the box with subsonic match ammo. Leaves money left over for a quality scope.



This is a 1"x1" square at 50 yards with remington bulk. RWS match is alot smaller group


I have the same exact rifle except with a lesser Simmons scope and will vouch for that.

zulthor
May 18, 2012, 10:38 PM
For around $70 you can get your trigger/hammer upgraded on your 10/22 so you should have around a 2lb trigger if done correctly.

With that you're 10/22 should be pretty accurate.

ojibweindian
May 19, 2012, 05:26 AM
@75 yards I'd go with .17hmr (less drop and more down range energy)
If you are set on .22lr then go with a scoped bolt action. $200-$300 on the rifle and $200 on scope and rings

I have a Marlin 981T tube fed bolt action with a bushnell elite 3200 scope. Rifle costs about $200 and shoots sub MOA out of the box with subsonic match ammo. Leaves money left over for a quality scope.

I have a Marlin 881T that pretty much does the same thing.

Horseface
May 19, 2012, 09:48 AM
My 10-22 has harvested lots of small game. Great weapon.

dalegribble
May 19, 2012, 10:33 AM
semi auto and 22 caliber? my experience with an out of the box semi auto 22 is limited to 2...no acutally 3 brands of 22's if you count my 22 mag. my experience with the guns i own is that all would do well out of the box, with open sights out to 100 yards and be exceptional from 25 to 50 yards where i believe most game is found.

i have 2 ruger 10/22's and both will fit the bill out to 100 yards with iron sights. i keep one with a mounted scope which would be even better at longer ranges. i alos have a marlin model 60 that will fit the bill, i keep that with just iron sights. both of these guns have proven themselves for years, straight from the box without any mods. finally i have an h&r model 700 22 mag. i like this for the fast shooting at longer distance. it works very well with iron sights but i have added a scope for better longer range shooting.

i have found the guns i mentioned sufficent for plinking and small game hunting. try some different types of ammo to see what works best in your gun. my guns might not be sub moa but i know they are sub minute of squirrel or rabbit and until i take up competitive shooting i guess they will do for me.

mr.t7024
May 20, 2012, 06:50 PM
I agree with Joe Chicago& Old Grump.My go to gun is always my Revelation which is a Marlin 60. I also feel that right out of the box the Marlin 60 is more accurate than the 10-22. :) Cliff

smitherians
May 21, 2012, 01:38 AM
Go for a marlin model 795 with tech sights its a great setup.

justjim75
May 21, 2012, 09:12 PM
if all goes well i will be picking up a savage mark II btvs this friday.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_62_975/products_id/43580

Bamashooter
May 21, 2012, 11:17 PM
I have killed squirrels, rabbits, racoons, and one beaver with my 10/22. I have also killed squirrel with my Henry .22. They may not shoot .3247691'' groups but they both seem to kill game with no problem. No modifications to either rifle. Minute of critter is good enough for me.

johnwilliamson062
May 21, 2012, 11:52 PM
marlin 981TS

Picher
May 22, 2012, 08:34 AM
A Fish and Game Biologist asked me to mount and sight-in a scope on his older, box-stock 10-22. I found that it shot close to 1/2" groups at 40 yards with high-speed ammo, which is not the norm, especially for newer ones.

He tells me that he hasn't missed a squirrel with his rifle since I worked on it, but what's more remarkable is that he usually aims for, and hits them in the EYE!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I've found that putting a good match-chambered barrel on a 10-22 makes a big difference in accuracy. I did an accuracy job, including bolt mods, trigger, pillar-bedding, on a friend's new "stainless" 10-22 Deluxe, but couldn't get it to group under 1 1/4" at 50 yards, even with target ammo. After installing a stainless-fluted GM barrel, but doing no further accurizing, it now shoots sub-1/2" at 50 yards. Furthermore, I like the fluted barrel for hunting, since the weight saved helps the carry and balance.

Backwoodsboy
May 22, 2012, 09:35 AM
+1 for the 597, I have had one for 10 years and no problems at all while harvesting numerous squirrels and rabbits.

BoneDigger
May 22, 2012, 11:17 AM
Marlin 60 for me. Or a Marlin 39A. I do not like the 10-22 unless you want to put extra money into accurizing it, etc. off the shelf, the Marlin 60 generally will out shoot the 10-22. Neither compares to the 39, but then the Marlin will easily shoot MOS (Minute of Squirrel).

Todd


Sent via Todd's IPhone using Tapatalk.

Bamashooter
May 23, 2012, 12:14 AM
I have 2 ruger 10/22's and I have shot many others and have never seen one that wasnt at least capable of hitting drink cans at will from 25-75yrds depending on who was shooting, their skill level, and quality of ammo. The two I have will shoot quarter sized groups with good ammo and a rest. Both are factory. One is factory with a tapco stock. I have never seen one that needed upgrades to be accurate. I have seen them become more accurate after upgrades. For small game hunting any 10/22 with good ammo and a shooter that knows his rifle can put meat on the table easily. Not saying its the best but more than capable of doing the job.