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View Full Version : Ballistic difference in 458 Socom and 45/70 Govt?


Deja vu
April 21, 2012, 12:04 AM
I have been a big bore fan as along as I have been able to handle one. I grew up shooting a 450 marlin and a 45/70 trap door. the second rifle I bought (after the required ;) Ruger 10/22) was a 45/70 marlin GG.

A few months back my brother asked my why I did not have any "big bore" semiautomatics. I told him that there is nothing like a 45/70 in a semiautomatic platform.

He pointed me toward the 458 Socom. I see that it is easy to suppress (I all ready have a suppressor on order for a Marlin 45/70SBL so it could share the same suppressor. I all so have started casting my own bullets so I could use the same bullets too.

I all so like that because it uses a magazine I can use pointy bullets, as a lever guy this is cool to me!

So I am thinking of eventually adding one to my collection but I still have a hard time finding out balistically how it compairs to a hot 45/70 from a marlin. How fast can it push a 325 or 405 grain bullet?

p.s. I dont want this to become a war I am just really interested in what people are getting from there Socoms (especially when reloading).

mete
April 21, 2012, 02:54 AM
Why the obsession with hot loads ? As I remember the SOCOM will match factory 300 gr 45-70 loads. That makes and excellent deer/black bear round.I doubt that it would take the hot Marlin loads .In fact those loads make for uncomfortable shooting for most of us.

CCCLVII
April 21, 2012, 04:00 PM
I can understand the obsession with hot loads. I have the standard Marlin 1895 and I love to feed it hot loads. Some thing about a 350 grain load moving at 2300FPS.

I think for the equivilant load the 458 is near the trap door level for a 45/70, that means that lever actions will be hotter than the 458 socom and that the modern rifle (such as a #1) will be a lot hotter than the 458.

The 458 is a great round though and other than the great bears of Alaska I would trust it for any game on this side of the Atlantic.

BlueTrain
April 23, 2012, 06:08 AM
Are there even any "pointy bullets" for these cartridges, including the .45-70?

jmr40
April 23, 2012, 01:59 PM
Are there even any "pointy bullets" for these cartridges, including the .45-70?

http://www.hornady.com/store/.452-45-CAL-c-1073/

http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.458-325-gr-FTX/

Yep, they make them, but I'd prefer to stay with a standard bullet profile.

BlueTrain
April 23, 2012, 03:13 PM
So they do; so they do.

Deja vu
April 24, 2012, 04:41 PM
I was told to do my own home work so I did and this is what I came up with. :D
458 Socom:

What type of velocity can I expect?

Velocity will vary from rifle to rifle and obviously also depend on the bullet that is being loaded. However, some of the typical velocities from a 16" barreled upper are as follows:

300 grain bullet – 1800 to 2000 fps (higher has been recorded)

400 grain bullet – 1600 to 1800 fps

500 grain bullet – 980 to 1300 fps

600 grain bullet – 1000 fps

http://www.teppojutsu.com/458FAQ.htm#_What_type_of_velocity_can_I_expect

I know from my 45/70 with a 500 grain bullet I can get about 1550, 405 grain bullet I can get about 1900 and from a 325 grain bullet I can get 2075 so it looks pretty close. Too bad there is no loads for the 458 Socom in the Hodgdon reloading page. It would be nice to compare apples to apples. This is all so with an 18 inch barrel, the Socom is for a 16 inch barrel so I would say that they are very close.

It looks like to me the Socom is close to the marlin loads especially in the lower weight bullets.

The Ruger #1 loads are significantly hotter with a 2500 FPS load for a 300 grain bullet.

CCCLVII
April 25, 2012, 09:15 AM
wow those are a lot hotter than I thought the Socom could be. I admit I am impressed.

Where do you get the lead for those big 600 grain bullets? I would like to try some in my 458 WM.

Flintknapper
April 25, 2012, 01:31 PM
Where do you get the lead for those big 600 grain bullets? I would like to try some in my 458 WM.

Hornady used to make a 600 gr RN in .458 cal, but no longer offers it.

Corbon offered the 600 gr. bullet as a loaded cartridge for the SOCOM for a period of time, but the heaviest "factory" loaded round available now (that I am aware of) is the 500 gr. Hornady.

For the hand-loader, there is a plethora of bullets available for the SOCOM, anything from a 100 gr (yes 100 grain) aluminum bullet (from LeHigh) to bullets weighing over 500 grains. Literally, dozens of choices, Soft Points, Solids, Hard Cast, Controlled expansion, Armor Piercing, Tracers, you name it!

Even factory rounds are loaded in good variety by SBR (Southern Ballistic Research).