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jason41987
April 19, 2012, 09:22 AM
hello everyone... im looking to spend some money ive saved on a new rifle, partially from neccessity (hunting) and partially from paranoia (the world seems to be getting worse daily)... so im looking to buy a general purpose rifle, useful for shtf scenarios, survival scenarios, or general outdoor and recreational use...

i used to collect a few, but have had to sell of most due to financial issues (college related stuff). but im still a rather indecisive individual so i was just looking to get feedback and opions as to what you would think the best choice would be to have just one rifle, and since im really open to just about any option, it makes the decision that much harder.. but there is some criteria ive settled on

-id like reliability and accuracy
-preferably a full length stock vs seperate furniture
-would like something with more downrange energy than .223, but most .223 rifles can be converted to 6.5 or 6.8, etc, so ill leave that open
-bolt actions are OK
-semis are OK
-have owned, and learned that i do not like AK or SKS
-delayed blowback, long-stroke gas piston, or bolt action is what id prefer

so.... what are your personal suggestions to match this?

L_Killkenny
April 19, 2012, 09:35 AM
You didn't bring up budget, terrain, what you want to hunt, etc all of which will have a huge bearing on suggestions but you could do a lot worse than a lever action in .30-30, .357 or .44 for an public friendly, dual purpose carbine. And of coarse you have many AR options out there but you'll want to watch state regs to make sure you can hunt with them. Platform aside .243, .260 and and 7mm-08 are tops for cartridges IMO.

LK

jason41987
April 19, 2012, 10:04 AM
budget id say $1500... depending on the rifle... im looking for one rifle to fill many needs, so a little more cost is ok

as for lever action, i doubt id go with a pistol cartridge.. 357 mag does in fact have 30-30 energy at the muzzle, but due to the poor aerodynamics of the bullet it does lose velocity fast, and drop quicker.. so id like to avoid pistol cartridges unless i was looking for something sub 150 yards

missesalot
April 19, 2012, 11:34 AM
I would buy another cz americanin one of the short mags!

Scharfschuetzer
April 19, 2012, 12:02 PM
With your budget, you could easily get into a very nice used Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 (or Model 94 for that matter).

While they don't have the bells and whistles of the latest rifles, they are rock solid, have real walnut stocks with hand checkering, have real blued steel, controled feeding and are as accurate as any hunting rifle made today.

The common calibres are 243, 308, 270 and 30/06. A few were made in 257 Robers and other calibres, but they are generally locked up in collector's vaults. In any used rifle made in 30/06, check the bore well, as many of these were fired with corrosive military ammo and put away without cleaning.

The standard Pre-64s don't have an ounce of non-ferris metal in them, while the Featherweights have an aluminium trigger guard, floor plate and but plate.

So why consider a used rifle? They not only will provided a few generations of shooting pleasure if cared for properly, but with only a finite number made, they are also a great investment and represent the golden era of American gun making.

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o635/Scharfschuetzer/Model70s-2800-80.jpg

George Hill
April 19, 2012, 12:30 PM
Take your budget and use half of it for the Scope. If not more. The rifle is only half of the equation. A 700 SPS is a good start but top it with at least a Nikon Monarch if not a Zeiss for best results.

hhunter318
April 19, 2012, 12:43 PM
Will you be reloading or just shooting factory ammo?

jason41987
April 19, 2012, 12:58 PM
well, im looking for something for more shtf than hunting/survival... about the only thing id consider used would be an M1 garand, or the M1 carbine, but the carbine is very short range... the bullets have way too much drag... though they do weigh less than an M4 does... ive always preferred rifles with the full wooden stocks vs those without.. they seem to be lighter too, ever compared a 22 inch garands weight against other similar size 30 caliber rifles?.. it weighs less than the FAL, G3, heck.. weighs less than a thompson M1928

one more thing though.. i dont intend to use a scope... i figure if i cant see it with my pretty decent eyesight, i probably shouldnt be shooting at it

but yeah.. i was looking for something more along the lines of a battle rifle first, hunting or survival second and am only considering a bolt action because i do have a very large amount of practice behind them, and can cycle them fairly fast if needed

and to hunter.. i enjoy reloading, but would like to be able to walk into any store and pick up ammo if needed

BigMikey76
April 19, 2012, 01:04 PM
I agree that a lever gun sounds like a good option. Slower than a semi, but faster than a bolt (I know there are folks who can work a bolt like lightning, but that takes a lot of practice). 30-30 is a good caliber, in my opinion. It will let you hunt plenty of tasty critters, and should do nicely for home defense, as well.
If you prefer a bolt, I like the 7mm08 for a "do all" cartridge, but cost can be a factor. If ammo cost and availability are major issues for you, I would recommend .30-06 or .308. Ammo for them can be found pretty much anywhere at reasonable prices.
I don't have much to say on semi-autos, since I have never had one (unless you want to count my .22). I would say you should check your local hunting laws for limitations on what is legal. There may be a limit on magazine capacity, for example, or simply a rule against those "evil black rifles." If they are OK, others here can recommend some nifty calibers for you, but .308 is still my recommendation because of cost and availability of ammo.
Of course, if you plan to reload, limitations based on cost and availability are largely moot. You will also find that many calibers will have greatly expanded versatility if you reload.

BigMikey76
April 19, 2012, 01:06 PM
Also, with a budget of $1500, you could afford to get one bolt as a dedicated hunter and a semi for SHTF, especially if you are not going to put scopes on them. Is there a reason you are limited to only one rifle, or is it just a personal preference?

chadstrickland
April 19, 2012, 01:06 PM
Check out the Springfield armory m1a GI model. Should fit your budget.

hhunter318
April 19, 2012, 01:12 PM
Ever looked much into the Springfield M21 or an M14? Or something of that nature? Might be a hair over price range but i'm sure you could find something fitting. With your criteria that sounds like a winner. I believe they come standard with the peep sight. My girlfriends grandfather won several matches with an M14 with peep sights while in his Advanced Marksmanship Unit in Berlin and California. And .308 Win./7.62 NATO is an all-around go getter. Good luck with your decision. ;)

rezmedic54
April 19, 2012, 01:39 PM
Buy a Savage best bang for your buck. Why pay a grand for a name when you can pay 600 for a Tac driver.

jason41987
April 19, 2012, 01:40 PM
one-rifle is a preference, i will be moving around a lot in the near future and dont want to have to transport a small arsenal, but one rifle..

i might just get a USGI M1 garand barreled action and trigger group, maybe not in pristine condition, but one i could rebuild, refinish, maybe a new barrel with fresh rifling... and ive spent years carving wood for musical instruments, so i could get a block of walnut and hand-carve a replacement stock for it... would give me a project too which is a plus.. or an M1A

other options ive thought about so far was an mini-14 rebarreled to one of the .223 size calibers, like 6.8 spc, or one of the 6.5 options

i also like the old 1903 springfield, and 30-40 kragg rifle, but have also thought about a new remington 700 action in a 1903-esque stock

BigMikey76
April 19, 2012, 02:05 PM
If you will be moving around a lot, I would recommend looking into the laws in the places you will be going, if possible. What is legal where you are now may cause problems in your next locale. When in doubt, tactical style rifles are more likely to be problematic, legally speaking, so you may want to focus your search on things like older Mil-surp stuff. If you are looking for new, a Mini 14 might work for you. Because they have a more traditional rifle style grip, they are exempt from many of the "evil rifle" laws. They are also fairly compact, which would make transporting it a bit easier.

jason41987
April 19, 2012, 02:39 PM
i actually prefer the tradition style stocks vs the vertical pistol grip... just feels better, more secure to me... so thats not a problem

m&p45acp10+1
April 19, 2012, 02:40 PM
I am in the camp of buy two rifles, and two rifle hard case.

A Mosin Nagant 91/30 can be had for under $175 buy two span cans of ammo for it. Then add a Dragunov semi auto. Take the scope off if you wish to it has irons on it as well. That would leave you plenty of room in the budget to pay range fees with.

gak
April 19, 2012, 02:56 PM
I like the ubiquitous .30-30 lever idea. If you're "focused" on just open/iron sights, then you won't miss not having a (decently mounted) scope on a Pre-64 94 Win. Slab sided styling carries in the woods like a dream, and quick to bring up to target. Also feed-as-you-go capability. New-ish Hornady Leverlution ammo extends its effective hunting range out a bit. If you think you might scope some day, I'll allow you could do a lot worse than an older Marlin 336--or a very early 80s (pre safety) Win 94 AE. .30-30 ammo's everywhere. Most underrated round ever IMO, made more versatile yet by the flex-tip Hornady spitzers..

Mini 30 comes to mind as well--basically an "auto .30-30" with the right bullet selection--amongst autos that still have wood furniture. I'd ideally pick a Mini 14 in 6.8 but understand Ruger's discontinued (?)--can always get used but...--but off-the-shelf ammo wouldn't be as easy as the x39.

As excellent as they otherewise are, the M1A/Garand family are real lumps IMO, as your "one gun," but they're obviously a choice with many merits. Between the two I'd pick the M1A for its larger mag cap and reloading/quick changeout configuration (your shtf concern) and .308 chambering.


Bolts? They don't quite effectively address shtf scenarios as well as the others, but a 20"-22" CZ or (discontinued) Remington Mountain Rifle DM in 7mm-08 and detach mag whould be a great all-round choice.

BigMikey76
April 19, 2012, 03:14 PM
Based on the clarifications you have made as far as what you are looking for, and the fact that you prefer a traditional grip to a pistol style grip, I would say go for the mini 14. It comes in .223, so the ammo cost and availability issues are covered. You can get small and large mags, so it has versatility for compliance in different locales. It is fairly compact, and has a reputation for being rugged, so it will be good for travel, and it is well within your stated price range, which will allow you to spend more on ammo. Seems like it addresses all of your criteria, you just have to be prepared for all of the mini 14 haters who will give you crap. :rolleyes:

darkroommike
April 19, 2012, 06:26 PM
Plus one on the Mini-14 but also consider the CZ 527 carbine in either .223 or 7.62x39.

Markwondi
April 19, 2012, 06:38 PM
I'm partial to the new FN/Winchester model 70's.

As for caliber, how about a 7mm-08? Good round capable of most all of your hunting needs.

tahunua001
April 19, 2012, 07:10 PM
well personally I would say that everyone needs 3 rifles in their collection. an AR15 in the standard 5.56/223 chamber for when society breaks down(such discussions are not encouraged on here BTW) but since you want more umph than 223 I will fore-go that recommendation and move to #2 on the list is a 22lr which is actually a lot more versatile than you would think and you can carry a LOT of ammo on your person but again, you have power requirements so I will move on to my #3 slot, the Mosin Nagant 1891 chambered in it's original 7.62x54r. it is the cheapest bolt action rifle money can buy at the moment and the ammo is around 20 cents a round making it even cheaper to shoot than 223 without having to give up stopping power.the 91/30 is a bit on the long side for use as a home defense gun but there were a number of carbine versions made over the years, many of which are quite common.

now most, if not all of your ammo would be full metal jackets in the 147 grain area which is still more than enough to drop a hog, wolf, most deer and the inevitable 300 pound body building crackhead that seems to lurk behind every corner over at the handgun threads. for anything larger though, hornady has a few options. they have a number of reloading bullets in .310 from ballistic tip to soft point which would work great for blackbear and elk sized game, if you don't want to reload then hornady also has hollowpoint 174gr ammo that will drop just about anything short of a bison but it's close to $40 a box.

all in all a mosin nagant would make a great bug out gun or hunting rifle and with a lot of the ammo available coming in sealed spam cans, the shelf life on ammo is probably greater than the shooter.

chadio
April 19, 2012, 07:17 PM
M1A for the win

Hairbag
April 19, 2012, 09:28 PM
I know you said you don't like AK's but have you considered a AK74? 5.45x39 low recoil accurate enough and VERY cheap ammo that you afford to stock pile in case the world turns to shyt. Arsenal AK74 $800-900 over 2000rds of 5.45x39 in sealed spam cans for $250.00 Heck, that's cheaper than 22 magnum! Here's mine with a 45rd bulgarian circle 10 mag.

Mr_Raw
April 19, 2012, 10:41 PM
Just throwing this out there but what about a SMLE, big enough to take down anything from crack heads to black bears, shorter then a 91/30 so it's nice for in the house, it's been proven reliable (this I know for a fact).

I don't know about ammo availability state side mainly because I live in Canada, but I know that every hardware store in my neighborhood has at least 1 case of ammo in the ware house.

But as I said "Just throwing this out there"

tahunua001
April 19, 2012, 10:49 PM
I would second that. my SMLE is by far my favorite rifle. I bought about 2400 rounds of ammo(a lifetime supply for me out of a bolt gun) out of a friends basement for a song so I have no idea of current pricing or availability of 303 brit but I can say that I am having a rough time deciding whether I want to take it out for blackbear this year or let one of my newer rifles have all the fun.

dead accurate, dead reliable, super fun to shoot and can drop anything short of a bison in north america.

jason41987
April 20, 2012, 02:52 AM
ive had a nagant, still do, but i wouldnt rely on it for long term... if you cant make ammo for that thing then youre restricted to surplus... i just havent been able to find quality ammo in stores around here for it.. so id probably stick to a more common caliber... .223 is a bit lacking, so id probably step it up to a .308 or .30-06 either in a bolt gun (remington 700 or m1903 springfield).. or more likely i seem to be settling more on the garand/M1A idea... probably more so on the garand since i really do like the en block clips for it... so much lighter and easier to pack ammo with than box magazines

ive thought about a mini-14 as well, would be more interested if i could find one in 6.8mm which seems to be a growing favorite for an all-purpose round, am i wrong?...

so ill probably go garand, or take a remington 700 and make a WWII style stock for it myself to give it an old utilitarian look... but if i could be absolutely convinced that 6.8SPC or .300 blackout had a legit future in shorter action rifles, i would gladly convert a mini-14

nothing wrong with lee enfields.. they are absolutely beautiful, smooth... one of the best bolt actions out there... but im patriotic enough to take a springfield or krag rifle instead

jason41987
April 20, 2012, 03:15 AM
you know.. i may consider 45-70 or .30-30 depending... i like the old winchesters and marlins.... how straight of a trajectory do you get when using the pointed flex tip bullets in 45-70? seems it would greatly improve the aerodnamics of the bullet, causing it to drop less and shoot straighter downrange, am i wrong to assume that?

jason41987
April 20, 2012, 07:05 AM
currently.. im trying to see if its possible to get 9x25 dillon in a carbine of some sort.. close to 900fpe at the muzzle from a pistol, which is REALLY hot.. if it could be fitted with a pointed bullet and chambered in a carbine youd have something that would perform really close to 5.56mm, but be so much lighter to carry, and make a perfect outdoor rifle too

tahunua001
April 20, 2012, 09:04 AM
my brother in law is always playing around with goofy loads for his 45-70. so far he swears by the ballistic tips.

my best friend hunts with a nice 30-30 lever gun and I've witnessed him taking a 200 pound whitetail at over 200 yards(a shot the ballistics experts here say is impossible), he shot it twice but once we got to field dressing him it was obvious that the second shot was not necessary. so I would say if he can land 2 shots on a moving target at 200 yards then a 30-30 would also make a good anti badguy/homedefense/hunting rifle.

as for 30-06, I have a low serial m1903(yes I know, taboo to shoot but I do it anyway). it is in beautiful condition and works like a dream. if you can get one with an original military stock you have an entire cleaning kit stuffed inside the stock through a hinged opening in the buttplate. the absorb recoil great and now that I've found out how the sight post works it is pretty darn accurate for a rifle that's seen 2 world wars and is older than my grandparents. it's not really the most simple design to figure out and to tell the truth I see no practical purpose in some of the features on it but it does the trick, I'm having trouble deciding whether to take the 1903 or my enfield out for bear this spring.

as for 308, I have little personal experience with it, I've shot it a few times and thought that it was pretty similar to a 30-30 in terms of recoil and accuracy at 100 yards. never did shoot beyond that but I'll guarantee for hunting application that it will kill elk and anything smaller.

jason41987
April 20, 2012, 09:22 AM
the .308 is just a shorter, but higher pressured cartridge with ballistics the same as a .30-06, was just to get the same performance from a physically smaller cartridge (same way a 9mm equals the energy of a 45acp, while being smaller)...

as for military surplus rifles, i would prefer a project, so a barreled action is all i would require to install new springs, refinish, maybe replace a couple parts here and there... and with my years of carving wood by hand i would have absolutely no problem carving a new, military style stock

jason41987
April 21, 2012, 12:21 AM
seriously though.. is it an odd thing that i think full auto is a waste, and dont like vertical pistol grips and telescoping stocks?

BigMikey76
April 21, 2012, 12:40 PM
is it an odd thing that i think full auto is a waste, and dont like vertical pistol grips and telescoping stocks?

Not odd at all. There are many out there who like the tactical rifles, but also a lot who prefer more traditional styles. I personally don't care for most of the tactical style rifles, either. The one exception, for me, is the Beretta CX4. I think it looks pretty darn nice, though their price pretty much dictates that I will never have one. Beyond that, I will take a bolt or lever gun over an AR every time. It all comes down to personal preference.

tahunua001
April 21, 2012, 05:21 PM
not to hijack the thread but I agree to a certain degree. I love nothing more than a good bolt action and thumbhole stocks are very nice and comfortable for me but they tend to be prohibitive if I want to loan it out to a friend or family member since a surprising number of my gun buddies shoot left handed. the telescoping stocks are good if a shorter person is behind it and vertical pristol grips are fully ambidextrous.

however I would never slap a set of the tacticool furniture on a M1 or SKS even if I had the parts laying around.

Big Pard
April 21, 2012, 11:07 PM
If you are thinking about a lever action then you may want to consider a Browning BLR since is has a detachable magazine which allows for shooting more aerodynamic bullets of any kind and is available in many calibers. I currently own one (243win) and have owned several and they were all quite accurate. Browning also chambers the BLR in 450 Marlin With that being said, I am most certainly not trying to belittle the Marlin 336's or Winchester 94's.

jason41987
April 22, 2012, 06:53 AM
if i were to consider a bolt action, it would have to be an older military style.. probably springfield 1903... for lever actions though i almost definitely go winchester 92 for pistol caliber, or one in 45-70

taylorce1
April 22, 2012, 10:58 AM
im looking to spend some money ive saved on a new rifle, partially from neccessity (hunting) and partially from paranoia (the world seems to be getting worse daily)... so im looking to buy a general purpose rifle, useful for shtf scenarios, survival scenarios, or general outdoor and recreational use...

but there is some criteria ive settled on

-id like reliability and accuracy
-preferably a full length stock vs seperate furniture
-would like something with more downrange energy than .223, but most .223 rifles can be converted to 6.5 or 6.8, etc, so ill leave that open
-bolt actions are OK
-semis are OK
-have owned, and learned that i do not like AK or SKS
-delayed blowback, long-stroke gas piston, or bolt action is what id prefer

I would agree with some of your criteria but think some of it you should throw out the window, KISS the whole process. I'd loose the full stock option and forget 6.5 and 6.8 options as well they don't do anything for you. For me they would be ammunition availability, simplicity/reliability, and optics as well as iron sights.

1. Most important ammunition availability. .223, .308, and .30-06 are the most available and commonly found cartridges in the United States. LE and Military commonly use the .223 and .308 and these are my fist choices in chamberings, and because of the popularity for hunting the .30-06 would be third. Forget about 7.62X54, 7.62X39 and .303 they just aren't as available as the previous three at every place that sells ammunition. Plus if you are going to keep componets on hand to reload as well, you have far more options in .224 and .308 bullets. And forget about changing the .223 rifle to a 6.8 or 6.5 caliber as it wouldn't be practical in your "paranoia (the world seems to be getting worse daily)... so im looking to buy a general purpose rifle, useful for shtf scenarios, survival scenarios" the .223 will work.

2. Simple rifles that are capable of 1-2 MOA accuracy with a wide variety of ammunition, that are easy to repair, field strip/clean and proven reliable designs. Most simple would be a bolt action hunting rifle like a sporter M98 or clone (commercial Mauser, M70 Pre-64/Classic, FN SPR/PBR, and Ruger M77). Keep the simple two stage military trigger, don't add an enclosed trigger that could gum or freeze up. Add a spare firing pin and spring kit and you have all the parts you need to fix the action, plus it doesn't take up much room. The bolt action will be the lightest to carry as long as your not trying to lug around a Varmint/Tactical rifle.

First choice semi-auto and one you have to consider is the AR style of rifles because of their simplicity and parts availability. M1A style rifles would be next including the Mini-14. High capacity magazines for the AR style rifles are easier to find than the ones for the Mini.

The M1 Garand you like would be my last choice because the En-Bloc system is inferior to the detachable magazines of the AR or M1A style rifles. Plus there is factory ammunition out there that could possibly put it out of operation since it is too high of pressure for the M1 to handle. It is the heaviest to carry of all the rifles as well. Then there is the ability to add optics to them easily, not many M1's have this capability compared to the other styles of rifles I mentioned.

3. The addition of optics to your rifle choices. I know you said you didn't want optics but if they increase your chances of making a first shot count why not add them? Keep the optics simple as well like a fixed 4 or 6 power scope. Make sure it is quick detachable and the mounts, and your bases don't interfere with your back up sights when you have the scope removed. Make sure whatever optics you choose they are known to be rugged and reliable. I know most hunting rifles don't come with iron sights but any competent gunsmith can add a set to your rifle and I think you could still come in inside your budget.

jason41987
April 23, 2012, 02:08 AM
enblock is not inferior... significantly less weight than a magazine, no springs to deal with, and it ejects itself... the only limiting factor is capacity...

anyway, what kind of accuracy could one expect from an 1894 winchester, 1886 winchester, the browning, or any of the marlins?... just kind of curious if they really are capable of bolt-action accuracy or not.. 1" groups at 100 would be nice

taylorce1
April 23, 2012, 08:43 AM
enblock is not inferior... significantly less weight than a magazine, no springs to deal with, and it ejects itself... the only limiting factor is capacity

Can you swap out a half empty en-bloc as easily as a detachable magazine? It was a great system at the time and the M1 is an awesome rifle. There are tradeoffs that the OP is gong to have to weigh to figure out what will fill his needs. There are just better choices out there than the M1 if you stick to the OP's scenario IMO.

jason41987
April 23, 2012, 12:26 PM
yes you can swap out a half empty enblock.. theres a button you press that pops the mag out.. or you can top it off with a couple lose rounds

jason41987
April 23, 2012, 01:06 PM
if i were to go with a bolt action... what would be the best new action to build a custom rifle from?

taylorce1
April 23, 2012, 02:24 PM
You missed the "as easily " part. I know you can top off or remove a partially empty en-bloc, but I still say you can't do it as quick, easy or as efficient as a detachable magazine. YMMV but I find it is easier to manipulate an M1A or AR than an M1.

tahunua001
April 23, 2012, 02:48 PM
probably a howa, weatherby vanguards are pretty much just rebranded howas but cheaper so either of those would be a good platform to build from. remington 700s are really good too but from what I understand they get to be a pain in the pooper when you start getting into rebarreling them and such

taylorce1
April 23, 2012, 06:00 PM
probably a howa, weatherby vanguards are pretty much just rebranded howas but cheaper so either of those would be a good platform to build from. remington 700s are really good too but from what I understand they get to be a pain in the pooper when you start getting into rebarreling them and such

More gunsmiths will rebarrel a M700 easier than a Howa/Vanguard, and the Rem 700 is the most cloned action of any out there. Remington's are great actions to build off of by I still stand by my previous post on reliable bolt actions. I'd build one off of a M98 Mauser or commercial Mauser, Ruger M77, or Pre-64 or Classic M70 Winchester

jason41987
April 24, 2012, 10:41 AM
does anyone make a new m98 mauser action anymore?.. if so, who?..but... i would like to stick with american made products only if i can... i like the ruger as well, specially the scout model, would it be possible to find a stripped receiver/bolt for a project, or would i have to buy a complete rifle?

taylorce1
April 24, 2012, 12:09 PM
Zastava still makes a 98 action that is affordable, but a little roughly finished. Granite Mountain and Saterlee Arms make custom 98 actions but your budget won't cover the cost of the action. Then you have Ruger M77 and Winchester M70 that are similar to a 98 Mauser. Montana Rifle Co makes a custom action similar to the M70 but again you'll blow your total budget just buying the action. I don't personally have any experience with the custom actions mentioned, nor Kimberly rifles which again is similar to the M70.

Check online auctions like gunbroker and you might be able to find a receiver or barreled action. More than likely it will be about the same cost in the long run to buy a complete rifle.

jason41987
April 24, 2012, 01:14 PM
after looking at my options.. im liking the idea of the "scout" rifle... a short, open sighted bolt action fed with stripper clips or a box magazine... wouldnt mind basing it off a mauser or remington 700 action... but these stripped receivers are just way overpriced... umm, i dont really want to go with an older military action because it seems theyre longer actions, and id like to go with a short action... i can purchase M1903 springfield blueprints online (never been able to find 98 mauser prints)...

if i could find large ring mauser prints id prefer to go that route... modify the plans for a "short action" length for .308... maybe see if i can fit a fixed 10 round double stack mag... and carve the stock myself... that would be a fun project.. end result would be a "scout" type rifle...

taylorce1
April 24, 2012, 05:02 PM
Just buy the Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/73924) you've been looking at and save your money left over for ammunition, spare magazines and optics. You'll probably have enough money left from your budget to get a good bi-pod and shooting sling to go along with the rifle. With a retail price about half of your budget you can pick up some pretty nice accessories to go with the rifle.

stu925
April 25, 2012, 07:52 PM
If I were looking for an all around general purpose rifle, I'd look long and hard at the Ruger Gunsite rifle. I think I'd put the scope in the standard location instead of the scout location, but that's just me.

Stu

Rifleman 173
April 25, 2012, 08:24 PM
Just for grins and to make all the other kids on your block envious, go with a S&W AR47 rifle. It is an AR set up to use AK magazines and shoot the 7.62 X 39 cartridge. That's right, boys and girls, an AR rifle that uses the stronger and more dependable AK-47 style magazines. You get all the pluses of both rifles in one package. You couldn't ask for something that will make all the kids on the range go OOOOHHH and AAAAHHHH faster than this little jewel.