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shabodah
September 20, 2011, 05:18 PM
Alright, I'm a bit new here and am trying to learn more about the different S&W autos out there. In the thread "45 recommendations" someone posted a nifty explanation of how the model numbers were assigned on these guns, which is very handy. I wonder if all the combinations were actually produced? I've done a little digging, because I like the frame-mounted decocker, and I haven't found a listing for a 4530, nor a 4533. I did find a 4526, but, they seem to be pretty uncommon, same for a 4576. Maybe I just have strange preferences?

I'm also interested in other guns that are "all-metal" as well, but really don't like the fact that so few are available in stainless, few yet in alloy combinations that make for a good BUG or carry gun combined with a good full-sized range gun.

cdsdss
September 20, 2011, 08:22 PM
I've only ever seen one for sale...and I bought it:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h288/cdsdss/DSC00947.jpg

kealil
September 20, 2011, 10:48 PM
Have you tried the 4506? Has a decocker and is very ergonomic (for an S&W Boat anchor:D).

BTW, I love my boat anchor. Best gun I ever bought.

C0untZer0
September 20, 2011, 10:53 PM
Rohrbaugh is an all-metal micro-matic.

Aluminum frame and either stainless slide or Titan Kote C12.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70283&d=1305390830

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70057&d=1304744420

Rohrbaugh R9
Caliber:9mm
Barrel:2.9in
Length:5.2in
Height:3.7in
Weight:13.5oz
Capacity:6+1 Rounds

checkmyswag
September 20, 2011, 10:54 PM
check chart at bottom

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/usa/sw-39-59-and-others-e.html

carguychris
September 20, 2011, 11:20 PM
I wonder if all the combinations were actually produced? I've done a little digging, because I like the frame-mounted decocker, and I haven't found a listing for a 4530, nor a 4533.
I don't think S&W produced even half of the possible combinations under their 3rd-gen model numbering system. This is particularly true of the frame-mounted decocker models, which were produced to compete with SIG Sauer on the law-enforcement market; by most accounts, they weren't very widely accepted. Most of them only lasted a year or two in the S&W catalog.

Almost all of the frame-decocker 3rd-gen S&W pistols I've seen have been 9mm, mostly Model 5926s, and all have been LE trade-ins. Some LNIB M5926s have surfaced on GB recently, I just haven't seen one personally.
I did find a 4526, but, they seem to be pretty uncommon, same for a 4576.
According to the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson (abbreviated SCSW) by Supica & Nahas, these two pistols appear to be the only frame-decocker 3rd-gen .45s produced. (I strongly recommend buying this book- or at least checking it out from the library- if you want to research anything S&W.) The former pistol was produced in 1991 only, while the latter was only built in 1991 and 1992. Yes, it's probably fair to assume that they're quite uncommon. I've personally never seen one. Almost all S&W 3rd-gen .45s I've seen have been M4506s or M4566s.

FWIW 3rd-gen S&W pistols have firing pin blocks and are perfectly safe to carry with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. Keep this in mind if you're not crazy about the awkward slide-mounted decocker/safety (you're not alone ;)). Most 3rd-gen S&W enthusiasts use it only as a decocker.

IIRC S&W recognized this and produced a number of 3rd-gen pistols with spring-loaded decocker/safeties for LE special orders; they usually display a slide-mounted safety warning that says something like "CAUTION: SAFETY RETURNS TO THE 'FIRE' POSITION WHEN RELEASED" (I don't remember the exact wording).

shabodah
September 21, 2011, 07:54 AM
I don't think the 4506 has anything else I don't like about it, just that slide-mounted decocker. So, It's not an ergonomics issue at all. From all accounts, I think the only issue I'd have otherwise with the 4506 is the weight makes it not so good of a carry gun, and thus, my interest in a 4530 or 4533 (though apparently they don't exist).

Does the Rohrbaugh R9 have a larger brother? The whole point of this excercise was to find a matching style set of compact/midsize and full size guns.

It's good to hear I'm not the only one with a strange style preference here, and I really appreciate all the good info. I find it funny that S&W produced the frame-mounted decocker models to compete against Sig, as it seems the most obvious solutions to what I'm looking for a Sigs and 1911s. But, I'm not really looking for the price tag associated with either.

In another thread that is mention of a Witness Compact Elite Polymer. I didn't know that existed, either... It's not on the EAA site. Maybe there are more combinations of CZ alternatives out there than I realize. I don't understand why CZ clones seem to avoid stainless like the plague, either.

Sturmgewehre
September 21, 2011, 08:31 AM
The Rohrbaugh is a great gun if you never practice with your defensive arm. The guns aren't designed to be shot much, only carried. To me that's a dangerous combination and thus excludes the Rohrbaugh from serious consideration by me for carry. I won't own a carry firearm I can't put several hundred rounds a month through at a minimum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi4COhZLPKE

The Rohrbaugh also is not rated to be fired with +P ammo (or +P+) which limits the ammo you may carry and also the effectiveness of the 9mm.

shabodah
September 21, 2011, 08:37 AM
Sounds like I'd be better off with something other than the Rohrbaugh R9 then.

I wonder why Star decided the Firestar should have the frame-mounted decocker but the MegaStar should have a slide mounted one?!?

pgdion
September 21, 2011, 08:49 AM
You know the slide mounted safety/decocker is not such a bad thing. The reason it's on the slide is that when you put the safety on it rolls a cylinder up that actually blocks the firing pin from the hammer. It's a much better safety/decocker system then the frame mounted IMO (the reason Beretta moved to it with the 92S back in the 70's).

If you like all steel, the 5906's & 5940's aren't too hard to come by right now and they are SS to boot.

carguychris
September 21, 2011, 09:05 AM
I think the only issue I'd have otherwise with the 4506 is the weight makes it not so good of a carry gun, and thus, my interest in a 4530 or 4533 (though apparently they don't exist).
If you're looking for a carry gun, IMHO the ones you want are the M4513 or M4553 (the latter is DAO). The M4506 and M4566 are great range guns, but they are BIG and they are HEAVY, particularly the former. Pictures do not do them justice. They make a full-size 1911 seem lithe. :)

shabodah
September 21, 2011, 09:21 AM
I definately like stainless, and weight is not an issue at all in the "range" gun, but it certainly is in the carry one. I don't see the point of a heavy 9mm, so the 59xx & 69xx series don't make any sense to me.

kealil
September 21, 2011, 09:54 AM
I will admit that the 4506 is a bit of a beast(thus the boat anchor monicker) but I don't find it hard to carry if don't mind a little extra weight. To everyone there own I guess.

18DAI
September 21, 2011, 10:58 AM
Last time I checked, the 4506 was within an ounce or two of the weight of most of the highly vaunted steel framed 1911 models out there.

My 4566 is even lighter loaded than most 1911's. No matter, with a good belt and holster the weight of my duty 4566 is negligible, to me.

The 4563TSW is an aluminum framed commander sized 45, but has the slide mounted safety/decocker. It is a fine pistol. I think the 4576 is what you are looking for as there is not an aluminum framed S&W 45 with a frame mounted decocker. The 4583TSW is a DAO aluminum framed 45 with a slick slide. You might want to check that model out.

S&W did make many 45's and several other models, with the decock only option. My melonite 4566 and my stainless spurless hammer 4566 both have that feature.

The 3rd generation pistols are my favorite semi auto's. Bet your life reliable, tack driving accurate, reasonably priced and look good doing all that. Going on thirty years and they have yet to be surpassed by anything coming out of S&W since. Regards 18DAI

pgdion
September 21, 2011, 12:52 PM
I don't see the point of a heavy 9mm, so the 59xx & 69xx series don't make any sense to me.

The 59 series is heavy (except 5903) but the 69 series is not. With an alloy frame and being compact, the weight on the 69xx isn't that much (26 oz). Quite frankly if you like all stainless steel then you're not going to find a light gun, stainless is heavy. If you compromise on alloy & stainless it will be lighter but still not as light as the plastic guns. Personally I like heavy at the range and medium weight for carry (weight doesn't bother me much, size and handling do).

shabodah
September 21, 2011, 01:29 PM
I like the idea of alloy and stainless for the carry gun, but, not so much for the "range" one. The options for 9mm seem to be far more plentiful than 40 & 45, although I'd prefer one of the larger calibers, as that is what my other gun is, and what my friends and family usually shoot.

carguychris
September 21, 2011, 02:28 PM
Last time I checked, the 4506 was within an ounce or two of the weight of most of the highly vaunted steel framed 1911 models out there.
It sure felt heavier the last time I picked one up... :o
The 59 series is heavy (except 5903) but the 69 series is not. With an alloy frame and being compact, the weight on the 69xx isn't that much (26 oz).
+1. One aspect of the 3rd-gen model-numbering system that isn't clear in some of the online guides is that the 69xx-series "shorty" double-stack compacts all had alloy frames, despite the fact that the final "6" indicates a stainless steel frame if it's a full-size pistol.

Confused yet? Remember, if it's a model number and it's not confusing, S&W's product managers weren't working hard enough that day. ;)

The 69xx-series pistols aren't as light as more recent "tactical plastic" of equal capacity, and they're somewhat thick compared to many similar guns (just like the 59-series that spawned them), but IMHO it's a stretch to call them truly heavy.

pgdion
September 22, 2011, 10:41 AM
Remember, if it's a model number and it's not confusing, S&W's product managers weren't working hard enough that day.
Amen to that!!!