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Roland Thunder
September 20, 2011, 01:29 PM
I was watching a Todd Jarrett video and he suggested laser sights to help improve marksmanship. My question is, would it still help you shoot more accurately even after you take it off or would you become so dependent on it that yor accuracy actually falls off when it's not on there.

CWKahrFan
September 20, 2011, 02:24 PM
"... would you become so dependent on it that your accuracy actually falls off when it's not on there... (?)"

I say the principles are all the same... Getting my eyes-brain-body appendages-gun barrel-bullet-path-point-of-impact to be one coordinated event is what it's all about. Anything that gives another clue or cue about the whole process is just... one more clue or cue about the whole process.

Some people seem to have an anti-technology bent. For instance; when telescopic sights first came on the scene I suppose there were commentators who felt that a shooters accuracy would "fall off when its not there"... I say... well... yes and no...

Yes, if I'm not using a telescopic sight, I may not be able to shoot quite as accurately at a distance as I did WITH one... so my accuracy "falls off"... But I wouldn't say it's BECAUSE using the scope harmed my proficiency. I'll likely be able to shoot just as well with iron sights as I used to.

So... I don't think using a laser harms my overall shooting proficiency as long as I don't use it ALL THE TIME... as long as I still practice sometimes without it.

A person could be against using sunglasses... saying that wearing them "isn't natural"... that wearing sunglasses is a kind of "crutch" and that if I'm thrown into a situation in bright sunlight when I'm NOT wearing sunglasses that I'd be at a disadvantage... That I've become DEPENDENT on wearing sunglasses.

Well... yes and no... It just seems like a kind of knee-jerk anti-technology mindset.

Carry_24/7
September 20, 2011, 02:40 PM
I am anti-lasers on guns because depending on such technology for accuracy is not something I feel comfortable doing.

But, that's just me, and there's nothing wrong with lasers on guns, just not on mine.

booker_t
September 20, 2011, 02:48 PM
I believe that the context Mr. Jarrett intended was to use them as a feedback device while developing your natural point of aim, natural index, and trigger control.

jayhan
September 20, 2011, 05:13 PM
i have a springfield xd with a insight laser sight /white light combo. I sighted it in at 7 yards and i leave it mounted on my xd as a home defense gun. I'll ususlly pop a few rounds through it with the sight on it to double check it. Point is if there's a break in i'm not going to be fumbling around looking for a flash light or the lightswitch or my cell in the dark.

Carry_24/7
September 21, 2011, 09:59 AM
Booker_t; if for that use, sounds good.

scottl
September 21, 2011, 10:09 AM
Dry fire + laser +
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/slitton/targetlk81.jpg
will show if your doing anything wrong

Best use is if you find yourself hunkered down behind cover and cannot acquire sight picture.

Sparks1957
September 21, 2011, 04:05 PM
I've learned a whole lot about my trigger control since I got Crimson Traces on my Sigs. It's a great training tool, and if they're used properly you don't become dependent on them to hit a target. I actually turn mine off at the range sometimes, and have become able to replicate groupings like those with the laser on.

Rogervzv
September 21, 2011, 06:27 PM
Laser sights can definitely improve your accuracy simply because:

1. It is inherently more accurate than most conventional sights.
2. The laser gives you feedback, and lets you know when you are steady onto the target.

However, make no mistake, all of the factors that go into accurate shooting factor into shooting with a laser. Breath control, proper grip and stance, trigger control, etc. are just as important when using a laser.

But gee, they work great when used properly!!! I have several firearms equipped with Crimson Trace lasers and I love shooting this way!

Dr_2_B
September 21, 2011, 06:59 PM
I believe the laser aids in self defense situations and I believe it helps a great deal in training.

I absolutely believe you should be able to shoot without it, but most of these devices work most of the time. So I am not one who chooses not to use it because of the possibility of equipment failure.

Rinspeed
September 22, 2011, 06:35 AM
I can't stand them myself and shoot much better with them turned off. :confused:

kraigwy
September 22, 2011, 08:17 AM
Laser's don't replace the pistol/revolvers sights, they supplement them.

To me the greatest advantage of the laser is in dry firing. We can dry fire all day long with conventual sights and not know what's really happening on the target.

The biggest problem with pistol shooting is trigger control, it doesn't take much movement to get off target. To give you an example, the sight radius of my carry pistol is 3.5 inches. With that sight radius, at 15 yards, a .02 inch movement of the sight, moves the impact 1 inch. That's not very much.

Dryfiring with the laser forces you to concentrate on your trigger contol to keep the movement down.

It's difficult to see the red dot in bright sunlight where I do most of my practice so I use the sights. If my groups go south, I step into the shop and dry fire a bit, then step back out side and always see a huge improvement.

I do some practice at twilight where I can see the dot. This confirms its still sighted in where its suppose to be. I use the crimson trace and find it holds the zero quite well.

If I have to shoot and its too dark to see my sights, then the laser is there and ready.

The Laser sight also allows you to shoot form wierd positions where you can't get behind the sights.

When I was in LE I used a little mechanics inspection mirror for peeking around corners during building searches. Didn't have laser sights back then. Now, for fun I use the mirror and laser sights to shoot around corners where I point the gun at the target without exposing my head or body, and use the mirror to see the red dot on the target. It's pretty easy to get hits. Can't d that with irons.

The anti-laser crowd keep bringing up that lasers are mechanical and depend on batteries, batteries can fail. HOWEVER, putting lasers on guns does not mean the pistols sights are tossed in the trash can. They still can be used.
If the batteries go you are no worse then if you didn't have the laser.

Having said that, if you change your batteries twice a year when you change your smoke detector, you'll not have dead batteries.

But still, I think the greatest advantage to lasers is in instant feed back you get in dry firing.

ragwd
September 23, 2011, 12:41 AM
I really like my laser on my pistol, just wish I could stop it from jumping around.:D

booker_t
September 26, 2011, 09:36 AM
To compliment with kraig mentioned, if you're in an LE/Mil role, having a laser can greatly help if you're also holding a riot shield, where you're basically forced to hold a pistol sideways (gangsta style) to get a sight picture.

Rogervzv
September 26, 2011, 12:03 PM
I just plain shoot better with my Crimson Trace lasers (and Red-Dot sights.) I have no problem "relying on technology" because the pistol is technology too. And in fact, the laser is much more reliable than about any pistol; this is very mature reliable and mature technology. Bottom line: I believe in results.