PDA

View Full Version : 9mm Nato in 9mm luger barrel... issues???


TINCAN
September 18, 2011, 05:07 AM
9mm Nato in 9mm luger barrel???

Bought a new Kel tec p-11... chambered in 9mm luger... by accident picked up some 9mm nato...

cycled a few rounds after cleaning and lubing and the rounds were difficult to eject....when ejected the brass was scratched....

i heard the nato casings are thicker..



could this be my issue??

thanks!

TMD
September 18, 2011, 05:17 AM
Their one in the same. The brass was more than likely scratched from when it was loaded and fed through the magazine.

ogree
September 18, 2011, 05:42 AM
Just make sure the 9mm NATO ammo you have isn't meant for sub-guns.
The kel tecs come apart rather violently when using +p ammo.

jonnyc
September 18, 2011, 07:41 AM
9mm Luger, 9mm NATO, 9x19, 9mm Parabellum......all the same thing. Your mother is also your aunt's sister and your grandmother's daughter.

jmr40
September 18, 2011, 08:05 AM
Most ammo I've seen labeled as 9mm NATO is loaded to the same specs as the military ammo. Which is a little hotter than most standard 9mm loads. It will chamber and fire in any 9mm gun, but should probably not be used very much, or not at all in guns not meant for +P ammo.

Of course someone may just be using the NATO name to sell ammo and it may not be any hotter than standard ammo.

Gehrhard
September 18, 2011, 12:40 PM
I don't believe it is the same as more standard factory 9mm loadings. At least it isn't supposed to be. 9mm NATO is certainly heavier than common 115 grain bullet loaded ammo and supposed to be "warmer" to essentially maintain the velocity, but I wouldn't call it hot like +P. Kinda in between. However, it could run, it seems, from equal to standard 9mm up to +P, depending on whose load we are talking about.

Winchester USA 9mm NATO Handgun Ammunition notes...

This 9mm NATO ammunition is loaded to the same specifications currently used by our U.S. Military. The higher pressure in these rounds deliver increased velocity and energy over standard 9mm ammunition, which also promotes reliable cycling in modern 9mm semi-auto handguns as well as carbines.

Notice: Use only in modern 9mm firearms in good condition. These Cartridges are loaded to military velocity and pressure which is higher than 9mm Luger cartridges. The average pressure is 10% higher than the industry standard pressure for 9mm Luger.

However, a recent catalog shows it is the same as their standard 124 gr. 9mm!

Webleymkv
September 18, 2011, 01:15 PM
9x19mm (a.k.a. 9mm Luger or 9mm Parabellum) is dimensionally identical to 9mm NATO. The difference between the two cartridges is the maximum pressures to which they may be loaded. Commercial 9mm ammo is typically loaded to either SAAMI (U.S.) or CIP (European) pressure specifications. NATO, on the other hand, does not have maximum pressure specification but rather minimum velocity specs. While most 9mm NATO ammunition is designed for handguns and would be safe to fire in a newer handgun in good condition that is rated for +P ammunition, some of it, such as the notorious 124gr Hirtenberger FMJ, is designed for submachineguns and is unsafe to fire in most handguns.

So long as your Kahr is rated for +P ammunition and the 9mm NATO ammo is loaded commercially for handguns (Winchester, for example, markets 9mm NATO in their Ranger line) it should be safe for you to fire. However, if the ammo is military surplus, you need to be very sure of exactly what it is and what type of firearm it is designed to be fired in. More information about the ammo in question such as brand, country of origin, bullet weight, and bullet type would allow us to give you a much more definite answer.

blume357
September 19, 2011, 04:50 PM
Just to poke at you a little.

You picked up some good ammo... why not go and find a good Pistol to shoot it in?

rock185
September 19, 2011, 11:51 PM
I have never owned a Kel Tec, but have used a bunch of Winchester NATO ammo in other pistols and carbines. As others have indicated, externally, it is the same as Luger/Parabellum,etc. The case, internally, may be a little heavier in the area of the head/base than some other cases. The Winchester 124 grain NATO runs about 50-100 fps faster than commercial ball in my guns depending on barrel length,etc. I also chronographed some Federal M882 NATO ball and it displayed lower velocities, consistent with everyday commercial ammo. Never a problem in any of my guns with the warmer Winchester NATO ammo. I'm about to order more...ymmv.

AustinTX
September 20, 2011, 12:02 AM
I don't believe it is the same as more standard factory 9mm loadings. At least it isn't supposed to be. 9mm NATO is certainly heavier than common 115 grain bullet loaded ammo and supposed to be "warmer" to essentially maintain the velocity, but I wouldn't call it hot like +P.

It's not the hottest +P by any means, but it is +P. It generates >35,000 psi.

8shot357
September 20, 2011, 12:33 AM
I have some Fiocchi 115g, and the NATO cross circle marks on the shells with a +P+ sticker on the box. Not really much difference of recoil compared to my regular Fiocchi 115g 9mm, or my GDHP 124g +Ps from my CZ75B. Can't really tell.

chack
September 20, 2011, 01:42 AM
you can shoot +P ammo in a P11, you just shouldn't feed it a steady diet of it.

Pico
September 20, 2011, 05:41 AM
The 9 mm NATO will defintely be a stronger load than standard 9 mm if it is truly a NATO round. The thing to do is check with whoever makes your gun first regarding the specific load to be safe.

Just FYI, I found my P-11 had a tendency to come loose with any loading of 9 mm. It popped out / off the trigger return spring and the frame pins ( I bought the belt clip mainly for the screw in frame pins)

People say this gun is not meant for extended range work and I believe it. The question is why buy a gun at all that is not designed to be fired.

Sorry to bash the P-11, it was a one of a kind firearm in the day but there are a slew of better, similar sized 9 mms out there now which shoot better and are more reliable and durable for a little more money.

Pico

8shot357
September 20, 2011, 10:04 AM
#12
chack


you can shoot +P ammo in a P11, you just shouldn't feed it a steady diet of it.

Why's that?

NJgunowner
September 20, 2011, 11:42 AM
He's probably making a reference to "KABOOM". :p

chack
September 20, 2011, 03:17 PM
Quote:
you can shoot +P ammo in a P11, you just shouldn't feed it a steady diet of it.
Why's that?

For the same reason that you don't run your Honda Civic at redline with a nitrous bottle on the way to the grocery story. It's not made for it.

The P11 is a compact pistol, and like all compact pistols the margin for error is smaller than for a similar full size gun of the same caliber.

You can shoot hot ammo through it, but it accelerates the wear and decreases the effective lifespan of the gun.