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View Full Version : I had a mishap at the range tonight ??????


handgunfan101
September 10, 2011, 09:19 PM
I was shooting with a buddy who just purchased a LLAMA XI-B 9MM COMMANDER. He had jam after jam so he said take a look at this for me.

I shot it once it fired but you could feel a vibration through the entire gun after the shot was taken. I thought it was odd but possibly just the feel of it. He bought it off his buddy for 125.00 so i thought what would you expect?

I shot again and the hammer sheared off flew back and hit me in the bottom lip splitting it open. Not too bad but i have a fat lip and small cut.

Also the slide locked back but had 3 shots left in the mag. After that i tried to have the slide go forward but it was jammed open and still an hour later cant get it to slide forward its like its welded together. You cant pull the trigger its froze all the way back.

Anyway im fine but it scarred the CRAP out of me. I have no idea what caused it and cant get it apart to see what went wrong inside?

Sarge
September 10, 2011, 09:24 PM
The busted stub of the hammer is probably jammed against the disconnector race, under the slide. Hope your lip gets better soon.

handgunfan101
September 10, 2011, 09:46 PM
thanks Sarge, Yeah that thing is just jammed together tighter than tight. I was going to tap on it with a plastic ball hammer but noticed there is a round jammed in the chamber. im working to get it out now i dont want it to discharge while im trying to get it apart.

It appears that it has gone off already by the dent on the primer but not sure.
Also i noticed a rattling back by the firing pin (that area) not sure what that is really but guessing there are parts and pieces of the gun rattling around.

Sarge
September 10, 2011, 10:10 PM
Be careful with that damn thing. You'll be better off taking it to a 1911 doctor, with the forewarning that it may have a live round jammed in the chamber.

I do not recommend you do the following, which I offer for informational purposes only.

If it was mine to fix, I'd remove the magazine, grips and bushings. Then with the slide secured in a padded vise and the the barrel pointed at couple of 5 gallon buckets of sand, I'd drive out the pin that secures the mainspring housing and remove it. That will relieve tension on the hammer stub, which should allow enough free travel to complete disassembly and replace busted stuff, as necessary.

Please forgive me for repeating myself-

Be careful with that damn thing. You'll be better off taking it to a 1911 doctor, with the forewarning that it may have a live round jammed in the chamber.

tahunua001
September 10, 2011, 10:52 PM
note to self...never buy a llama haha. that is a bad situation, I probably would have S**T a brick if I was in your shoes when that happened.

+1 on having your buddy take it to a gunsmith and tell them there may be a live round in the chamber. also, I'm not sure what kind of warranty Llamas have but your buddy might look into sending it back to them. granted he bought it used so I doubt any warranty is still in effect.

handgunfan101
September 10, 2011, 10:58 PM
yeah, He just left and we still couldnt figure it out he took the gun with him. Its pretty much totaled and no sense in trying to save it to be honest. Even if it could be repaired i would never shoot it again.

Never heard of Llama before but cant say i will be a supporter of them any time soon. Oh well at least no one was seriously hurt and that bomb is out of my house.

kealil
September 10, 2011, 11:13 PM
Llamas seem to be a crapshoot: some work great others blow up. My step father's commander In 45ACP hasn't failed on me yet but others I've seen just never seem to work. It's a throw of the dice and it looks like you lost this throw.

Get well soon:D

tahunua001
September 10, 2011, 11:16 PM
for a $125 1911 that's about all I would expect out of it. for entry level he'd be better off with an RIA, auto ordnance, or remington.

Duckkkkk
September 10, 2011, 11:17 PM
To take this garbage gun to the range in the first place endangering others in the process?

tahunua001
September 10, 2011, 11:35 PM
To take this garbage gun to the range in the first place endangering others in the process?

well that's not really fair. if you look at the semi auto forums over the last couple weeks there's a guy that's been showing off his hi-point that he got for 100 dollars and is shooting groups compareble to a $500 glock 17. and if you read them then you'll see that there are a lot of guys that also like hi-points despite being one of the worlds cheapest centerfire pistols. glocks have the highest chance of having KaBooms because of an unsupported chamber, nobody says that you shouldn't take a glock to the range because of this do they? every gun has a risk and every company turns out a lemon. here is always a risk with any firearm but some people just dont have the money to go out and buy a heckler and and koch or colt so they must be willing to take that little extra risk. and if you are really that upset about it then I suggest not taking a shooting stall adjacent to someone that's shooting a Llama :D

handgunfan101
September 10, 2011, 11:41 PM
:D

Duckkkkk
September 11, 2011, 12:02 AM
First off, I'm not upset, 2nd of all if I hear someone firing a grinding heap o junk gun I probably would move away. Thanks fvor the advise.:rolleyes:

tahunua001
September 11, 2011, 12:05 AM
haha cant say I'd blame you...and I'd probably follow suit shortly after

Shotgun693
September 11, 2011, 12:12 AM
Any gun, anytime, can fail for any number of reasons. I've shot Llamas that were just fine and seen S&Ws come apart. You're holding a machine with a high energy power source in it.
I would suggest that if you start having trouble with a gun it's time to stop and learn the reason rather than hope the next round fixes it some how.

Duckkkkk
September 11, 2011, 12:19 AM
Let's shoot this grinding heap one more time endangering lord know who.

I guess I'm just a tad weary of what I've witnessed at a gun
range lately. That's all

handgunfan101
September 11, 2011, 07:03 AM
Duckkk, there was no intention to harm anyone. The gun failed short and simple. Dont make it out that my intention was to harm anyone because it was not!!!

Maybe you shouldnt drive your car because at anytime your brakes could fail and you could injure someone. Same thing i dont appreciate it!!! As far as grinding heap it fired well the week before for his friend and did so since it was new.

It failed plain and simple unless you can see the future you two would have not known. As far as a grinding heap it looked new very well kept and i said it had a vibration to it nothing about gringding or it being a heap.

3leggeddog
September 11, 2011, 08:35 AM
Wow, Mr. handgunfan101 ask for Ideals and Help for a friends gun and gets a big load of BS from "DucKKK. That was just not called for !!!!:rolleyes:

Sarge
September 11, 2011, 09:22 AM
Llama's 1911 style autos were pretty common around central MO from the 60's to the mid 80's. I've shot them in .22, .380, 9mm, .38 Super and .45 ACP all without losing any appendages or vital functions. While they are not Colts, many were reliable and they were plenty accurate for typical pistol chores.

I don't understand the need of some people to stir hate and discontent on a public forum. I do use and recommend TFL's 'ignore user' feature and find that in my case at least, liberal use of it leads to a more enjoyable experience here.

Shotgun693
September 11, 2011, 09:28 AM
JSYK, I'm not getting on to anyone. I just recommend that if something, anything mechanical, isn't working right it's time to stop and check things.

Doug11606
September 11, 2011, 10:21 AM
I shot it once it fired but you could feel a vibration through the entire gun after the shot was taken.

I too have had a gun blowup on me, and the story sounds very familiar. It was a low cost Arminius 22 mag. It was a used gun new to my collection. I shot a couple of rounds feeling & hearing something a little unusual. I thought it was just the nature of the gun. The third round took out the frame in front of the cylinder shooting the barrel & cylinder down the range.

I think the key is if you hear or feel something that does not seem right, no matter how comfortable you are with the firearm, don't shoot it. If you cannot find the source of the problem take it to a qualified gunsmith before shooting again. Never assume it is just coincidence.

gyvel
September 11, 2011, 11:28 AM
also, I'm not sure what kind of warranty Llamas have but your buddy might look into sending it back to them. granted he bought it used so I doubt any warranty is still in effect.

Gabilondo, the company that manufactured Llamas is, as far as I know, defunct, so no warranty.

Let it Bleed
September 11, 2011, 12:31 PM
At least now you know what to expect. :p

Since no one was seriously injured, y'all will laugh about it in years to come. It's also a lesson learned - trust your gut.

Llama had a decent reputation in their day. And iirc, many of their .45 Autos were built into high dollar pistols in the days of nothing but stock Colts and everything was aftermarket built to get what you can get stock today. I was very young back then and could be wrong, but Llama wasn't a Lorcin or other throwaway gun in its day.

Personally, I'd have a professional defuse it and keep it as is - a paper weight!

Glad you're ok and still have your front teeth! ;)

handgunfan101
September 11, 2011, 01:44 PM
i apologize if i got a little defensive i meant no harm or disrespect to any of the forum brothers here. Even you Duckkk ;) no ill will and wish you the best..

Ronbert
September 11, 2011, 01:53 PM
You can gently put a wooden dowel down the barrel to feel for whether there is a bullet in the case or not.
Note where the dowel stops then lay that outside along the barrel and see if it went all the way to the breech (minus case web) or not. Knowing whether there is a live round involved is worth a little effort to sort it out.

Might be interesting to know what kind of ammo was involved.

I helped a guy unjam his Firestar 9mm which was locked up really tight. I think somehow a badly overpressure (Wolf) round gave the difficulty. The case couldn't be reinserted in the chamber without getting the same lockup symptoms.

Duckkkkk
September 11, 2011, 01:54 PM
i apologize if i got a little defensive i meant no harm or disrespect to any of the forum brothers here. Even you Duckkk no ill will and wish you the best..

I've just seen what I thought was gun handling sloppiness the last couple of times at the range, and another range incident story kind of got to me a bit.

I had a guy with a jam-a-matic bug next to me a couple of weeks a go and I just thought that not enough attention was being paid to where that muzzle was being pointed when trying to clear it.
Then this past week, a few "youths" come in with a Desert Eagle .50 and proceeded to let the gun manhandle them.

I might be a tad picky on that one, but some should just not be allowed to shoot a gun.

Aguila Blanca
September 11, 2011, 02:45 PM
Llamas were Spanish near-clones of the 1911. There were a LOT of them made and sold and, as previously commented, they were a bit of a crap shoot as to quality. If you got a good one, they were a very affordable handgun. If you got a lemon -- well, they weren't bad looking paperweights.

There is a reason why Llama went bankrupt twice and has been out of business (for the third time) for almost a decade. That said, this is the first time I've heard of a Llama suffering a broken off hammer spur, but I do know of multiple instances where that has happened with relatively new Kimbers.

handgunfan101
September 11, 2011, 03:04 PM
Ronbert. He was using wolf i believe

tahunua001
September 12, 2011, 08:19 AM
oh boy, this is about to turn into an ANTI-STEELCASE thread haha. I've never shot wolf or tula out of a handgun but I am seeing WAY too many cases of KaBooms with that ammo as of late.

DUCKKK,
I wouldn't really blame you for the discontent if I had been at the range with you. my first handgun experience was navy boot camp and they kick you out if you "break blue", allow your gun off target enough to hit either the floor, ceiling, or cross into other shooting lanes so I got anal retentive as hell about people cocking the gun to the side to clear misfires. I also had a friend that weighs 115 dripping wet who apparently shot a desert eagle on a regular basis but when I let her shoot my XDM45(which has amazingly soft recoil IMO) she about knocked her teeth out..I couldn't imagine being around her when she was shooting that desert eagle.

still you need to play nice with anonymous internet friends :D