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View Full Version : Hi-Point Safe Or Not To Carry Chambered Round


Doug11606
September 9, 2011, 04:19 PM
I have read numerous threads of folks stating it is unsafe to carry a chambered round in a Hi-Point 45. I own one and have never had an issue. The safety seems to work well, and no point of the firing pin assemblies are exposed to cause accidental discharge from dropping.

I would like to hear from someone that has actually had an accidental discharge to understand how. The only explanation I can think of is if the gun is dropped on the butt end of the slide. I still cannot see this causing a discharge.

Please advice.

S_Constitutionist
September 9, 2011, 04:30 PM
According to the manufacturer, your gun has both a sear block and a "counter weight", both of which serve to prevent accidental inertial discharge.

That, combined with a positive manual safety, would make me the believe the firearm is as safe as any other as long as I do my part.


You are certainly no worse off than carrying a series 70 1911 Condition one and many people (including myself) do so daily with no issues. Practice safe gun handling, and all will be well.

Edit: Truth be told, I dont own a hi-point nor have I had an ND - so I suppose I shouldnt have answered your question.

threegun
September 10, 2011, 02:47 PM
Doug, All the experts left the building I guess. The answer is not safe to carry chamber loaded. Check your owners manual as it says so twice. While there make up your own mind after looking at the firing pin and sear assembly. The sear assembly holds the firing pin under spring tension at the area cut into the firing pin. The area that steps down toward the front of the firing pin. The sear contacts and retains the firing pin at this point until the trigger is pulled. The surfaces in contact with one another to hold this firing pin back are tiny at best. With no firing pin blocking safety should the sear or firing pin fail it would release the firing pin onto a chambered round, if one was chambered. The gun is designed to load and fire and then unload.

threegun
September 12, 2011, 12:52 PM
Bump to get some expert advice for the OP.

tjhands
September 12, 2011, 01:14 PM
You're obviously a gamblin' man in the first place; you might as well double down and carry in Condition 1. ;)


(just greiving ya. I have nothing against Hi-Points)

tape
September 12, 2011, 01:21 PM
safe

x3m
September 12, 2011, 01:25 PM
I don't know this gun , is it a double action only like the taurus pt111 ? in which case it should be quite safe.

Glockfan36
September 12, 2011, 01:45 PM
Why do people have this incessant need to keep beating dead horses?
I would feel no differently towards carrying a Hi-Point chambered than I would any other pistol. As long as I keep the safety on and the gun is in a secure holster, the rest is up to me ENTIRELY! Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot! So just keep your brain in gear at all times and you'll be fine! My only question is (it's probably none of my business anyway) is how does this guy intend to conceal a Hi-Point .45? I have one myself, for Home Defense use and range fun only! Unless of course the OP intends to
open carry it or use a vertical shoulder holster.

Cheapshooter
September 12, 2011, 07:07 PM
Why do people have this incessant need to keep beating dead horses?

Because some people are obsessed with ridding the world of the evil Hi-Point!!!
OR
ZAMAK is like kryptonite to them, and they fear it intensely!

jaytothekizzay
September 12, 2011, 08:17 PM
Taurus pt111 is not double action only

raftman
September 12, 2011, 10:54 PM
The notion of it being unsafe probably comes from the fact that other striker-fired single-action pistols are most definitely not safe to carry with a loaded chamber, the Sterling pocket pistols (like the model 302) would be one example of such a pistol.

threegun
September 13, 2011, 09:57 AM
The notion of it being unsafe probably comes from the fact that other striker-fired single-action pistols are most definitely not safe to carry with a loaded chamber, the Sterling pocket pistols (like the model 302) would be one example of such a pistol.

It comes from that, and the fact that HiPoint says it is unsafe to do so. Also the lack of a firing pin blocking safety. Basically you have two parts, the firing pin and sear, made of questionable materials, locking together with 1MM (I just measured it) of contact surface. The firing pin under spring tension and sitting right over the chambered round.

threegun
September 13, 2011, 10:08 AM
Why do people have this incessant need to keep beating dead horses?
I would feel no differently towards carrying a Hi-Point chambered than I would any other pistol. As long as I keep the safety on and the gun is in a secure holster, the rest is up to me ENTIRELY! Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot!

Glockfan, I think you are misunderstanding maybe not but I seems like it. We are not talking about the traditional not safe to keep a round in the chamber for a lack of external safety or a hammer. We are talking dangerous to keep chamber loaded because of the design of the gun. When cocked the firing pin is under full spring tension. The only thing preventing it from release is 1MM of contact between it and the sear. Even the factory says it is UNSAFE to carry chamber loaded.

This isn't the keep your finger off the trigger problem we Glock guys defend often.

Because some people are obsessed with ridding the world of the evil Hi-Point!!!
OR
ZAMAK is like kryptonite to them, and they fear it intensely!

Or with a bit of fact to backup said obsession it could be to answer the OP's question correctly. Especially a question so potentially hazardous to them. You can take your shots at me and my motives but I have posted facts. How about you point out my errors?

Onward Allusion
September 13, 2011, 12:48 PM
Doug11606
Hi-Point Safe Or Not To Carry Chambered Round
I have read numerous threads of folks stating it is unsafe to carry a chambered round in a Hi-Point 45. I own one and have never had an issue. The safety seems to work well, and no point of the firing pin assemblies are exposed to cause accidental discharge from dropping.

I would like to hear from someone that has actually had an accidental discharge to understand how. The only explanation I can think of is if the gun is dropped on the butt end of the slide. I still cannot see this causing a discharge.

According to the gun's manual, it is not recommended that the gun be carried with a round in the chamber. Though I could be wrong, I don't think I recall ever seeing that in a Smith, Ruger, Taurus, or Beretta manual. Personally, I don't feel comfortable with carrying one in the chamber with striker fired guns, but I'm old school and like hammer fired guns.

BTW, no ax to grind and yes I do own a Hi Point, but I wouldn't carry it for SD unless it was one of my last options in a "real" caliber.

khegglie
September 13, 2011, 12:53 PM
I had a bryco- Jenning type 380 that is striker fired. They are 'nt safe to carry chambered and on safe ; just look at them when you take them down for cleaning. I trust the (partially cocked)Glock and XD's (fully cocked) howeva.

threegun
September 13, 2011, 01:52 PM
Oh my, so many with an obvious agenda :D

x3m
September 13, 2011, 03:31 PM
Taurus pt111 is DAO :D I have one , first generation , they changed the design three times from what I can gather , lucky for me it seems the first gen was the best , except offcourse for the hard trigger pull typical of DAO. but I can live with that.

larry60
September 13, 2011, 04:27 PM
My question, is there any current manufacture that says you should carry a round in the chamber?

threegun
September 13, 2011, 04:49 PM
is there any current manufacture that says you should carry a round in the chamber

None that I have ever seen. That argument is a straw man anyway. The charge is that Hi-Point has stated in its owners manual that the firearm should not be carried chamber loaded because it is unsafe. Whether or not other gun companies say their guns shouldn't be carried chamber loaded would be relevant. I have not seen any literature to suggest this. So I must wait and see.

Cheapshooter
September 13, 2011, 05:58 PM
The charge is that Hi-Point has stated in its owners manual that the firearm should not be carried chamber loaded because it is unsafe.


Not exactly! This is a direct copy of the owner's manual for a Hi-Point C9 Sounds like general lawyer speak in today's CYA world!

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii385/bobwehnert/Hi-Pointmanual0001-1.jpg

Note: we strongly recommend that you do not store, carry, or handle this, or any other firearm with a cartridge in the barrel until you are ready to shot.
Threegun, if you aren't a politician, you have the talent of selective quoting to be one!:D

EDIT: Note: A quick look in the safe, and I found similar wording in the owners manuals for a Walther P22, Browning Buckmark, Glock G20, and Beretta 92fs. Each worded a little differently, but the same common warning....Lawyer speak, CYA required safety precautions. Not a bad thing, and common in most owners manuals.

jr24
September 13, 2011, 06:14 PM
I can't answer the OP's questions, but I'm going to comment on that literature. I think its kinda interesting to see the manual refer to the chamber as the "barrel". When I read that my mind said "don't shove a round down the front of the barrel" not "don't have it chambered'. Semantics.

I also recall seeing on Hi-point's website them referring to a magazine as a "clip" on one of the gun pages.. one of the carbines I think. Kinda hurt my eyes.

Doug11606
September 13, 2011, 06:54 PM
Thanks for all the comments. I too read the manual as I did all my handguns. Each & every one in one way or another suggested to not carry a chambered round. That is why I asked if anyone had personnally experienced an accidental discharge.

threegun
September 13, 2011, 07:29 PM
Threegun, if you aren't a politician, you have the talent of selective quoting to be one!



I simply stated what was relevant to my argument. The question isn't are Beretta's safe to carry chamber loaded its about Hi-Point. While a company will lawyer up in their owners manual even Glock says this "do not carry the pistol in the ready to fire condition this is not the recommended safe carrying method for civilians". This means it is safe for Police and thus safe for those well trained. Hi-Point simply says don't do it. They don't give a special condition for the highly trained.

Take one apart and look at the design. Then you will understand why everyone with a smidgen of gunsmith experience will tell you that they simply aren't safe.

Why do better companies incorporate a firing pin blocking safety? Simply cannot have a firing pin under spring tension only being held by 1mm of metal sitting over a live round, its just not safe.

threegun
September 13, 2011, 07:31 PM
I too read the manual as I did all my handguns. Each & every one in one way or another suggested to not carry a chambered round.

Yet you only post the hi-Point one? Could it be that the others suggested that only civilians carry chamber empty like Glock did?

graysmoke
September 13, 2011, 07:39 PM
Owning any Semi-Automatic Pistol, a person has to be conscience minded of it constantly.

Always treat and handle that gun as though there is a round in the chamber.
Until you know for shure there is no round in the chamber.

That's why so many folk prefer simple revolvers.

Cheapshooter
September 13, 2011, 07:39 PM
Hi-Point simply says don't do it. They don't give a special condition for the highly trained.

we strongly recommend that you do not store, carry, or handle this, or any other firearm with a cartridge in the barrel until you are ready to shot.
This is a direct quote from their owners manual as copied to my post. (Bold print, underlining added by me)
Still don't see don't. Selective interpretation of the printed word on your part...again!

Yet you only post the hi-Point one? Could it be that the others suggested that only civilians carry chamber empty like Glock did?

Don't have time, or want to use the thread space to list all I have. You work, or own a gun shop. Open some boxes, ad do some reading.

threegun
September 13, 2011, 07:43 PM
Just read Bersa at it says to "never carry this firearm loaded without the safety lever on" meaning it is OK to do so if the safety is on.

Each worded a little differently, but the same common warning....Lawyer speak,

"Worded a little differently" Now who's the politician. The first two manuals I checked Glock and Bersa were worded a little different as you said. Problem is the "little difference" is the part that says it is ok under certain conditions. That is simply not the case with Hi-Point. They simply say don't do it and for good reason.

threegun
September 13, 2011, 07:47 PM
strongly (used for emphasis when you are giving advice)


Recommend (To advise or counsel)


That kinda means don't do it because we are emphatically advising you not to.

Cheapshooter
September 13, 2011, 07:48 PM
All lawyer speak CYA. NOTHING in the Hi-Point manual says DON'T. Just 'we recommend"!

threegun
September 14, 2011, 06:02 AM
The weather service strongly recommends you stay off the golf course in a lightning storm. They aren't telling you don't go golfing while lightning either. Still if you go there is a danger of being struck. Same thing with Hi-Point. Other gun manufactures and Hi-Point have to contend with our litigious society however Hi-Point must contend with a poor design. A design that you and everybody with any sense knows is unsafe to carry chamber loaded.

Again you ignore the facts of the design. Have you taken your Hi-Point apart yet? Have you seen the plastic grips holding parts in place? Yes flimsy plastic grips are charged with holding down the sear cam. They actually hold it onto the sear. If you try to pull the trigger with the grips loose or off the cam will jump off the sear disabling the firearm and leaving only the sear spring holding that 1mm connection between the firing pin and sear from releasing the firing pin onto a live round. The grip also hold the magazine lockout lever in place and if loose they will allow the magazine to fall from the gun. What holds the grip in place? A single screw and two plastic hooks on the bottom of the grip panel per panel.

You can dissect the words of my earlier post and try to wiggle out of the owners manual warning however you simply can't change the design and therefore cannot win this argument.

Some of us can articulate a mechanical reason why Hi-Points are junk others go by looks and feel and others still by owning and shooting one. I can and have done it all. Oh wait except owning one that would be an informed mistake and not very smart.

Onward Allusion
September 14, 2011, 10:55 AM
Wanna hear something funny? I took the time to review various S&W, Ruger, Beretta, Glock, Hi Point, & Taurus owner's manuals today...

These are the models I'd reviewed...
(S&W Sigma, Glock, S&W SD, S&W M&P, Ruger P-Series, Ruger SR Series, Beretta 92, Beretta PX4, Hi Point C9, & Taurus - general metallic pistols)

Guess which ones "strongly recommend against carrying with one in the chamber"???

Yup - Hi Point & Taurus...

Too freaking funny!!! :D

Like I'd said - no ax to grind 'cause I own both HP & Taurus. Sometimes you gotta call it like it is.

threegun
September 14, 2011, 03:08 PM
Onward, Which taurus do you own?

Onward Allusion
September 14, 2011, 03:17 PM
threegun
Onward, Which taurus do you own?


Model 327 FED, 66, 80, 82, & 85. I used to own semi-autos as well...USED TO... being the key word. :D

threegun
September 14, 2011, 04:02 PM
Which semi auto's manual are you reading from?

Onward Allusion
September 14, 2011, 04:15 PM
These are the models I'd reviewed...
(S&W Sigma, Glock, S&W SD, S&W M&P, Ruger P-Series, Ruger SR Series, Beretta 92, Beretta PX4, Hi Point C9, & Taurus - general metallic pistols)

From previous post...

threegun
September 14, 2011, 04:17 PM
Sorry I forgot to mention which model semi auto taurus are you reading from?

mikejonestkd
September 14, 2011, 04:24 PM
taurus Model 24/7 page 11 :

Semi-automatic Pistols:
Risk of an accident is greatly increased when any semiautomatic
pistol, no matter how safely designed, is carried with a cartridge in
the chamber. THIS PRACTICE IS NOT RECOMMENDED AND MAY BE JUSTIFIED
ONLY IN CIRCUMSTANCE OF CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER WHEN THE PISTOL
MAY IMMEDIATELY HAVE TO BE USED IN SELF-DEFENSE. By far the safest
procedure when carrying a loaded pistol is to leave the chamber empty.

Sounds like lawyerese to me...

Onward Allusion
September 14, 2011, 04:32 PM
Every one of the Taurus semi-auto manuals! Just open up the PDF and search for the keyword "recommended".

http://www.taurususa.com/product-manuals.cfm

Onward Allusion
September 14, 2011, 04:47 PM
Sounds like lawyerese to me...

I just find it strange that this warning/disclaimer is not anywhere in S&W's (just reviewed a few more BTW), Glocks, Ruger's, & Beretta's manuals that's all. It's even more ironic that such a disclaimer exists in the 2 manufacturer's manuals with the most posts on quality issues.

One can read whatever they want into it, but it's in black and white (or lacking in B&W). It's just an interesting factoid.

threegun
September 14, 2011, 05:29 PM
Glock says this "do not carry the pistol in the ready to fire condition this is not the recommended safe carrying method for civilians".

An old Glock manual did say the above. Seems to suggest that much training is needed to do so as in LE. So that still means its safe.

threegun
September 14, 2011, 07:04 PM
Cheapshooter, Still waiting for the rebuttal to the Hi-Points innards.

Cheapshooter
September 14, 2011, 10:04 PM
Been looking for actual case records of an AD caused by mechanical malfunction of a Hi-Point. Lots of searching, nothing found. Can you sight a case of this actually happening. I don't know how many Hi-Points are out there, but if it happens as you say it should be easy for you to substantiate.
I've seen videos of DEA agents having an AD, or I think more of a ND, in a scool room with a Glock. I have read about an AD caused by the softened leather of a worn holster getting into the trigger guard of a Glock. I did find one about some fool repeatedly racking live rounds in a Hi-Point in his kitchen, and having a ND. Just haven't found anything about a Hi-Point discharging because of the mechanical failure you describe.
You would think that with as many "experts" on the poor quality of Hi-Points, there would be plenty of examples to find.
BTW. I even read in the translated, original manual that came with my Walther P1 the same kind of mechanical failure happening with any firearm. It was used to explain how the drop hammer design of their pistol makes it safer!
Bottom line, Is it 100% safe to carry with a round in the chamber? No, but many others that are carried aren't either. No gun is 100% safe to carry loaded.
Would I carry mine loaded? No, I have better choices for CCW.
Is a Hi-Point something that should be driven off the earth forever? No, it has it's place for someone that cannot afford a more costly form of self defense. Or as in my case, just another range toy.
Do I think, or for that matter want, you to change your opinion? Absolutely not. It's fun to watch your obsession with ridding the world of the dastardly menace of a $150 gun!:D:D:D

threegun
September 15, 2011, 06:07 AM
Bottom line, Is it 100% safe to carry with a round in the chamber? No, but many others that are carried aren't either. No gun is 100% safe to carry loaded. Would I carry mine loaded? No, I have better choices for CCW. Is a Hi-Point something that should be driven off the earth forever? No, it has it's place for someone that cannot afford a more costly form of self defense. Or as in my case, just another range toy. Do I think, or for that matter want, you to change your opinion? Absolutely not. It's fun to watch your obsession with ridding the world of the dastardly menace of a $150 gun!

So the Hi-Point is not safe to carry chamber loaded, as I stated and you argued against LOL.

My Glocks are 100 percent safe to carry chamber loaded as are most of the better defensive pistols out there. As are most of the modern revolvers out there. By safe I mean cannot fire without the trigger being pulled. This doesn't include AD's or ND's as these include something or someone pulling the trigger.

Transfer bars and firing pin block safeties have made the old days of AD possibilities to a thing of the past. Tragically Hi-Point found it easier to tell customers to not keep the chamber loaded than to design a firing pin blocking safety into their gun.

Now as for my supposed crusade to rid the world of Hi-Point, you are wrong again. Its more of a crusade to inform unknowing gun shoppers of the negatives of a gun who's vocal owners tout as the second coming simply because their specimen has devoured 3 boxes of ammo with only one hiccup.

Just trying to keep it real so to speak. TFL members deserve to know the whole story because a self defense gun purchase is a big deal. It literally is a choice that could lead to living or dying based on the performance of the shooter, the handgun, or both. I take this very seriously.

In another thread I stated that Hi-Points are UNsafe to carry chamber loaded. The OP questioned this and started this thread which is great. Bottom line is the potential customer knows what he or she is getting and its limitations.

Why is it that Hi-Point owners wish to prevent the truth from coming out? Even you who now agrees argued against it. Its my belief that it is done to justify buying a piece of junk. Thats my opinion.

threegun
September 15, 2011, 06:18 AM
I forgot to clarify something. I am not referring to improper gun handling as the reason Hi-Points are unsafe. I am talking strictly design. Hi-Points are no more or less prone to ND's than any other gun.

hi-c9
November 23, 2011, 07:03 PM
I agree with threegun I just bought my Hi-Point c9 2 days ago and after inspection of the design common sense told me not to carry it with one chambered it is clearly unsafe...

KC Rob
November 24, 2011, 08:23 AM
Why is it that Hi-Point owners wish to prevent the truth from coming out? Even you who now agrees argued against it. Its my belief that it is done to justify buying a piece of junk.

This.