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View Full Version : question for LEO involving XD/XDM


tahunua001
September 9, 2011, 09:41 AM
hello all.
so I'll get to the point. I love XDMs, pure and simple. they're fun, they're accurate, they manage recoil better than any handgun I've ever shot and they are the most comfortable handguns I've ever shot though I'm aware that that last one is highly subjective.
I know a lot of cops that also like the XDM but not a lot of them pack it so I was wondering:
do you know of any police departments that issue the XD/XDM.
do you know any individual officers that opt to carry the XDM over department issue weapons.

I'm not interested in who does not pack it. I well aware that the top three are Sig, Glock and S&W. that horse needs to stop being beat.

mrray13
September 9, 2011, 12:29 PM
My department doesn't issue our duty weapons, we provide our own. We are a small department too, so it's easy to keep track of who runs what, lol.

The sheriff and one other deputy carry Glock 22s.
The Chief Deputy packs either a 4" nickel Python, yep, he does, or a RIA 1911.
The LT hauls around either a Taurus Judge, you read right, or a S&W Sigma 40ve.
Our two SGTs both carry xD 40s. One a tactical, the other a 4".
Me? I carry either a SAR K2-45, or a FNH FNP-9.

And that's our rundown. But it doesn't end there, lol. At another small local department, at least two of those officers carry xDs, on in 40, the other in 45. The one who carries the 45 xD also carries the subcompact version as a BUG.

All are carried by choice, none are issued. I know of no departments that issue xDs. I'm sure I could find more local guys carrying xDs though, as most departments around here are buy your own departments. Only two, Cairo and Anna, issue weapons. Cairo issues the Glock 22, Anna issues S&W 5906 or variant of. I know of one Anna officer who got permission to buy his own, an M&P40.

Hope that helps.

Will Beararms
September 9, 2011, 01:04 PM
No offense if you are Croatian but I am guessing the reason no departments issue them yet is the country of origin and the worry it is not stable. Additionally, Glock pretty much snapped up the market a while back and no new guns are needed. They are good guns. I like my XD40.

tahunua001
September 9, 2011, 11:16 PM
that's interesting. I've never seen a department that doesn't have an issue weapon. I know people dont normally think of croatia as having quality craftsmanship so I can understand a hesitance to use it. the taurus judge would crack me up if I saw a cop packing it haha. most of the local departments are quite poor and are still issuing either GEN2 or older GEN3 glock 17s and the local tribal police [I believe] issues M&P40s. but all of them allow and encourage you to bring your own gun and I know at least one of them packs an XD9.

Patriot86
September 9, 2011, 11:40 PM
Before the last few years the Chicago PD's range of duty weapons (CPD does not "issue" weapons) was about as wide as any department I know of.

Now it is a little less varied but still you have a lot of choice.

http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives/data/a7a57be2-12ce0ca3-81d12-ce0c-aae3aeb1a519d78b.html



Note SA is listed as acceptable, the last time I was at one of my local gun stores that is one of the few "cop shops" in the area both of the CPD officers inside were carrying XD's.

jmr40
September 10, 2011, 04:57 AM
Most depts. have criteria that any gun issued or carried must meet. Being DA or DAO is a requirement among almost all police departments with a specific ban on SA guns. The XD is classified as SA while Glock and the S&W M&P are classified as DAO.

Nothing against the XD, but that will eliminate it from consideration from the vast majority of police departments in the US. Most of the guys who work in places where SA's are allowed are going to choose a 1911.

mrray13
September 10, 2011, 01:52 PM
I have never heard of any department stating one couldn't carry SAO pistols. Not saying that there aren't those departments out there, but to say the majority have that stipulation? Most departments I know of, that allow personal weapons, allow anything up to a specific caliber, operating system isn't mentioned. I have heard of an area department that mandates some sort of external safety, that must be manipulated separately of the trigger. Meaning the Glock, M&P, new Ruger SRs and all such safety triggers, don't count. I'll try and locate where I read that.


And yeah, LT had his Judge on last night. We give him a lot of "Judge Dread" type bs over it, lol.

Noreaster
September 10, 2011, 06:29 PM
I don't know of any Department anywhere in my area that issues or allows the use of the XD. I don't know why, other then the market is pretty heavy on Sig, Beretta, Glock and S&W. Once something is established it's hard to replace. The Police Supply Stores only carry the top two or three brands. There are inherent prejudices with Department heads and guns, (my boss will never allow us to carry S&W even though M&P is pretty much taking over the market.) I've heard rave reviews of the SR9/40 but you'll never see a PD in my area carrying one. In my State the State Police went from S&W revolvers to Sigs and almost everyone followed suit. Glock was slow to make headway but they finally got a foothold and became popular for ten or fifteen years. Now the M&P is taking over. Police administrators don't like to come up with new ideas. Take a look at Policy and Procedures and you'll see that one Department made it twenty years ago and everyone else around copied it and tweaked it a little here and there, but they are basically the same. Not allot of work!

Don Glock
September 10, 2011, 06:57 PM
i'm working out of town at the moment. right now i'm in a small mayberry type area, and the local pd (which is probably a dozen cops at the most) are indeed issued XDM's. i talked to one the other day when i saw it in his holster.

however, that's the first time i've ever seen either an xd or xdm in policeman's holster.

tahunua001
September 10, 2011, 10:22 PM
The XD is classified as SA while Glock and the S&W M&P are classified as DAO.

sorry guy but the XD is classified as DAO. it's the exact same firing system as glock, M&P and SR9. I personally consider them all single action just because you cant decock them and they always that the same trigger pull but on paper all of these weapons are double action only.

and Thanks Don, you are the first person to confirm a dept that issues the XDM

BeachHead
September 11, 2011, 12:14 AM
The XD is like a Glock in that it is a striker-fired semiautomatic pistol. However, the Glock striker is only HALF-cocked after racking the slide. Pulling the trigger fully cocks and releases the striker.

The XD is technically a single-action -- racking the slide FULLY cocks the striker. Pulling the trigger merely trips the sear. This explains why the XD/HS2000 has a grip safety and cocked striker indicator.

So yeah, on paper, for the sake of simplicity and not getting too technical for those not in the know, the XD is classified as DAO. Just because a gun doesn't have an exposed hammer doesn't necessarily mean it's of the DAO variety. Striker-fired is not a type of action.

Don Glock
September 11, 2011, 12:15 AM
The XD is classified as SA while Glock and the S&W M&P are classified as DAO.

correct.





sorry guy but the XD is classified as DAO. it's the exact same firing system as glock, M&P and SR9. I personally consider them all single action just because you cant decock them and they always that the same trigger pull but on paper all of these weapons are double action only.


incorrect.


when you pull the trigger on a glock or m&p the striker is both retracted and released. that's two actions.


when you pull the trigger on an xd, the striker is simply released. that's a single action. (the cycling of the slide retracts it)

tahunua001
September 11, 2011, 12:21 AM
The XD is like a Glock in that it is a striker-fired semiautomatic pistol. However, the Glock striker is only HALF-cocked after racking the slide. Pulling the trigger fully cocks and releases the striker.

The XD is technically a single-action -- racking the slide FULLY cocks the striker. Pulling the trigger merely trips the sear. This explains why the XD/HS2000 has a grip safety and cocked striker indicator.

So yeah, on paper, for the sake of simplicity and not getting too technical for those not in the know, the XD is classified as DAO. Just because a gun doesn't have an exposed hammer doesn't necessarily mean it's of the DAO variety. Striker-fired is not a type of action.

agreed, I was just trying to get across the point that the XD isn't classified as SA even though it pretty much is. I couldn't see a PD basing a technicality as a reason to ban are particular firearm from service.

out of curiosity(not to hijack my own thread) do you know of any striker fired pistols that are classified as single action only?

Don Glock
September 11, 2011, 12:31 AM
agreed, I was just trying to get across the point that the XD isn't classified as SA even though it pretty much is.


springfield armory "classifies" the XD/XDM's as single action (because they are)


this is one of the reasons many local pd's won't issue, or allow personal purchase/carry of XD/XDM's.




you should find more reliable sources for your info.

Noreaster
September 11, 2011, 05:17 AM
How does the XD trigger compare to the M&P trigger? M&P is taking over the police market.

mrray13
September 11, 2011, 02:20 PM
this is one of the reasons many local pd's won't issue, or allow personal purchase/carry of XD/XDM's.

Being DA or DAO is a requirement among almost all police departments with a specific ban on SA guns.

Again, can anyone provide proof that most departments ban SAO type firearms? Maybe it's just where I live. but there sure are a lot of 1911s, SA/DA pistols and revolvers in holsters around here.

I've only been in law enforcement 3 years, so I'm still a rookie. But I know of one department that issues a 1911 if you want a department issued weapon. I know of several folks carrying xDs, and revolvers. And those who trained with the wheels were taught to cock the revolver upon drawing for the first shot, transitioning to DA for the remaining.

Also, most SRT teams opt for a 1911 that I know of. Sig has several SA pistols on the market, a few of which I'm sure are in police holsters.

While I sort of understand why some departments would discourage SAO type firearms, I have yet to hear of any that allow personal weapons to ban SAO.

Again, I'm sure there are those departments out there, I just can't see them being the majority. Maybe the majority of major departments, ala LAPD, Chicago PD, NYPD, etc. But when one considers all the small town, small departments that mandate an officer has to provide their own, I can see the majority of ALL departments, regardless of size, allowing SAO.

Then again, I could be wrong, lmao.

jmr40
September 11, 2011, 02:27 PM
The XD, Glock, and almost all striker fired guns feel very much the same to the shooter. That does not change how they work internally. With the XD the striker is fully cocked. Pulling the trigger releases the striker firing the gun. This is a "Single Action". With all other striker fired guns the striker is only partially cocked. Pulling the trigger does 2 things, pull the stiker all the way back then releasing it. When pulling the trigger does 2 things it is called double action. When pulling the trigge only does 1 thing it is called single action.

I understand that in practice they are very much alike. But most LE agencies ban any single action gun. When S&W and Ruger introduced their striker fired guns they designed them to meet the requirements of most LE agencies so their guns could be considered. When XD gun was designed no considerations were made.

AustinTX
September 11, 2011, 02:47 PM
sorry guy but the XD is classified as DAO. it's the exact same firing system as glock, M&P and SR9.

Nice attitude. You're wrong. Go try to shoot your XD in IDPA Stock Service Pistol and see what they tell you.

OfficerJohnson10
September 11, 2011, 03:38 PM
Easton Police Department in Eastern Pennsylvania issues the service model XD as their duty weapon. My department carries the Sig P229 DAK but when the time comes to look for a possible replacement the XD will be on the list for consideration. I personally, until recently, carried a XD sub-compact off duty in a shoulder rig which I have now switched out to a compact 1911 only because of my preference for the 1911 45 cal platform. Our detective also carries a sub-compact XD as his duty weapon.

Jim Watson
September 11, 2011, 03:56 PM
Acceptance of the S&W Plastic M&P as a DAO in the same league as a Glock is a masterpiece of advertising and public relations, not engineering.
The PM&P has a simple rocking sear that moves the stricker back about as far as the hammer cams on a CZ75 with its way positive hammer hooks.

The original SD2000 was advertised as SA equivalent to distance it from the mushmatic operation of the Glock, and was accepted as such by the NIJ. Springfield was pretty well stuck with the definition when they took it over as the XD.
So they pretty much outsmarted themselves.

I figure they are all operationally equivalent and do not feel more or less safe or well armed with any of them. Hard to get the bureaucrats to agree, though.

Don Glock
September 11, 2011, 05:21 PM
Again, can anyone provide proof that most departments ban SAO type firearms? Maybe it's just where I live. but there sure are a lot of 1911s, SA/DA pistols and revolvers in holsters around here.

i don't think you'll find anyone here that has written proof of their local pd's firearms policy.

if you really want to know, pick up the phone and call them, although they might find someone asking about their guns somewhat suspicious. :eek:


personally, i read the police officers forums (there's a few), and i chat with mods that are local and federal officers.

there are quite a few that allow single action autos, and many that don't.


But I know of one department that issues a 1911 if you want a department issued weapon.

yes, tacoma WA issues kimber 1911's. http://www.tacticalgearmag.com/page/tacoma-washington-police


i believe texas rangers can also opt to carry a 1911 rather than the issued SIG.


i never inferred that all local pd's disallow SA autos, if that's what's sticking in your craw :confused:

armsmaster270
September 11, 2011, 06:08 PM
Many dept that issue Sigs and others to the street cops issue 1911 type weapons to their SERT, SWAT, and other specialized units.

BeachHead
September 11, 2011, 06:50 PM
After about 5min on xdtalk and skimming through yahoo search results, it looks like the XD/XDM is an approved sidearm for a number of LE agencies.

As far as being standard issue, I only found three. Don't know how accurate this information is, being from the internet an all.
-- Mexico Dept of Public Safety, Mexico, Missouri
-- U.S. Dept of Agriculture
-- Georgia State Police

tahunua001
September 11, 2011, 10:21 PM
alrighty then, in the face of such adversity I must concede that my understanding of the XDs action was completely wrong and I apologize.
Ignorance is correctable and I thank you for the lessons :D


When XD gun was designed no considerations were made.

unfortunately the reason that the XD was not built to US LE specs was because it was designed by HS PRODUKT for the Croatian military. Springfield does not manufacture them or do any modifications to them outside of their custom shop(again I might be completely off the pitchers mound with this one). SA only has importation and marketing rights to it. the HS2000 which is marketed to the US as extreme duty(XD) was never intended to for USA LEO use so they never saw need to modify mechanical workings. just as you would not expect Ruger to make a pistol to meet Yugoslavian military needs, HSP never designed a pistol specifically for a foreign entity, though I know that they make an ugly little bullpup rifle that the french army uses at least in limited fielding.

mrray13
September 12, 2011, 01:53 PM
if you really want to know, pick up the phone and call them,..............i never inferred that all local pd's disallow SA autos


Nope, you never inferred all did, but you and jmr40 inferred the majority did. Which, IME, just isn't the case. As a current LEO, which I'm assuming you are not, I have a bit more insight into what agencies, and even inside forums where non-LEOs can't go, are carrying. While the xD isn't prevalent, SAO type pistols, namely 1911s, are getting to be. Especially in the SRT, SWAT, etc type divisions within said departments. That typically carries over to the street, if department allows. Everyone wants to carry what the cool kids are carrying.

Also, as it's you and jmr40 who are inferring such, the majority ban, it's up to you two to provide the proof. Although, in all honesty, it's not that big of a deal, and don't really care if you do or don't, lol. I was just curious as to why you two think that. As I've said, I know that the majority of departments around me, who are primarily "provide your own" type departments, have no such ban on SAO weapons, thus you see 1911s, revolvers and SA/DA pistols and xDs, on many hips. Both of my current duty/off duty weapons are of the SA/DA variety, although I carry the SAR K2-45 cocked and "locked" (safetied).

As it is, thread jack over, lmao!! ;):D

tahunua001
September 12, 2011, 10:06 PM
Stop the presses!! thread jack reinstated :D so since I could not find any definitive classification for the XD trigger group I Emailed SA about it and here's the correspondence:

The XD trigger is neither double or single action. It is classified as a striker fired action, which resembles a single action trigger, more closely than it does a double action trigger mechanism. The slide must be actuated to reset the sear and the striker. Simply pulling the trigger will not allow striker to fall, if the slide has not been reset. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you.



With Best Regards,

(name omitted for privacy)

Dealer Assistance Team

Springfield Armory

420 W. Main St.

Geneseo, IL 61254

1-800-680-6866

1-800-617-6597

FAX - 309-944-8490

so though it does resemble a single action it doesn't meet the requirements to be called SAO or DAO.

Don Glock
September 12, 2011, 10:09 PM
Nope, you never inferred all did, but you and jmr40 inferred the majority did.


sure didn't. re-read my post :cool:

The XD trigger is neither double or single action. It is classified as a striker fired action, which resembles a single action trigger, more closely than it does a double action trigger mechanism. The slide must be actuated to reset the sear and the striker. Simply pulling the trigger will not allow striker to fall, if the slide has not been reset. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you.

this would reiterate what i said in my previous post, but with SA's marketing twist: it's an amazingly unique one of a kind trigger single action system. :eek:

tahunua001
September 12, 2011, 10:52 PM
springfield armory "classifies" the XD/XDM's as single action (because they are)

The XD trigger is neither double or single action. It is classified as a striker fired action...

yep, total reiteration ;)

Don Glock
September 12, 2011, 11:44 PM
yep, total reiteration


seriously? :eek:

tahunua001
September 12, 2011, 11:51 PM
haha ok fine I'll play nice :rolleyes: thread jack withdrawn your honor:cool:

ghost556
September 13, 2011, 04:25 AM
the XD isn't carried by more police officers because it hasn't done very well in testing. it simply isn't in the same league as glock,hk,sig,beretta and S&W. theres a reason you don't see many at all putting it to serious use.

tahunua001
September 13, 2011, 04:43 AM
the XD isn't carried by more police officers because it hasn't done very well in testing. it simply isn't in the same league as glock,hk,sig,beretta and S&W. theres a reason you don't see many at all putting it to serious use.

and simply what department has the money to issue H&K? again, I wasn't interested in departments that dont issue or reasons why they dont, I'm just looking for those that do

BeachHead
September 13, 2011, 12:07 PM
the XD isn't carried by more police officers because it hasn't done very well in testing.

Really? What specifically did the XD not do well with? Could you please provide a link?

and simply what department has the money to issue H&K?

Actually a few here in California issue the USP.
Atwater PD -- USP45
Burlingame PD -- USP40
Campbell PD -- USP45 Compact
Santa Barbara Sheriff -- USP40

Mudinyeri
September 13, 2011, 02:37 PM
Glock is to police departments as MacInstosh is to primary and secondary schools. They've cornered the market. However, once those primary and secondary school students graduate and get a "real job" they're highly unlikely to utilize a Mac at work. :D ;)

P.S. I'm not a Glock-hater. I just thought it was a funny comparison.

mrray13
September 13, 2011, 02:45 PM
Don, while you didn't specifically say "majority banned", you did state that while few allow, many don't. It could be argued that you did, at least imply, there is a majority ban on SAO type weapons. Since you weren't specific, you win, :D ! I won't argue over what may, or may not, have been implied.

That said, if you dig deeper, you will in fact notice that SAO weapons, namely the 1911, is making a huge police comeback. Mostly due to the SRT types, as previously mentioned. There will always be departments that limit what one can carry, if provide your own is allowed, or mandated. Luckily, I'm not at one of those.

Speaking of the xD and it's not doing well, say what? I'm not a fan of the grip/trigger reach, (it's too short for me), the ergos just don't work in my hand, but all xDs that I've seen have worked flawlessly. I do believe, due to bore axis, that they have a bit more felt recoil compared to the Glocks and M&Ps, but otherwise compare very well in all other aspects. Hell, there is a xD owned by one of the MTU instructors that has been Robarized that I'd love to own. That thing has a trigger no polymer pistol deserves, lmao. It really is that sweet.

deadcoyote
September 13, 2011, 03:00 PM
At my department we're issue dglocks and cannot opt out of it. I have a buddy that works for Hercules Pd in the bay area (CA) that carries a full size XD 45.

tahunua001
September 14, 2011, 01:46 AM
Actually a few here in California issue the USP.
Atwater PD -- USP45
Burlingame PD -- USP40
Campbell PD -- USP45 Compact
Santa Barbara Sheriff -- USP40

I retract my H&K objection. thanks for the info

Speaking of the xD and it's not doing well, say what? I'm not a fan of the grip/trigger reach, (it's too short for me), the ergos just don't work in my hand, but all xDs that I've seen have worked flawlessly. I do believe, due to bore axis, that they have a bit more felt recoil compared to the Glocks and M&Ps, but otherwise compare very well in all other aspects. Hell, there is a xD owned by one of the MTU instructors that has been Robarized that I'd love to own. That thing has a trigger no polymer pistol deserves, lmao. It really is that sweet.

as far as I know, the only thing I have ever heard that they dont do well with is that XDs cant be racked one handed because the grip safety has to be pressed in order to rack the slide. how true this is? I dont know. I have seen a few guys in XDTALK that claim that they can do it quite easily, all of them have XDMs though so I dont know if HSP fixed the problems with the XDMs or if people are just talking out of their rears when they post that.

another thing they do poorly with says that they were failing drop tests. I'm sorry but I haven't seen a single documented case of an XD firing when dropped.

mrray13
September 14, 2011, 09:57 AM
Never heard that about the grip safety and racking the slide. Will try that later today, as the wife and I are going gun shopping.

As to the drop issue, I've not heard of an issue, although I won't say it hasn't happened. Nothing is fool proof, lol.

BeachHead
September 14, 2011, 10:15 AM
To rack the XD slide with one hand, can't you do the same as you would any other pistol (with or without a grip safety)? ...Grasp the gun as normal (grip safety depressed), stick the rear sight against the edge of a table and shove down?

Serious question: How else would you rack the slide without using your support hand?

tahunua001
September 14, 2011, 10:37 PM
To rack the XD slide with one hand, can't you do the same as you would any other pistol (with or without a grip safety)? ...Grasp the gun as normal (grip safety depressed), stick the rear sight against the edge of a table and shove down?

Serious question: How else would you rack the slide without using your support hand?
generally the one hand rack is a wounded warrior type drill where you grab the top of the slide and then press the back of the grip against your hip and rack that way, I would think your hip would still press the grip safety enough to allow the slide to cycle but that's just me, I'm about 4000 miles from my XDM so it's a little hard for me to test this out.

BeachHead
September 15, 2011, 05:42 PM
Oh OK, good idea for desperate times. Hadn't thought about that one.

tahunua001
September 16, 2011, 01:57 AM
I never would have thought of that in a million years, whenever I heard of a one handed rack I thought they were talking about doing it like a shot gun in john woo movies haha. it wasn't until after reading a few articales about one handed and wounded shooting drills that I finally figured out what they were talking about