View Full Version : Wichita PD to get new guns

September 8, 2011, 07:22 PM
Picked up the local rag, The Wichita Eagle, yesterday and on the front page is an article about the Wichita PD going back to 9mm from their .40 cal.
They went to Glock 9mm back in '92 and then to .40cal in '98. Now they're back to 9mm Glock or S&W. The article went on to say that going back to 9mm would improve accuracy because of recoil issues...although they admit that most of the officers don't shoot up the 600 rds per officer they are allocated every year.

So is it that they don't hit what they're aiming at because of recoil, or because they don't practice enough?

Don Glock
September 8, 2011, 07:24 PM
probably due to cost, and/or some folks not liking the snappy 40cal recoil. most cops aren't "shooters".

Will Beararms
September 8, 2011, 07:34 PM
Most Cops I know are shooters---here in the Dallas Suburbs anyway and most are veterans----they are "gun people". Most suburban departments let them "roll their own". You see a lot of XD .45's, enhanced 1911's, Glock 21's and XDm .45's as well as a butt load of Glock 22's. If recoil is an issue, they are not physically fit to do the job IMHO.

Don Glock
September 8, 2011, 07:41 PM
texas is different :D

Will Beararms
September 8, 2011, 08:55 PM
DG not to be a smart arse like I was in the reply post but recoil? C'mon. I used to live in Wichita and worked out in the same gym as guy known as Blake one of WPD's finest. If you look up Bad Arse in Webster's, Blake's picture is there. I have seen WPD kick some butt in the line of duty and it was fully justifiable. I remember they had a nutcase in a Wal Mart on the south side of town in the late 1980's that pulled a gun and they blew his head off. They did not dilly dally. I was coming home from work one day on central right a mid town and a motorcycle officer was in pursuit of a suspect in a car, the car stopped the perp got out the the MC cop just jumped off of the bike while it was sliding broke into a run and nabbed the bad guy. :eek:

Don Glock
September 8, 2011, 09:13 PM
DG not to be a smart arse like I was in the reply post but recoil? C'mon.

i didn't say it bothers me (i own a few fotays). however, some people just don't like it's snap, and tend to flinch throwing off their shots. yes, policemen/women too.

September 8, 2011, 09:32 PM
I have shot everything in handguns between .22lr and .44 Magnum, and I don't care for the .40S&W. When I was on duty back in the day we went from the 9mm to the .40S&W and I thought the move sucked then.

I'd rather have the extra capacity when my main weapon is a sidearm because even if you are a decent shot on the one way range, the statistics on solid COM hits during a dynamic gun fight are not favorable.

Since I don't perceive any measurable difference in lethality between the 9mm and the .40S&W when using modern JHPs, I'd carry a 9mm on duty were that an option.

Lead shooter
September 9, 2011, 07:26 AM
Google is my friend. Here's the article being referred to.


September 9, 2011, 08:45 AM
Most Cops I know are shooters---here in the Dallas Suburbs anyway and most are veterans----they are "gun people". Most suburban departments let them "roll their own". You see a lot of XD .45's, enhanced 1911's, Glock 21's and XDm .45's as well as a butt load of Glock 22's. If recoil is an issue, they are not physically fit to do the job IMHO.

YES!!! I finally found word that some cops pack XDMs...exciting lol
back to the original topic.

it's more than likely a practicality issue more than inaccuracy issues. just because yo can shoot something accurately doesn't mean that you like shooting it. I qualified Expert in my M9 qualifications with the navy but I flat out HATE that gun. 40 cal is quite expensive compared to 9mm. the armor piercing effects(or lack there of) are almost the same as 9mm. the stopping power you gain over 9mm is quite marginal compared to a 45 when 40 and 45 have very close to the same recoil. I rarely hear of a police dept that doesn't allow it's officers to roll their own so if a police dept is obligated to provide at least one gun for every officer it employs and everyone packs their own because they don't like the 40 then it becomes economically irresponsible to have a large amount of guns sitting around collecting dust.
just in case that was confusing

police dept has 50 officers therefore police dept is required to have 50 guns
most officers dnt like the company guns so 39 of them pack their own guns
even though the PD has 39 guns in storage they still have to buy more if they increase manning so that if everyone stops bringing their own overnight they still have the proper stores.

or I could be completely wrong and witchita just wanted an excuse to get new toys :D

September 9, 2011, 09:58 AM
In urban departments, police officers are typically not gun friendly. More and more cops are being broken up into one of 2 camps:

1) bureaucratic administrators- write tickets and citations and try to avoid confrontations

2) door kickers and tactical response- go into what they expect to be a hostile environment with the expectation that they'll probably have to shoot someone.

#1 will likely shoot very little and have limited proficiency

#2 probably shoots alot, and has a degree of bloodthirstiness that is disturbing.

Old school Law enforcement that sees their gun as a tool that they have to be prepared to use and therefore be proficient with it as well as a hobby that they enjoy working with is becoming less common.

September 9, 2011, 10:03 AM
I posted some time back about the Aurora, CO PD SWAT/Tactical unit switching from .40 to 9mm, and it wound up being a rather interesting 4 or 5 page thread on the old, tried and true 9vs40 debate.

The bottom line for said PD was that the 9mm allowed for more accurate shooting and getting back on target faster than the 40, in their estimation anyway. A number of PDs have made the switch recently, in fact.

September 9, 2011, 10:08 AM
Most Cops I know are shooters

My experience is different. Most POs I know don't shoot recreationally and are at least as concerned with having a good pen on them (which they use everyday) as a good firearm (which they use rarely).

I would also suggest that recoil sensitivity isn't a general physical fitness issue. I am very recoil sensitive, and always have been, fit or not.

September 9, 2011, 10:11 AM
This isn't the first time in recent history I have heard of PD's going from .40 back down to the 9mm.

I am not a caliber snob.. I carry all three 9/40/45... so I wonder if its a cost issue in the tight economy... or is it due to recoil... or did they find that the 9mm was just as effective as the .40.... obviously we could only speculate.

Personally if I was a duty officer I would probably choose the 9mm... for the extended capacity and faster follow up shots... but then again you watch the North Hollywood shoot out and cringe. Although I think it's standard practice to have an AR in the cruiser now isn't it?:confused:

September 9, 2011, 10:33 AM
I think that better 9mm ammo is probably helping them justify making the switch back to 9mm, this plus all the other things you all mention. Interesting move either way.

September 9, 2011, 10:33 AM
I really can't tell a difference in recoil between 9mm and .40 S&W. I can barely tell the difference with .45 ACP.

I definately notice the recoil with a .44 mag, but it isn't anything that impacts accuracy, only follow up shots.

Magazine capacity is a deciding factor for me, and .40 S&W is a great compromise of power and capacity.

That being said, I only have a pair of glock 22s and have 4 or 5 times as many 9mm handguns. Mostly that's due to ammo cost and magazine compatibility with my 9mm carbines.

Thee weird thing is that although in every competition I've been in I scored better on the pistol portion than the rifle portion, I own 7 or 8 times as many rifles as I do handguns, and shoot my rifles alot more than handguns. I'm jkust more comfortable with carrying a rifle than a handgun. I imagine that's because, as an infantryman, I was never issued a handgun and didn't have one with me 24/7 like I did my rifle the times I deployed.

I have to wonder if police departments might be better served by issuing their officers carbines in more potent calibers instead a a pistol like they did in WWII.

Many folks disagree with me when I say that pistols have VERY limited use in combat and when they are issued it is as a last ditch weapon or status symbol for someone that isn't expected to ever use it. Of course, many of those same people think that a full auto weapon is somehow more lethal than a semiauto or that a shotgun is the best weapon to have for almost any circumstance that you could find your self in.

September 9, 2011, 11:27 AM
Chack I agree with you on a lot of points. I find it odd when you go to a lot of European countries.. there are beat cops walking around with a SMG. I often wondered why our LEO's didn't adopt that. Then again meeting SOME of our LEO's I would be scared if they had an issued SMG :rolleyes:

I shoot a rifle much better than I probably ever will a handgun too. Then again I grew up picking off squirrels with a open sight .22 then moved on to small-bore competitions.;)

I mean a sidearm is just what it is.. a side arm.. and as for tactical and combat action it is just a last ditch weapon. Unfortunately people frown when I walk down the street with my AR slinged at the low ready... so a lot of us CCW'ers have to settle on the handgun being our primary weapon platform.... sigh.....:o