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LawStanz
September 7, 2011, 06:27 PM
I'm looking to buy my first handgun and have narrowed the choice down to either the PX4 or the M&P in 9mm. Both fit my hand equally well, and seem to have roughly equal online reputations for reliability. The M&P would end up costing me about $100 more. I'm leaning towards the M&P but am wondering if it's worth the extra money. Any thoughts?

MLeake
September 7, 2011, 06:38 PM
I have PX4s in 9mm and .40, and M&Ps in .45... they are both good guns.

My advice would be find a range that has both in the rental rack, and compare them side by side to see if they both shoot equally well for you.

C0untZer0
September 7, 2011, 06:40 PM
Why come to us now when you've supposedly narrowed it down to just 2?

What about a Walther? why isn't Walther in the mix? Why not a nice XD ?

Why aren't you considering a CZ? CZs are nice...

And no H&K ???? :confused:

Mrgunsngear
September 7, 2011, 07:08 PM
Bottom line---I've shot PX4s and M&Ps. Both guns seemed like quality firearms to me but the PX4 seems 'chunky'. I love my M&Ps. I own 5 and will probably buy more in the future as they expand the line. All of them have been 100% reliable, accurate, and have good fit/finishes for a polymer gun. I'd go with the Smith.

LawStanz
September 7, 2011, 09:33 PM
Thanks for the replies so far. To respond to some of the points raised...

1) I handled Springfields, Glocks and the poly Sigs and eliminated them due to how they fit my hand. I'm not sure why, but I never seriously considered the Walther p99. It might have been looks, though I'm doing some research on it now. I'm also trying to keep my cost under $500, which pushes out H&K and the CZ.

2) While I've been able to handle the M&P and the PX4, I won't be able to fire either prior to purchase. There are no ranges for a couple hundred miles that rent firearms. Besides which, I've literally shot a handgun twice in my entire life, so I'll be developing my technique around the gun I acquire.

Thanks again for any continued assistance.

speedfreeq
September 7, 2011, 09:47 PM
I have a PX4 as my second handgun. I traded my Taurus PT111 in on it literally for its drop- dead Italian sexiness.

I've since put close to 1000 rounds through it in the last 5 weeks. It has been nothing but reliable, and accurate enough for my neophyte a$$ to dial in a decent grouping.

Feature- wise, it's hard to beat: cam- lock breach, ambidextrous safety and clip release, pinless takedown... plus it's a Beretta, so it'll hold its value even if you decide it's not for you. It probably is, though.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Boats
September 7, 2011, 10:36 PM
I have both and the PX-4F and a M&P9 full size. The PX-4 is my nightstand pistol and the M&P was given over to my wife.

In case it can't be figured out, the PX-4 "won," and a "C" version is next up.

The PX-4 felt better, has better relief between the front strap and the underside of the trigger guard. It has an easier take down, and is more accurate in my hands than is the M&P. I also like the fact that the Beretta has a chrome lined barrel and that the end user can easily change its trigger pull weight with a simple mainspring swap.

Both are equally reliable and I have never had a trouble from either on that front.

tahunua001
September 7, 2011, 11:28 PM
I don't own either of these but I have rented both at the local range and read up on them when I was looking for my own first handgun so I will try to answer your question as best I can.

you have a few things to consider.
the M&P is a single action striker fired pistol and the PX4 is a double action. that first trigger pull on the Px4 is going very heavy and more difficult to get a good hit off on the first try unless you teach yourself to cock the hammer as you draw, not really a hard process but if you are carrying with safety on it's difficult to cock and release the safety at the same time.

as far as safeties go the M&P is as the base of the slide and is disengaged with a downward thumb motion where as the Beretta has it's safety in a really awkward place at the top of the side and has to be pushed forward so it's difficult to disengage while drawing.

many more police departments issue the M&P over the PX4.

so for action, reputation and safety the M&P has the beretta beat.

on the other hand the Beretta has a smooth, crisp trigger even in double action whereas the M&P has a very mushy trigger. many novice shooters have trouble with trigger control because it is difficult to tell when the trigger breaks and resets. a lot of veteran shooters just practice their way through it and eventually learn where that perfect break and reset point is but a lot of new users have to buy an aftermarket trigger group, the APEX trigger is the most popular.

so seeing as this is your first gun a more economic and hassle free approach might be better in the long run. I would recommend the PX4 for you good sir.

Discern
September 7, 2011, 11:55 PM
@tahunua001

I believe the PX4 is still available without any external safeties (depending on model). A person does not need to cock the hammer of a DA/SA handgun to be accurate. All it takes is practice and discipline. If a person is going to use a firearm, they should practice and be disciplined. The M&P is striker fired not SA. On the PX4 constant action, the slide partially cocks the hammer; and pulling the trigger finishes cocking the hammer and releasing the hammer. Many striker fired handguns work in the same fashion and are not a true SA. The use of a firearm by a LEA does not mean it is any better than another quality firearm. Purchases are based on what types of deals can be made and a lot of politics.

tahunua001
September 8, 2011, 12:53 AM
@tahunua001

I believe the PX4 is still available without any external safeties (depending on model). A person does not need to cock the hammer of a DA/SA handgun to be accurate. All it takes is practice and discipline. If a person is going to use a firearm, they should practice and be disciplined. The M&P is striker fired not SA. On the PX4 constant action, the slide partially cocks the hammer; and pulling the trigger finishes cocking the hammer and releasing the hammer. Many striker fired handguns work in the same fashion and are not a true SA. The use of a firearm by a LEA does not mean it is any better than another quality firearm. Purchases are based on what types of deals can be made and a lot of politics.

I wont argue about LEO use as a gauge of how good a gun is, in fact I believe we've agreed on a lot of other threads involving similar topics. I'm just saying that many cops already swear by the M&P, though many also swear by glocks but that doesn't mean I'm going to run out and buy one :D

I know you don't have to cock a DA hammer to shoot but there is a helluve difference between 6 pound trigger pull and 12(on M9s, I dont remember the PX4s off the top of my head). again I agree that you can get good with discipline.

and as far as DOA, it's a gray area with many shooters, if you cant manually cock the striker, then there is only one action and every time the slide cycles it cocks the striker automatically(single action definition). I also see the DOA side of the argument too but I will keep my trap shut and just agree to disagree.

also the DAO trigger on an M&P is still just as manageable as the single action on a PX4. but I will concede that I did not know you could get a PX4 without the slide safety lever...that would throw it drastically higher on list of guns I may buy someday.

all that said, I'd still take the PX4 over the M&P

ClydeFrog
September 8, 2011, 01:14 AM
I've owned a NIB Beretta PX4 C format 9mm in 2009. It had 17rd pistol mags & 3 dot "super-luminova" sights.
I liked it a lot. I'm paying off a new Military & Police 9mm with a ambi safety.
I should get the M&P in mid Oct. :)

For a new or entry level handgunner, I'd buy the C PX4 pistol. It's safe, well made & robust. The M&P is great also but striker fired pistols are better for advanced shooters.
If the pistol is intended for home protection or concealed carry, get a PX4 C format. Beretta-USA is also offering a $50 rebate for security/sworn LE/firefighters/active duty armed forces.
www.berettausa.com

sixxgunnernick
September 8, 2011, 01:28 AM
Have you considered the fnx9 or the ruger sr9c? I spent alot of time between these exact guns (research and handling) and the xdm9c..then I handled the sr9c , felt the trigger and had alot of features I wanted..instantly sold. It's about you and if it feels good in your hand. I bet if you handled the fnx9 you would get it. It felt the best in my hand but I just love the sr9c. A thousand trouble free rounds.

tahunua001
September 8, 2011, 01:33 AM
Have you considered the fnx9 or the ruger sr9c? I spent alot of time between these exact guns (research and handling) and the xdm9c..then I handled the sr9c , felt the trigger and had alot of features I wanted..instantly sold. It's about you and if it feels good in your hand. I bet if you handled the fnx9 you would get it. It felt the best in my hand but I just love the sr9c. A thousand trouble free rounds.
^ +1 for SR9C, pretty much the same setup as the M&P but with a much nicer trigger and about the same price as the PX4

sixxgunnernick
September 8, 2011, 01:41 AM
Actually the px4 is on sale at my local gunstore for 480..the sr9c last month was 380.00 but it went up to 419.00..

ClydeFrog
September 8, 2011, 04:01 AM
Over the last few years, 2008-2011, I'd say the Beretta PX4 Storm or the Smith and Wesson M&P series have got a lot more support & + press than the Ruger SR9c. The compact 9x19mm SRc did get a few industry nods but to my limited knowledge no major LE agency(more than 200 sworn members of service) has bought or started to issue Ruger SR9c sidearms.
Beretta USA and S&W have earned many police/security industry contracts.
I'd add that the PX4 subcompact can support a compact or full size PX4 pistol.
Ruger does not yet offer a sub-compact SR model in 9x19mm or .40S&W.
Clyde

tahunua001
September 8, 2011, 06:44 AM
Over the last few years, 2008-2011, I'd say the Beretta PX4 Storm or the Smith and Wesson M&P series have got a lot more support & + press than the Ruger SR9c. The compact 9x19mm SRc did get a few industry nods but to my limited knowledge no major LE agency(more than 200 sworn members of service) has bought or started to issue Ruger SR9c sidearms.
Beretta USA and S&W have earned many police/security industry contracts.
I'd add that the PX4 subcompact can support a compact or full size PX4 pistol.
Ruger does not yet offer a sub-compact SR model in 9x19mm or .40S&W.
Clyde

the main reason for this is that Ruger does not pursue M&P contracts. smith and wesson and beretta campaign heavily to get departments to consider their products. ruger has a LEO sale rep but they pretty much just sit and wait for PDs to come to them. even though a lot of police departments dont issue the SR9/40 I know a lot of veteran glock/M&P users that are starting to eye the SR9/40 very closely to take the place of the glock 17s and M&P9s that they've carried in service for years.

MLeake
September 8, 2011, 07:15 AM
I was interested in the SR9 when it first came out. My LGS had a rental. Guess I am odd man out, but I really disliked the SR9 trigger.

tahunua001
September 8, 2011, 08:18 AM
I was interested in the SR9 when it first came out. My LGS had a rental. Guess I am odd man out, but I really disliked the SR9 trigger.

there are many that share your view when they first came out. the rental you shot more than likely had the Pre-recall trigger group in it. the new post recall triggers are a lot nicer and apparently the C models have perfected it, a lot of people that shot and hated the triggers on the full size love the ones on the Cs

18DAI
September 8, 2011, 08:41 AM
PX4 on trigger alone. Regards 18DAI.

Nordeste
September 8, 2011, 09:46 AM
I haven't tested an MP9 but did so with an MP9Pro, and still didn't like the trigger (which is improved in this version). In general, no striker fired pistol has pleased me, and I prefer traditional hammer fired pistols.

I own a PX4F and use a 92FS and duty pistol, and don't konw which one I like the most. Certainly the DA pull on the PX4 is long and heavy, but the SA pull is a pleasure. And you can get a PX4 without a safety if you prefer it that way, but with an F version you can decock your hammer and leave it on safe, or just decock and bring it to the fire position. The pistol is perfectly safe to be carried with one in the pipe and with no safety (a firing pin automatic safety takes care of that) and IMO, it's safer than a striker pistol in that sense. That long and heavy trigger pull will make it harder for an AD to happen.

I'd go PX4 between those two.

Roland Thunder
September 8, 2011, 11:05 AM
I have an M&P 45c and if I get another 9mm it will probably be the M&P 9mm. What has been said about the trigger is true, though. I had the Apex kit, as described above, installed in mine.

I also like the trigger on the SR9c, nice gun with a great price.

Boats
September 8, 2011, 11:21 AM
Hickock45 had no trouble with the stock PX-4 trigger even though DA/SA is not his preference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a0sgiIlykI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

sixxgunnernick
September 9, 2011, 10:50 PM
The sr9c is a carry gun not a sidearm or duty gun. It would make a good back up gun though. It did get some handgun of the year in 2010, that's what I read in a couple places. These choices are all good guns, it comes down to the individuals. I wouldn't complain about having the fnx9 and px4.

iMagUdspEllr
September 10, 2011, 03:13 AM
Despite having DA/SA guns for a year now I hate it. I don't like how the PX4 safety is designed and I don't like the DA/SA action. I am planning on getting a M&P .40 VTAC for my next gun but I need to rent an M&P at my local range before I decide. I think I will prefer the more Glock-like trigger.

ClydeFrog
September 10, 2011, 06:02 AM
To me both brands offer a lot. If you want a robust pistol with a frame mounted ambi-safety lever(s) then go with a M&P model.
If you plan to carry the weapon concealed, aren't working as a sworn LE or armed security/EP agent or plan to be in low threat areas mostly, a C/constant model PX4 makes sense.
I bought the new M&P because it was a great deal and it came with a frame mounted ambi-safety. I can carry it on a duty belt or concealed if needed but I'll have a extra layer of protection in terms of retention/weapon security.
For many uniformed or armed posts, sidearms are drawn often but rarely fired. The chances of needing to arrest or detain a criminal subject or being able to prevent a weapon snatch are a lot higher than a armed citizen with a concealed license. Speed and reaction times are better with a DA only type pistol for a concealed carry user than a service type pistol with several safety features.
As many gunners have stated before, you can have a lot of speed or a lot of security but you can not have both. ;)

Rugerismisticness
September 10, 2011, 06:20 AM
I've shot both in both 9mm and .40S&W. The M&P shoots a bit better for me, it seemed to be a bit more comfortable with the lower bore axis. The trigger was excellent on the one I shot (9mm Pro model), but I do realize that most M&Ps have poor triggers that are easy to work. I like the PX4 also, but they seem to have more issues. The 9mm model has a polymer feed ramp that cracks. I like the recoil characteristics of the PX4, it's very low and drawn out because of the longer length the slide has to travel. The PX4 is certainly a better looking gun, but I could't quite get it as accurate as the M&P Pro. With the M&P Pro I was around 1.5" at 20 yards, the Px4 was around 3". Both with junk UMC ammo and S&B

jayhan
September 17, 2011, 06:25 PM
the m&p may be a hundred dollars more but i know if you buy the px4 your going to get a plastic trigger, guide rod and decocker. so if the m&p is using steel on those components pay the extra hundred. I bought a springfield xd over the px4 why? the xd had a steel trigger and guide rod and was 20 dollars cheaper.

Justice06RR
September 21, 2011, 04:43 AM
I wont argue about LEO use as a gauge of how good a gun is, in fact I believe we've agreed on a lot of other threads involving similar topics. I'm just saying that many cops already swear by the M&P, though many also swear by glocks but that doesn't mean I'm going to run out and buy one

I know you don't have to cock a DA hammer to shoot but there is a helluve difference between 6 pound trigger pull and 12(on M9s, I dont remember the PX4s off the top of my head). again I agree that you can get good with discipline.

and as far as DOA, it's a gray area with many shooters, if you cant manually cock the striker, then there is only one action and every time the slide cycles it cocks the striker automatically(single action definition). I also see the DOA side of the argument too but I will keep my trap shut and just agree to disagree.

also the DAO trigger on an M&P is still just as manageable as the single action on a PX4. but I will concede that I did not know you could get a PX4 without the slide safety lever...that would throw it drastically higher on list of guns I may buy someday.

all that said, I'd still take the PX4 over the M&P


And i'd take an M&P over the PX4.

Everyone has their own opinions and experiences. The PX4 is a great gun, but so is the M&P. Both have great triggers (yes I actually like the PX4's DA/SA trigger).

In the end its up to the person which gun they want to buy. We can all give our suggestions and opinions. As for me, I give the M&P 2 Big thumbs up (from experience owning 2 of them). Never owned PX4 but its on the wish list.

TBT
September 21, 2011, 01:58 PM
My lone experience with the PX4 series is with the compact version and it wasn’t favorable. A friend of mine bought two of these, one for him and one for his wife. When he got them he thought it was great that they were consecutive serial numbers. Not so much when they both starting experiencing serious issues. Her gun the decocker broke within the first couple of weeks. It simply stopped dropping the hammer. I went to the range with them once and fired both guns at length. I’m not the best shot but I can hit a paper-plate size target at will from 25 yards off-hand and can normally hold groups with my M&P at about 4” at 15 yards. I’m not a world beater, but I’m proficient.

I couldn’t hit paper with either of these guns at 10 yards. He had slightly better luck, she had the same issues that I did. Obviously something slipped past QC with these two guns and I wouldn’t judge the lineup or Beretta based on that experience. I would comment on Beretta’s response to these issues but my friend is a mouth breather and hasn’t contacted them. The guns just sit, as is, in a safe. Who am I to judge right?

From a design standpoint I dislike the slide mounted safety (not a fan of a safety on a double action to begin with) and I dislike the high bore-axis which to me just slows down the handling of the gun. It feels large in the hands, even being a compact. It feels blocky to me. Looks are subjective and I won’t comment on that. I’m sure if the safety and bore axis are a plus for you then this would be a fine choice. I’m personally not a fan.

The M&P seems to be the only gun that I post about on these boards. That’s probably because that’s the gun I’m most confident talking about and wouldn’t want to lead anyone down the wrong path. I’ve extended experience with Glock, SIG, and several 1911 manufacturers but the M&P9 is currently my passion. It’s quite simply a fantastic firearm and a fine choice for near any application.

The gun is a fast and soft shooter, quick to return to target and easy on the hands. Where guns with a high bore axis feel awkward to me, the M&P feels like a racehorse. I own two of these M&P9’s, one without the manual safety and one with (purchased in anticipation of installing the Apex FSS trigger kit). Both have been completely and utterly reliable. I’ve tried to get them to malfunction and have failed (I could try harder but you know…I don’t want to). Great shooter, boringly reliable, acceptable accuracy for a combat firearm, and backed by a fantastic company that pulls no punches when asked to man up and stand behind their products.

The stock trigger on some of these guns can be rough. That’s about as best I can put it. Some can feel gritty and heavy. While this smoothes out very well over time and will almost certainly become a very functional trigger, it still is what it is and that’s limited by the engineering behind several components in the mechanism. Both of my M&P9’s are bone stock currently although I do have extended experience with the Apex DCAEK and some quality time with the new FSS Trigger kit. These kits (depending on your preference) will absolutely transform this gun into a thing of beauty. My opinion of course, but I think that especially the FSS Kit makes a drastic difference and puts the M&P trigger in the same league as some stock 1911 triggers. Yeah, that’s a $90-159 (depending on what you want) more but that can be down the road if you need to wait. It’s an option if the stock trigger doesn’t grow on you. Just know that it can be an amazing trigger if you aren’t happy.

I know it’s taboo to talk about LEO contracts and I agree. Winning the contracts is not a gauge of success. But the reviews of the LEO that use them in real world situations can be. When the overwhelming majority of LEO Glock users swear by them, that says something. Smith and Wesson’s M&P series is nowhere near there yet but the early reviews are extremely favorable. A good place to start on that front if you’re inclined to do homework is the m4carbine forums.

I am not aware of any serious known issues regarding either of these firearms that I would be concerned with. Every once in a while a manufacturer will drop the ball and a lemon gets out. I’ve not heard or seen anything that would make me expect anything less than a quality firearm from either of these manufacturers. I could note that the M&P series can fall victim to tolerance stacking and some exhibit less than stellar accuracy at ranges 25 yards and more. I’ve never encountered this but I do have to say that it is enough of an issue that Randy at Apex has devoted a good amount of time to fixing it. In these guns especially, the higher velocity ammunition seems to mitigate the issue somewhat. If for some reason you get one of these guns I am fully confident that Smith and Wesson will fix the problem in a timely manner.