View Full Version : Baton, staff fighting questions

Oleg Volk
June 13, 2000, 09:29 PM
I would like to learn the basics of using batons for defensive uses. I am reasoning that they are easily improvised, generally legal and better than nothing. Can anyone point me to on-line or local Minnesotan resources...or offer advice?

Oleg "peacemonger" Volk


June 13, 2000, 11:13 PM
The general gist I've gotten from friends who are into MA is that arts like Eskrima and Silat are really good. There are probably several more that I don't know about. If you're a mere citizen, I dunno if you are going to find someone who teaches a PR-24 specific class.

Here are some URLs I've found that might help; http://www.dogbrothers.com/ http://members.xoom.com/eskrima/ http://www.e-budo.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi

June 14, 2000, 05:24 PM
Oleg there is a place called "Kali group" or some such up in the metro area...they are very good from what I understand. When I was at Hamline I trained with the best hand to hand person I have ever met and that was where he went to spar and drill with people. They get high quality visiting instructors from time to time (Danny Insanto for instance I think).

I don't have the phone number anymore but if you have access to metro phone book should be able to find it with a few calls.

June 15, 2000, 07:13 AM
I've heard this place mentioned favorable. It has a nice selection of arts.


From the Committee to Use Proffesional Politicians as Lab Animals
She doesn't have bad dreams because she's made of plastic...
bad Kiki! No karaoke in the house!
You will be assimilated. Resistance is E/I

[This message has been edited by crobrun (edited June 15, 2000).]

June 15, 2000, 09:55 AM
Thanks for the link. I should try to get up there at least once every other month [only a 1.5 hour drive]

Rich Lucibella
June 15, 2000, 11:45 PM
As a student/former student of various martial arts, I'll second the vote for Filipino style in use of the baton/edged weapon. The various Kali/Escrima styles concentrate on range and practical tactics.

June 16, 2000, 02:45 PM
Try http://www.canemasters.com/
Last I looked, they had a video and a no-nonsense outlook.

The Bill of Rights, and the Golden Rule are enough for civilized behavior. The rest is window dressing. Shoot carefully, swifter...

[This message has been edited by swifter... (edited June 16, 2000).]

Rich Lucibella
June 16, 2000, 11:00 PM
Mark Shuee from CaneMasters is well known to me....I urge all traveling to NJ, NY, CA and 47 other foreign countries to check out his products. They're well worth it.

His training dogma is most effective...however, it's also most "Japanese". This is not a bad thing, but it should prepare you for lots of "kata"---basic type repetition. Again, not a bad thing....if you master Mark's style, you'll probably beat the next guy that's carrying a cane....except, maybe, the Chinese cane masters. If you just want to learn to survive a street encounter with Joe-Practiced-in-Prison-with-a-homeade-shiv as quickly as possible, go Filipino.

June 19, 2000, 11:07 AM
Good take. The Kukishin stick work I practice is terrific, but depends a lot on good timing and distance. Hard to beat, but time-intensive.

Oleg Volk
June 19, 2000, 02:12 PM
I have met someone who's going to teach me the basics of staff handling (she prefers swords but keeps other tools around, too). Ought to be interesting and, just maybe, I will learn without any broken limbs.

June 21, 2000, 12:36 PM
Good luck with your training. I further support the idea of training in Kali, escrima for stick training as those arts utilize weapons like the stick very much. You'll learn a lot of other cool stuff there as well.

Young Buck
June 23, 2000, 04:51 PM
I'm not trained in it (heh, technically at least) but logic would bely:
1) pull out suddenly
2) deploy
3)go for kneecaps first, as these are hardest to block for without anticipation.
(Use it at your own risk, I'd recommend a class :) )

To ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth.

June 23, 2000, 07:44 PM
Agree with the concept of going for the kneecaps first, unless you get lucky enough to get an opening to attack the face, eyes, head, neck. A poolcue shot (with very fast retraction!) into the solar plexis could be a useful move. Now we have low, high, and midline attacks. I would not try to attack the groin because that is something everyone instinctively defends. But I would not ignore it if it was open. And if a suitable golf club happens to be in your hands, I bet you could really make an impression on the leading ankle.

Some people have a way with words. Others not have way.

June 23, 2000, 09:47 PM
oleg, we have a 2day course that we do for security/police/military on defensive tactics. one day of this course is spent on the baton (impact tools). we have developed this course for the use and carry of the collapsable baton. i have never done this course for the general public, but would consider doing so if the interest is there.

sully www.defensive-edge.net (http://www.defensive-edge.net)

June 24, 2000, 02:37 AM
A kneecap isn't really that big of a target, especially when it's moving about.

The Common Peroneal Nerve, running from just above the mid-thigh line to just above the knee on the outside of the thigh is a bigger target. Plus, a solid, authoritative whack on the Common Peroneal will often cause a sympathetic reaction in the same nerve on the other leg, causing the critter to lose all muscle control below the waist.

The downside to this strike is that it relies on nerve shock to take the critter out of the fight, whereas shattering the kneecap destroys the structural ability of the leg to hold weight.


June 26, 2000, 02:29 AM
Take a look at Escrima. Try it's number system for striking. Go slow, injuries are likely if you go too hard too soon. Get a feel for this simple drill of fundamentals. Then start hitting a good bag or Training dummy full power. Soon you be the guy to watch out for on the street.

June 27, 2000, 06:56 PM
Depending on stance, kneecaps may not be that accessible, unless you have a longer stick, in which case an ankle strike (ashi bari) is much harder to stop.

Hard Ball
July 24, 2000, 04:17 PM
The Japanese Jp is very effective but it is more of a staff thn a baton being @ 40 to 45 inhes long. The man who is credited with inventing it defeated the famous samurai Miamoto Mushshi with one in a registered duel. This was the only registered duel that Miamoto Mushshi ever lost.