41 or 44 mag for woodsgun

[9mm]

Which is a better caliber a 41 or 44? whats the difference?

so many calibers, 41,44,45 lol

Please do not go to the Semiauto part of glocks. I already looked into those. I would rather use a revolver.

This is a woodsgun/hiking/bear defence.

How does a 357 compare to the 41/44? would a 357 work for bear defence?


Also the 44 more ammo is easy to find.

[Chesster]

If you handload, a .41 is a wonderful treasure and should handle most anything the .44 can handle. If you shoot primarily factory, go with the .44M. You can also shoot .44 Special and Russian for lighter loads. I personally like the Ruger Blackhawk in .41Mag.

[9mm]

Ruger Blackhawks are great, but not for CC. Lol

[Daryl]

The .41 is a very nice, and very capable cartridge, but I'd choose the .44 mag if you're planning on shooting factory stuff. .41 is tough to find, and expensive when you find it.

.357 mag might handle a bad situation with a bear. It's also a very capable all-around cartridge, but for a trail gun in the backcountry I prefer something bigger.

My personal choice is a large frame Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt loaded with 300 grain bullets over a stout charge of H110.

[22-rimfire]

It is mostly personal taste and choices made in terms of what you use a revolver for whether you choose a 41 or 44 mag revolver. I think a person should master shooting a 357 mag before stepping up to either the 41 or 44 mag.

Generally speaking, the 41 mag covers the power interval between 357 mag and 44 mag. It is reported to be about 30% less recoil than the 44 mag with essentially the same results gained in slightly smaller bullet. Most people shoot 41 mags in the 180 to 220 gr range with 250-265 grain being about the heaviest. With 44 mag, you can go up to 300 gr with the right revolver.

My personal favorite in this power range is the 41 mag (M57). I have had 44 mag revolvers (M29) and much prefer the 41 mag. I simply shoot it better than 44 mags. My woods gun if I am not carrying a 22 is usually a 4" S&W M57 Mountain Gun loaded with 210 gr JSP.

The 357 mag is the most versatile factory loaded caliber as you can shoot both 357 mags and 38spl's. It is big enough for bear defense unless the bear is dead set on killing you or eating you. It is a good caliber for the lower 48 states to carry while hiking and so forth as the gun is often not as large and heavy as the 41/44 mag revolvers. The Ruger GP-100 is hard to beat after it smooths out a bit.

There is less expensive 41 mag ammo around if you don't reload. It is good to keep a supply on hand as sometimes it is hard to find.

[Rifleman1776]

.44 mag. It is versitile and will do any job you might call on a handgun to do. And it is shootable by most people. The cannons (e.g. .454 and up) are more novelties, IMHO, and are not controlable by most (any?) people.
And, btw, 9mm, I carried my 7 1/2" Redhawk concealed with a shoulder holster under a jacket. Comfortable and accessible. And, I am not a very big person.
For loads less than bear-worthy, it can be happily loaded down with lighter bullets. I liked the 215 gr. for daily shooting. Used many thousands of them in mine. As for the 180 gr. bullets, I could never get good accuracy from them.

[9mm]

Thanks!

[rclark]

It is mostly personal taste and choices +1 . Only thing is if you don't reload, the .44Mag is much easier to find ammo for. And you can shoot .44Spec for lighter shooting if you can find them. Win/win. I reload, so for me ... the .45 Colt Vaquero or a .45 Colt BH is what I carry.

[Noreaster]

44 mag is a little easier to feed, but the 41 mag is no slouch. Look for a story on line from Foggy Mountain Guide Service. The owner did a nice piece on handguns for black bear. His favorite is the 41 mag with a cheap 210 sp bullet.

[KBP75]

Both handguns are awsome! I own both. I like the .41 magnum better because of its lighter recoil and flatter shooting ballistics. Many people are not aware of this. In addition, the .41 will deal with anything the .44 will handle. IMO, a well placed shot(easier for most people with a .41) will give better results than a poorly placed shot with the .44 because of the heavier recoil. I have had no problems getting cheap ammo for my .41 because I reload. Just buy bulk shells, powder and bullets.

[longranger]

Junk the jacketed bullet and shoot a good hard cast bullet, it will out perform a jacketed bullet all day every day.Pick your cartridge and a platform that suits you,why go with a single action when you can have double ? 4" N frame is about as perfect as it gets..41 Mag will do everything better than .357 Mag and equal to the .44 Mag.in all but the heaviest load and bullets.

[Smaug]

.357 mag is out, IMO. Unless you are willing to admit to yourself that bear spray is better for bears.

My choice of woods carry combo would be bear spray and a nice 22LR. Very few animals will continue their attack after getting hit with a 22LR, and for those, bear spray will work.

[.wheelgunner.]

If you examine the ballistics of comparable bullet weights between the 41 mag and 44 mag, there's not much difference. Actually, a bear hit with a 41 mag will go down thinking he got shot with a 44.

[orionengnr]

I am a handloader, I have owned both, and today I only own a .41 Mag. Others will choose the other side.

Either cartridge benefits from handloading; the .41 practically demands it (if you like to shoot a lot).

I find the .41 Mag to be an exceptionally enjoyable cartridge to load and shoot.
I also load and shoot the .45LC, .357 Mag, .45acp, 10mm and one or two others.

[mes227]

I have all three calibers and they are all excellent. I have two .44Mags, two .41Mags and one .45 Colt plus two larger calibers that chamber the .45 Colt (.454 Casull and .460 Mag). My favorite is probably the Lew Horton S&W .41 mag, but the two mountain guns are great choices for hiking and backpacking (.44 Mag and .45 Colt). Ballistics of the .41Mag and .44Mag are, for most practical purposes, identical. I like the uniqueness of the .41, but ammo availability is certainly best for the .44mag (of all three). The .44Mag / .44Special gives you a great power range that the others can't match without reloading and the .44Spc is a fantastic self defense load. The .41Mag factory load options are the most limited of the three, though there are now at least 2 companies loading .41Special which gives you a great target and SD load. I order on-line in bulk and my son reloads, so for me it's not an issue. If you reload you can juice-up the .45 colt to match the ballistics of either of the others, and with the larger diameter bullet (.454 v .429 for the .44Mag and .41) it can have a little greater stopping power (check the TKOs for the hotest loads). If you plan on shooting a LOT you'll find that the .45 Colt is much gentler on the gun because it develops much lower chamber pressures, and for the same reason it tends to have less recoil for the same ballistics. If you buy a Redhawk, BFR or Freedom Arms it won't matter as those things can eat as many hot loads as you throw at them, but with essentially any other platform the more full-house mags you shoot the more your revolver will show the ware.

But then again, I've never met a round I didn't like! I also shoot .38Spc, .357Mag, 9mm, .45acp, 10mm, .357Maxi, .375SuperMag, .445SuperMag, .480Ruger, .454Casull and .460Mag.

[Roaddog]

I have a Ruger 44 mag Redhawk and Grey ,my shootn pardner has a 41 mag, S&W WE BOUTH SHOOT 240 GR jhp on top of 2400gr, of simuler loads, brain fart on the exsact loads. But I would feel safe with ether on in a tite spot. They are no slouch. we realod and 41 is hardre to get amo for but are bouth outstanding guns. Just my 2 cents worth.;)

[EdInk]

Go with the .44magnum. I recommend something by Ruger. My preference is for the 5.5" Redhawk. Reason? Since I don't hunt with it, there is no need for a longer barrel. The shorter barrels are even harder recoiling and you do lose a little velocity. I like the double action because if I'm staring at an angry bear, wild hog, bigfoot, etc., I may not have time or remember to cock a single action. The definite reliablity of the revolver has already been discussed. My .02 on the subject.

[Buzzcook]

For the average black bear, .357 will work. It isn't a good idea to use any handgun for dangerous game. Bear spray really is better.

Between the .41 and .44 it's just a matter of taste. If you're doing a lot of walking remember to get a good holster.

[GeauxTide]

I've loaded 41, 44, and 45LC for a long time. My 41s and 44s have 7.5" barrels. My 44spl and 45LC are in 5.5". In a El Paso Saddlery 1920 Crossdraw, they spend more time with me than the others. Loaded to 1100fps, they are both very effective with 240-275gr bullets.

[Old Grump]

7 1/2" of 44 mag on my hip or 4" of 41 mag on my hip. Easy choice. I'm getting old and creaky and the old Ruger Blackhawk was getting to me so I switched to the smaller Smith and Wesson. Under 50 yards deer critter can't tell the difference.

[Daryl]

My choice of woods carry combo would be bear spray and a nice 22LR. Very few animals will continue their attack after getting hit with a 22LR,

Ok, but don't forget to remove that front site. ;)

Daryl

[9mm]

Quote:
My choice of woods carry combo would be bear spray and a nice 22LR. Very few animals will continue their attack after getting hit with a 22LR,

Ok, but don't forget to remove that front site.

Daryl

Thanks for the tip guys, I didn't even know. We don't need all these high powerd guns because a 22lr will most likely stop animals from their attacks. :rolleyes:

[SRH78]

Of those choices, I would definitely go with the 44. You can always shoot 44 specials to make it more versatile but when the feces hits the fan, bigger bullets carrying more energy are better than smaller ones carrying less energy. The 41, besides being less powerful, will be a lot harder to get ammo for and have much less of a selection. If you handload, ammo isn't as much of an issue but it still won't have the energy the 44 does. The 357 is a great round but it just doesn't throw nearly as much lead down range. The power just isn't there. As long as you can handle it and shoot it accurately, there is no such thing as too much gun. If you ever have to use it, I don't think you will be standing there wishing you had a less powerful gun in your hands.

[Kreyzhorse]

If you don't handload the .44 mag is more versatile. Additionally ammo is likely easier to find than a .41.

[22-rimfire]

If I were starting from scratch, I would probably buy a DA 44 mag revolver. I'm not very interested in shooting the maximum power loading or 300 gr bullets with one. The 240's are fine with me. If you think 41 mag ammo is hard to find, then try finding reasonably price 44 special ammo. Shooting 44 specials is something folks say on the forums, but I suspect most only shoot factory 44 special ammo in revolvers chambered for 44 special. Hand load the 44 mag down a bit.

I will say that once you really shoot a 41 mag, you will not need a 44 mag and in my case, I didn't even want to own one after a couple years of experience with the 41 mag.

Power is a great thing, but do you really need it? If I want power, I shoot something MORE powerful than a 44 mag.

[shafter]

Being a handloader, I would go with the 41 just to be different. Everybody's got a 44.

[yournodaisy]

I remember a beautifull trip to Montanas Bob Marshall wilderness area hunting
for black bears. There are also grizzlys there as well. I felt very comfortable with my Ruger blackhawk in .41 mag. It's very unigue caliber. Wish I still had it. I'm partial to the .41;s..but thats just me!

[mes227]

Being a handloader, I would go with the 41 just to be different. Everybody's got a 44.


+1

[Alaska444]

I just got my .44 Ruger SRH, 7.5 inch for woods gun in Idaho. I don't reload and likely never will making ammo choice critical. In addition, some of the Buffalo Bore or Garrett loads approach .454 Casull strength adding an entirely new dimension to this debate. I shot the .454 Casull and almost bought it until I had thought about it for a few days and then decided to go with the .44 instead. Recoil is an issue, but the .44 is not that bad especially with moderate loads. It is all a personal choice for each of us.

[smee78]

Really it is all about personal taste. I have a 45LC & 357 & 44 and just picked up a Redhawk in 41 so I have just about all bases covered, I really do not have a use for them all but each is just a little bit different to make things fun. What ever you do just be aware that in BFE when you walk into a small sporting goods store in the middle of nowhere they may not have 45LC or 41mag ammo.

P.S. I reload to feed my habbit:(

[jmr40]

.357 mag is out, IMO. Unless you are willing to admit to yourself that bear spray is better for bears.

Bear spray is a better choice than a firearm for any bear situation.

A 357 mag is more than adequate for BLACK bears. If you plan on being in the woods with grizzlies then more power is needed. Almost all black bears are smaller than adult male humans, and not that much harder to kill. You don't need a cannon for BLACK bear protection.

I carry a gun when in the outdoors, but believe that you are far more likely to actually need the gun for defense against humans and make my choices based on that. When in an area where there is zero chance of a bear encounter I'd carry a 9mm just as I would in the city. In the woods I prefer something that is capable of double duty and I choose a Glock in 10mm. I know you said not to recommend autos, I'm not.

A good revolver in either 357, 41 or 44 is an excellent choice, with proper ammo. As said earlier you don't NEED the 44 mag power, but if you like the round and can shoot it well there is no reason not to choose it.

My first centerfire revolver was a 41 mag and I have a soft spot for them. If you want to be different, it is a good round. But in reality it offers no advantages over the more versatile, 44 mag.

[WildBill45]

The primary question would be, WHAT WOODS? Are we talking Ohio, or Alaska?
Everywhere but Alaska, and in some cases Alaska, I would say a .44 mag. is a versatile handgun indeed. Since a .41 is the same weight as the .44 or close enough for this example, the .44 mag. is easier to get ammo in a variety of power levels.

If you are talking serious Alaska, off the road type stuff, I would start with a .454 or 500! The .454 can shoot .45 Colt for practice, and now they make a 500 short for a ligher choice in that caliber!

A woods gun is like a CCW gun ... carry comfort is the main usage, but when you need it, YOU NEED IT, and it damn well better be up for the job!:eek:

[yournodaisy]

I would say shoot what you shoot the best. If you can hit with a 41 fine..if a 500 or 454 is too much and you cant hit with it..then it's not for you. I would rather hit with a 44 or 41..then miss with a 454 or 500.

[Deja vu]

I would go with the 44mag. Not only are the bullets bigger but ammo is more available as well.

I am not picking on the 41 cause I think that the 41 is a fine round but I think the 44 is a better woodsgun.

[radom]

Me I think the .41 is a better woods gun as it shoots flatter than a .44 in general and at 300yds in most factory store loads its packs more energy. I bet not many bears tend to debate on well I was killed with a .41 no I am tougher I was killed with a .44.

[Alaska444]

A 300 yard hand gun!! Sorry, not to disparage the .41 by any means, but who shoots anything at 300 yards with a hand gun? Certainly not ordinary folks. Isn't the purpose of a "woods" gun self defense against creatures with claws and jaws up close?

The terminal ballistics at 300 yards is not even in my equation of getting a woods gun. If I want terminal ballistics at 300 yards, then I will use my 300 wsm in Browning BLR. If I am just out walking about and want some measure of protection, I will have my .44 magnum SRH. If I want a woods gun for short range protection, I bump up to my .444 Marlin with 335 gr Buffalo Bore on my right shoulder and my .44 magnum in cross carry on the left. Just my own system that works well for me.

P.S. I don't reload so in my mind, having the .44 is the best I can handle as far as recoil with either Garrett or Buffalo Bore heavy loads. The .454 was more than I wanted to utilize. Just my own take on a woods gun.

[rclark]

Me I think the .41 is a better woods gun as it shoots flatter than a .44 Hmmm, I too 'question' the meaningfulness of this statement (you see it all the time with speaking of .41Mag) when it comes to self defense/woods gun. When I have to 'pull' the threat in question will be 50 yards or less (more likely closer) .... not 300 yards.... not 100 yards... So, seems this really doesn't matter in this situation. Even hunting.... To me handgun hunting should be within handgun ranges 100 yards or less.... Use a rifle if greater.... but that is just me speaking.

[WESHOOT2]

The 44 Magnum cartridge is better.
Better because its diameter is larger, its projectiles heavier, and its potential higher.
Plus you can buy its ammo most anywhere.

I had all four Redhawk chamberings in 5.5" versions, and with significant ammo development finished, kept the 44.
I could have kept any, including the 45 Colt, but the 44 is enough, as I will not be facing big browns or African game.

I used all but the 357 (I use my 7.5" version in that chambering) for USPSA competition, and only shoot them DA.

[Nevmavrick]

Daryl has the right idea. It's called the "Alaska modification". The rest is that it needs to be slathered in bacon grease before inserting into a loose-fitting holster.
When I walked the "woods" of SE Alaska, I carried an M58 S&W loaded with hard-cast 210gr SWC and as much Herco or 2400 I could shove into a case. If I was going to be gone a while, and had a backpack, I had a holster mounted on the LBE...Otherwise I carry a high-mounted hip holster.
Now that I've moved south, I carry the same gun, but use either a SWCHP or a 170gr TC, loaded to about 900fps.
It matters not a whit what I carry because ALL my ammo is handloaded. I haven't fired a factory cartridge from one of my guns for well over 30 years. Anything THEY do, I can do better.
Unless there was some reason I couldn't carry a rifle, I'd have one. My choice is my M71 Winchester carbine. Mine is a .375 and I fear nothing....under 25 yards.
The only reason one would carry a .22 pistol is that he's not going to shoot anything bigger than a Spruce Grouse (Hooter) Except...his hiking partner, in the leg!
Bear spray? Sure...bears like spicy food, too.
The best defence is paying attention to your surroundings, but sometimes that doesn't work, so using something you're used to is better. You don't have time to think...an automatic reaction is faster than a planned one!
There are three things that you need...practice, practice, and when that's done....practice!
Have fun,
Gene

[KBP75]

This discussion reminds me of the of the question "which is a better hunting rifle a .270 or a 30-06"? The answer is in BOTH cases is; "The ONE YOU FEEL the most comfortable with." Either caliber is so close in performance that it makes no real difference! The only factor is in the preference of the shooter! Try both calibers then you decide. Their is no wrong answer! :D

[BigBill]

200+ yds with a handgun? I believe Elmer Keith did it with a 4'' barrel magnum. "hitchcock45" on you tube makes his shot again.

The 357mag, the 41mag and the 44mag has killed every north american game. Now the only difference is which brand of revolver you purchase. The S&W's won't like a steady diet of the stouter loads(hotter). As to where the rugers will eat digest any thing hot all the time. I have owned the 44's for eons but i'm just getting into the 41's. Bill

[jhgreasemonkey]

Either is fine, but for me since I don't reload I go with the .44 magnum. My favorite woods gun is a 5.5" stainless redhawk with pachmyer grippers. It's a joy to shoot and is trouble free, shoot it and forget about it, no screws to rattle loose, no tuning needed. It fits me good so accuracy comes naturaly. I like it so much that I stopped using and ended up trading off my other .44 magnum which was a nice stainless super blackhawk 7.5" that I had installed a taller front sight on, black and silver laminated ruger grips and polished the stainless finish heavily. I just couldn't bear having it sit in the safe never getting enjoyed so it got a new owner. It also really soaked up the recoil and was pleasant to shoot. It was a nice woods gun also. I like that with the .44 magnum there is lot's of factory ammo from mild to wild power levels.

[TenRing]

Either the .41 mag or the .44 mag will work. It really depends on what you're going to do with it and what woods you plan to spend time in. My hunting partners routinely kill large black bears with a .357 magnum. I have cleanly killed deer with my .44 mag Super Blackhawk Hunter at 75 yards and beyond. The .44 puts the deer down for the count and I have never lost one. I use 240 grain SJHP for deer.

I'm a fan of the .44 magnum. It is more versatile and there are more factory ammo choices.

Unless you are a collector or a guy who just wants to be different, there really isn't a reason to choose .41 mag over .44 mag. In the Smith N frame for example, the .41 is actually slightly heavier since less steel is removed for the smaller bore and cylinder chambers for a smaller caliber.

Everybody talks about bear protection in the woods. I have spent a whole lot of time in the woods all over the USA. Unless you're in grizzly territory such as Alaska or certain areas of the NW, you don't need to worry about grizzly bears. Black bears are more plentiful but they are relatively easy to avoid. Most black bear attacks happen when people come between a mamma bear and her cubs or when the bears are attracted to food scraps left behind by people.

In the midwest or southeast, your most likely threats will probably be wild cats, coyotes, predatory people, weed growers or meth cookers.

Once in California, I was charged by a wayward moose and I avoided the issue by backing up slowly. He eventually lost interest in me. I found out later that he just wanted to keep me away from his cow who was laying in the grass behind him.

If I were you, I would get the .44.

[BigBill]

TenRing, you hit on something because i thought my N frame 41mag's were a tad heavier for some reason but i couldn't figure out what it was.

Now if i was in this position thinking about which one i would test fire one first. One of my gun shops here has a gun rental and an indoor range. Probably because i'm just getting older the 7 1/2'' barreled 44 mags seem more comfortable to shoot with less recoil over the 5 1/2'' barreled 44's. I would test fire them first.

There have been more blackbear attacks, more than any other bear. I believe the blackbears are in higher numbers is the reason. If your in Grizz country bigger i definetly better like the 454casull or 500S&W if your a hiker/camper.

[youngunz4life]

I would choose the 44. I have tremendous confidence in that round but you know what opinions are like....

[wncchester]

"Which is a better caliber a 41 or 44? whats the difference?"

Well, without getting into an argument, fact is, for all it's merits, the .41 came and went. The .44 remains and it far outsells any .45. Maybe there's a useful message in all of that?

[Bruceak]

I like the .41 just fine though, like many, I load my own. You can buy Buffalo Bore which puts you right with most 44 loads. Common wisdom is that the smallest suitable pistol caliber for brown bear is the 44. I am comfortable with the 41 and the ballistics are nearly identical. Bear encounters where a handgun is used are measured in feet not yards. When in a group where I am the gun bearer I will chose my 870 with slugs but on my own I will carry a pistol. When hunting I have my 308 or 30-06. Don't be quick to shoot and if you feel you must, try a shot over their head first. Brown bear are well known to false charge so use discretion because once you shoot it is most likely going to keep coming. 28 years on Admiralty, Baranof, and Chichagof Islands I have never fired a gun at a bear (there are no black bears) or leveled on one. My son has twice fired to scare and ended the encounter.

[stevelyn]

If you are talking serious Alaska, off the road type stuff, I would start with a .454 or 500!

We bushkins have been getting along just fine for years with .41s and .44s. The .454s and .500s only start showing up the closer you get within gravitational pull of skAnchorage and Fairbanks.

I'm assuming you are talking L48 woods. In that case either the .41 or .44 will serve you well Hell. down there I wouln't exactly feel nekkid with a .357.

As others have posted if you don't reload the .44 is probably a more practical choice.

[44 AMP]

The problem with uber powerful hand cannons is that very, very few people can shoot them well, off the firing range, and some not even there.

Contrary to current internet wisdom, the .357 magnum is no slouch, and when loaded with the right bullets (usually not the 125gr JHP) will do for anything that walks in North America, if you are good enough, and can maintain grace under pressure.

And if you can't, no .41, .44, or anything else will do any better.

Black bear have been killed (defensively) with 9mm and even smaller rounds. Even the .45 auto has done its share.

Your best bear protection is your wits and awareness. Your best response is to use your brain, and your feet. A handgun is your last ditch defense, and to be used only as a last resort. And to near contact distance, a hugely powerful handgun might actually be a disadvantage.

Personally, I prefer the Miyagi defense. But I also remember the words of Elmer Keith and know that if you keep your nerve, nearly any handgun will allow you to prevail. Elmer never promised you wouldn't get hurt, only that you would prevail.;)

[S.B.]

You failed to mention where you live and which kind of bears? If you're well versed in handguns I would go with a .44 magnum?
Steve

[Daggitt]

Have to respectfully disagree with 44amp. IMHO a 357 is no bear gun. It is marginal for big deer. I think a 44 mag the minimum for the Brown Bear and would prefer 454 or a stout riflle for any Brown bear. I'd think a 44mag adequate for Black Bears. Unless you have problems with 44mag recoil , I'm confused why anyone would choose a 41 over a 44 if a bear is in anyway invoved.

[bamaranger]

As much as I am a cartridge guy, and intrigued with novel and unique rounds, unless you are a reloader, I'd shy away from the .41.

Neat cartridge, neat idea, but not common.

If you are buying ammo, .44 spl (not common either, but an option) will give you light practice, and full house .44 for whatever you feel you need it for.

[BIG P]

Both are great for the woods,get the best deal you can either was they wont let you down good luck;)

[Edward429451]

The 44 Mag is your best bet. Ammo is very common for it and reloading components are plentiful. It shines with cast lead boolits and with bullets ranging from 180 to 320 grains it is absolutely the most versatile cartridge of your lineup. If you cast for your 44 figure your cost roughly 4 dollars a box of 50 for ammo comparable to Buffalo Bore hunting loads.

I do save my 44 Special brass for my CA Bulldog and load light loads in 44 Mag brass also. Having some light loads around is great for letting the kids and girls shoot a "real" 44 Mag (without splitting their head open!).

[Kevinch]

As most have said above - the .41 MAG is a great cartridge, as is the .44 MAG. Buying loaded ammunition for the .41 will be more challenging & cost more than that of the .44, and although I didn't check I would guess the selection of revolvers for the .44 is greater too.

[jmr40]

Have to respectfully disagree with 44amp. IMHO a 357 is no bear gun. It is marginal for big deer. I think a 44 mag the minimum for the Brown Bear and would prefer 454 or a stout riflle for any Brown bear. I'd think a 44mag adequate for Black Bears. Unless you have problems with 44mag recoil

Were not talking about browns, but black bears. Virtually all black bear problems are caused by animals well under 200 lbs. I've never understood why someone feels adequately armed with a snub nose 38 against a 250 lb crack head, but feels they need a 44 mag to defend themselves against a 150 lb black bear. I find it most interesting that the folks who live and work around the big bears are the ones most comfortable with a 357 handgun.

I'm confused why anyone would choose a 41 over a 44 if a bear is in anyway invoved.

I'd personally choose the 44 simply because ammo is more common, but based purely on performance there is nothing the 44 does that a 41 will not do at least as well. You choose the 41 simply because you want to be different. I have no problem with that as long as performance does not suffer.

[redhawk41]

You choose the 41 simply because you want to be different.That is a fair statement and pretty much sums it up for me!

...and for large griz your best defense is lots of noise and awareness to avoid a surprising and unpleasant encounter, so my recommendation would be a decent sized cowbell...

[RETG]

Average weight of black bears in the USA is between 200 and 600 lbs. So not sure if they grow smaller in GA. I can say the ones I have seen in the Smokey Mountains were larger than 150 lbs. Here's one from Cades Cove area of the Smokey Mountains...Mom and her cubs, and I got the photo and then took a hasty retreat.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/f5fstop/Eastern%20States/Tennessee/standingbear.jpg


She actually had FOUR cubs....
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/f5fstop/Eastern%20States/Tennessee/BackofBears.jpg


Shooting through human skin is not the same as shooting through thick fur covered hide. That is one reason why a .40 with hollow point ammo is good to stop a human, but not recommended to stop a decent size black bear. Everything I have ever read on bear rounds states a good hard cast or solid round is the best.

I carry bear spray and a 4" .44 mag loaded with 300 gr FPPN Corbons. So far, I have pulled the .44 twice, once in CO and once in WY, but happy to say never had to fire it.

In CO, the bear was spooked and took off and he/she was well beyond the 150 lbs range. I had the .44 in my hands, just in case. Happy to say, I did not need it.

The one in WY got a dose of bear spray (something I purchased after the incident with the CO bear), and then as I was making my hasty exit, I pulled the .44 and kept my eyes on the bear. It worked, he/she took off like a drunken sailor.

And those black bears that have been noted to kill in the USA, and really not a common occurrence by any meas, have been over the 150 lb weight limit if I remember correctly when reading the articles.

If someone has other verifiable info on the weight being around 150, I would be glad to read it and it might change my mind. Not that that matters at all.

[mes227]

Were not talking about browns, but black bears. Virtually all black bear problems are caused by animals well under 200 lbs. I've never understood why someone feels adequately armed with a snub nose 38 against a 250 lb crack head, but feels they need a 44 mag to defend themselves against a 150 lb black bear. I find it most interesting that the folks who live and work around the big bears are the ones most comfortable with a 357 handgun.

I live in black bear country, have them in my yard at least monthly. I've never before heard anyone assert that attack risk is restricted to 200 lb bears and there's plenty of evidence to the contrary (the last bears to be shot and killed while attacked were both over 500 lbs, 2 summers ago, a mile or two from my house, and another last summer about 15 miles away). You also can't compare a 250 lb flabby, out of shape crack-head with a 150 lb wild animal (btw, there's not a single report in this area of such such a small bear ever having attacked a human). No one I know is comfortable with a .357 Mag in the back country. Every year or two there's a story of someone shooting one in self-defense with a magnum - last summer it was a .44 Mag at very close range - the bear was in the kitchen - and the bear literally shook it off. Even a .44 Mag isn't going to stop an adult black unless the round is ideally placed - something you may be able to do while hunting but not while being attacked.

[WildBill45]

The .44 is more versatile, with the .44 special for practice or personal defense, and it has a wider power range to use for various uses.

As far as black bears go, and I have taken a half dozen, they can grow big in the lower 48, with Pennsylvania black bears rivaling those in Alaska. We have had many Black Bears coming in near 800 pounds or more, and this is an official weight at state run bear check-in stations! The largest one I shot was in Alberta Canada, and it went at 600 pounds with a 20-inch skull. Do not under estimate black bears; they can be more dangerous than the Browns as they are predatory. This is why the Alaska Game commission and other states tell you to fight with everything you have when attacked by a black bear, as they intend to eat you. Browns and Grizz usually attack as they are doing self-defense from their perspective, as you did something that threatened them. They tell you to play dead for the Browns and Grizz as they will leave once the threat is gone most of the time.

The .44 Magnum is light for big bears, and especially so for the Grizz or Brown, but a step above the .41. It can work in a pinch, but if you have the choice carry heavy loads designed for penetration, as you won’t shock one with hollow points, and may not reach the vitals. Pound for pound there is no comparison to men of equal weight, we are weak compared to our animal friends. Bears can run as fast as a horse, and break a moose’s neck with a blow from his paw.

You can't always go by what folks do just based on where they live. You hunt with men where you live that are dumb and not knowledgeable, and that goes anywhere. Where you live does not tell you what they know, it only tells where they live. The average person in Zimbabwe has no idea what to do with a lion, as the average guy in Alaska does not know much about Brown bears. Pro hunters in both places are the guys to talk to, or truly experienced men that have actually done it.

[38superhero]

.44

[DunRanull]

Living here in Colorado Ive carried any number of sidearms in the wild. For many years the .45 auto with 230 gr solids handloaded HOT, using stronger aftermarket Wolff springs. One reason for the .45 is the possibility of human on human crime. Then carried but discarded a couple of .357s after hearing of a guy who was attacked by a bear and then killed AFTER he had emptied his .357 into the bear's face and mouth. I tried the .41 mag for a time but got rid of it simply because the weirded up Blackhawk I had didnt fit my needs. The round was fine and I loaded for it but I just didnt have a good vehicle for it. I have carried several .44mags, including a Mod 29 Smith 4 inch, a Ruger Redhawk 5.5, and an Uberti Buckhorn 5.5. The .44 is convenient, easy to load for, and there is ammo in about any Walmart. Ive loaded 240 gr solid hard-cast with enuff 2400 to rattle my fillings. Really tho, there is nothing wrong with the .41 in itself, and neither are really preferred if bears are on the agenda...

[dopar66]

The right handgun for bear defense is whatever caliber is necessary to get the slug gun from your hunting partner. ;)

[mes227]

Here's my new .41 mag hiking/woods gun: S&W 657PC 3" barrel.

[langenc]

As noted 357 may work for black bears-grizzy will need 44-with front sight filed off. Dont hurt so bad when bear jambs it home.

[orionengnr]

My choice of woods carry combo would be bear spray and a nice 22LR. Very few animals will continue their attack after getting hit with a 22LR
Just make sure to save (at least) the last three rounds for yourself...:)
Well, without getting into an argument, fact is, for all it's merits, the .41 came and went. The .44 remains and it far outsells any .45.
As to the first statement, the .41 has not gone anywhere. Several manufacturers still build .41s, and they have a loyal following. It is true that it is a handloader's cartridge, but as a handloader I have no problem with that.

With regard to the second statement...um, what?:rolleyes:

[WildBill45]

Nice looking piece!

Now all you need are woods appropriate loads for it. In my view that depends on where you carry it.

It is better to shoot stuff that is too small with big loads, than to shoot stuff that is too big with little loads!

[WildBill45]

I agree with the human on human crime, and that is a higher probability in Colorado than a bear attack! I lived near Divide and hunted your area. I used to carry a Detonics .45, 1911 for the same reason, then switched to a Freedom Arms .454 after a few run-ins with a bear first, and then a Mountain Lion! In both cases it was closer than I wanted to be, and one was food related, the Lion incident was not food related, except for the fact he/she thought I was food. I was covered in Elk **** scent, bowhunting! That was over a 25 year career in the Colorado bush, and quite often every year!

The .45 ACP would work well for the Mtn. Lion, but I am dubious for the Bear. But as an African Pro hunter told me in the long grass when I asked him what gun is best for lion, he said, "Whatever gun you have in your hands!"

[dgludwig]

Though I own and like a Ruger Redhawk revolver, chambered in .44 Magnum, the handgun I take with me on trips to the Boundry Waters is the only Taurus I own: a Model 415, 5-shot, s/s revolver with a 2 1/2" long, ported barrel, chambered in .41 Magnum. The same revolver was also made with an alloy frame but, as much as the lighter weight appealed to me in terms of posing less of a burden on long portages, the steel's heavier weight makes the revolver more controllable with repeat shots.

[sw282]

After surviving 3 wars l can say men are definitely predators. After 20+years of hunting black bears in Potter County, PA area l can say black bears are PREDATORS TOO!! Bear season l pack a Jarrett built Win 270. A 44 Smith. Plus a 22 Smith snubby.
0ur guys over those 20yrs in Pa have killed 3. They ranged 150 to 420. A 420lb bear is HUGE. 80% muscle, jaws, & claws. Really small body cavity. l dont think GOD made a better killing machine. ln Roman times they used to pit bears against lions tigers leapords. 1 on 1 the bear ALWAYS won. 2 to 1 he won most of the time. 3 to 1 it was about even.
The year after l helped clean and skin that 420 pounder l took my Win Mod 70-- Caliber?? FOUR FIVE EIGHT

[RampantAndroid]

FWIW, I LOVE my .41 magnum model 58; beautiful gun, powerful and more easily controlled than my model 29 44 magnum. I can fire both one handed, but the 44 I fire on handed for ****s and giggles - I bucks too much for me to be accurate other than "it went downrange..." - with 41, despite it having a 4" barrel to my 44's 6.5" barrel, I can fire one handed and be accurate.

At the same time, stopping power between 41 and 44 seems comparable, and due to the gun being smaller, it's certainly easier to carry.

That said, I bought some bitteroot valley 41 SWC ammo and it's hard cast lead, smokey and a PITA to use and clean up after. Load your own, period...end of story. The ONLY 41 magnum ammo I will buy is the hollow point defense rounds.

[TenRing]

When in doubt between .41 mag, .44 mag and .45 Colt, get the .44 mag in a double action revolver. The others will work but they are not as versatile as the .44.

If you live in an area with grizzly bears, carry a .44. Otherwise if you are in the midwest, southeast or east, a .357 will kill black bears dead. Many black bear hunters prefer .357 magnum but they typically use 6" guns.

If you're carrying the gun for protection instead of hunting, the more powerful .44 mag is a better option. Hunting is much different from last-ditch protection. When hunting, you typically ambush the bear from a stand but when you're hiking or camping, the bear may be getting ready to ambush you and you might only have a few seconds to react and you might only get off one shot.

Go with a 4" or 5" .44 mag to optimize both concealment and sight plane for the woods.

[Kestrel4k]

For me, the cost of practice ammo has become a much more significant factor since I don't have nearly as much time to reload as I used to. So the winner for me is the .454 Casull (& subsequently selling off my S&W .44 Mag). I can buy .45 Colt ammo in bulk for 50 cents ea., and for deer hunting, the .45 Colt LeverEvolution ammo should be about perfect. I haven't had much use for the .454 aspect yet, but I have carried it up in Alaska bear country. [shrug]

(the Leupold is only mounted for 'dress purposes' :o)

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp33/Kestrel4000/IMG_6193-1.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp33/Kestrel4000/close-ups004.jpg

[45long]

Rifleman1776 said it best . If reloading it is a lot more verstile, I had the same problems with the 180gr. My low power load is the 200 grain RNFP.

Two things to consider also. The larger the calibre the less the high pitched crack, this is true especially with the low power loads. (means a lot when your in the woods w/o ear plugs)

The other thing is the availiblity of the keith bullet. These are awesome and the wound they make is incredible. I'd heard stories about them but didn't know for sure until I got a mold and started casting my own and using them on deer. wow. They can be loaded up high enough to kill anything in North America.

[Boberama]

44 Magnum because it's easier and cheaper to find loaded ammo and guns and it shoots heavier bullets.


Paws up. ('')('')

[45long]

Even a .44 Mag isn't going to stop an adult black unless the round is ideally placed - something you may be able to do while hunting but not while being attacked.

Probably the best peice of info on this whole thread.:)

[dgludwig]

Quote:
Even a .44 Mag isn't going to stop an adult black unless the round is ideally placed - something you may be able to do while hunting but not while being attacked.

Probably the best peice of info on this whole thread.

:confused: I guess I'm not sure what the alternatives are here if you're being attacked by an "adult black bear" and you're armed with "only" a .44 Magnum revolver: reach for a rifle that isn't there; carry a bigger handgun next time or just assume the fetal position and try not to holler "ouch" every time you get bit? A .44 Magnum handgun (or its equivalent) is probably not the perfect self-defense weapon for any brand of bear-no matter how "ideally" the bullet is placed and if a person is looking to shoot one (that is, he is bear hunting), bigger and faster bullets ideally placed, would probably be a good idea.

But if I'm in the woods or on the stream in bear country pursuing fishing, camping and/or hiking endeavors, where the practicalness of said activities preclude being armed with a heavy and/or unwieldy firearm, an easily and quickly accessed .44 Magnum revolver affords me a good chance (certainly a better chance than if I were armed only with my trusty Leatherman multi-tool) of surviving an (albeit unlikely) unprovoked bear attack.

[Alaska444]

A well placed hard cast .44 magnum bullet will dispatch the unlikely black bear who wishes to place you on the lunch menu for whatever reason. No one would state it is as good as a .375 H&H magnum, but that is not the issue. How many folks take a large caliber rifle on an ordinary walk vs. having a good measure of protection, perhaps not ideal, but nevertheless, a substantial side arm capable of a one stop shot with proper shot placement.

Strapping a .44 magnum on and heading out the door is simply a practical consideration for a very unlikely event. Kind of like the issue, should I have $100,000 for car insurance coverage or $1,000,000? That is a totally different question than should I go without insurance or have $100,000? Since the majority of car accidents are going to be less than $100,000 to settle a claim, it will be enough for all but the most unusual circumstances.

The same analogy applies to this discussion. Having the .44 magnum is a whole lot better than nothing, and most situations will be well within the means of a .44 magnum. If you wish to prepare for the $1,000,000 event, then take the high powered rifle, but just as in car insurance, the premiums will be higher, meaning it will be more difficult to carry that large rifle for the quite rare and unlikely event of a bear attack. It all comes down to optimizing costs vs expected benefits. To carry my .44 magnum in cross carry with a bandolier holster costs me very little as far as additional burden. Carrying a rifle at all times significantly increases the burden and there are many places where you simply could not carry a rifle but you could carry a large bore revolver. Ultimately, you get what you pay for. It all boils down to personal choice. Now, if I am on the Russian river in Alaska, give me my Marlin in .444 as well as a cross draw .44 magnum as my BUG. In that situation, the risk dictates a larger burden.

[SadistAssassin]

Hey I'm going down to the Russian River next month. Defintely taking my 629!!!!!

[45long]

I want to know who is the brave soul that took the picture of the sow and her cubs. Probably the scariest situation you can come up with in the woods!!!

[45long]

I guess I'm not sure what the alternatives are here if you're being attacked by an "adult black bear" and you're armed with "only" a .44 Magnum revolver: reach for a rifle that isn't there; carry a bigger handgun next time or just assume the fetal position and try not to holler "ouch" every time you get bit? A .44 Magnum handgun (or its equivalent) is probably not the perfect self-defense weapon for any brand of bear-no matter how "ideally" the bullet is placed and if a person is looking to shoot one (that is, he is bear hunting), bigger and faster bullets ideally placed, would probably be a good idea.


Actually , believe it or not Bear Repellant is the best thing to stop a bear ,at least that's what I always heard from the experts. Problem is, If you are in a tent in the middle of the night it's not an encounter, You are simply on the menu and those huge containers of bear spray would suck in an enclosed tent. Probably best to stick the 44mag into the bear's nose at this point:D
Yes a 44 mag is better than nothing but not as good as a 12 guage slug. I agree that lying on the ground playing dead while the bear does his death swashes pushing your chest in ,is not a good option at all. Me I'll stick with my lightweight riot pump with 1oz slug producing 2700 foot pounds of energy and a quick swing up sling and practice bringing it up quickly. but a 44 mag in the tent is a nice option. Just my feelings.

[TylerD45ACP]

Some nice hard cast rounds for your 44mag which is my vote could kill a grizzly bear. I mean the pistol is last ditch fire two at its head if charging. If it doesn't go down wait until its close and fire into more vunerable spots using a tree as cover. A 41 mag would probably work a bit but the 44 is a better idea I think.

[Alaska444]

Many bear experts recommend both spray and firearms for double protection when entering bear country. A recent encounter I read about involved three separate charges from one bear requiring three shots of pepper spray. One did not do the job. Most canisters of pepper spray are going to be empty after three shots, what would have happened with a fourth charge in that encounter?

http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/article.php?art_id=7414

[cochise]

Very interesting review! Lets see if I got it right,...........................


1) bear spray
2) Large calibar rifle or shotgun
3) Practise
4) practise
5) practise some more
6) handgun ? not such a good idea, but .41, .44, or larger if you,................
that's right, practise :D