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View Full Version : CRT15 Carbon Removal tool worth it?


thekevster
December 30, 2010, 12:54 PM
Are carbon removal tools for AR15s
actually worth the investment or should I just stick with old fashion labor?

http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/25598/catid/16/CRT_15_Carbon_Removal_Tool

demigod
December 30, 2010, 12:57 PM
I've never heard of any of these gizmos being that great. I soak my carrier for at least a full 24 hours with CLP. Helps a little. If you can get away with a few days of soaking, it helps a lot.

Mobuck
December 30, 2010, 10:35 PM
My SIL made two tours to Iraq and claims the carbon scrapers are invaluable. Now understand, those guns might rattle off several hundred rounds in 5 minutes or less and have to be cleaned and ready to go before the guys get to eat or sleep. I intend to order a scraper that cleans the inside of the bolt carrier the next time I order from Brownells since my S&W upper in 5.45x39 has accumulated a lot of crud in there. It gets more rattle bang use than the others in 223 and less care therefore has got more built up gunk.

Bartholomew Roberts
December 30, 2010, 10:52 PM
Personally, I don't bother trying to remove the carbon too much. I find with generous lube it tends to be self-limiting.

demigod
December 31, 2010, 09:54 AM
Personally, I don't bother trying to remove the carbon too much. I find with generous lube it tends to be self-limiting.

I agree. The AR will run for thousands and thousands of rounds with no cleaning if the lube is right. But I can't sleep at night with carbon in my gun. :D

Wrath of Firepower
December 31, 2010, 12:46 PM
What kind of lube or brand do you use ?

demigod
December 31, 2010, 02:54 PM
That's a whole different, and never ending debate. ;)

I just use Mobil 1 for the bolt group with some high temp grease on the cam pin. But to soak the bolt group after a shoot, CLP works good.

thekevster
December 31, 2010, 04:58 PM
Actually just CLP will lubricate your rifle hence its name
cleaner lubricant preservative.
But you will need to replace it more often and your going to need grease on some parts.
Also I have heard Eezox works good for lubricant.

Mobuck
December 31, 2010, 11:19 PM
I'll stick with what the miltary uses-CLP. While not the best solvent, it is a decent lubricant and crud softener.

thekevster
January 1, 2011, 02:21 AM
I'll stick with what the miltary uses-CLP. While not the best solvent, it is a decent lubricant and crud softener.

CLP will always do the job.

ndking1126
January 1, 2011, 06:40 PM
Holy crap, never seen such a thing.. and for that cost?! Go to Wally-world and get the $5 teeth scraping tools your dentist uses. They are perfect because of the different angles and tips that come on it.

CortJestir
January 1, 2011, 07:37 PM
I would never consider buying one of these myself. But I did receive one as a birthday gift. It does indeed work as advertised and makes cleaning your bolt much easier and a faster process.

But as others have mentioned, it's not worth the cost when some CLP, a good tool, and some elbow grease will work just as well (if not as quickly).

CPTMurdoc30
January 1, 2011, 11:47 PM
http://www.botachtactical.com/m4ct.html

$10 and works just as good or better.

Volucris
January 1, 2011, 11:51 PM
The KZ tool is fine. I just keep my bolt and gas area lubed decently for shooting and I never get a problem. I've only tried a carbon removed once and it was pointless in my opinion even after 500 rnds without cleaning it.

Usertag
January 2, 2011, 12:02 AM
I mean it will cut down some of the time it takes to clean it. But using hard labor without the tool is a more thorough clean. Anyways carbon doesn't need to constantly be clean. So the tool might not be worth it. but also carbon needs to be cleaned out of guns that are Direct Impingement, alot more than usual. So i guess the tool is worth the $50. Overall Answer (Yes).

tirod
January 2, 2011, 09:10 AM
Some ASSUME carbon needs to be cleaned more frequently. With lube, it stays liquid and moves out the two holes in the side of the carrier. Those are gas cylinder ports.

Scraping the bolt tail may keep the perfectionist happy, it does zero for functioning. The bolt tail doesn't touch anything, nothing rides on it, it's just the back of the bolt in the gas chamber. It is, in effect, the piston face.

If you tear down the gas cylinder on a piston gun every time you shoot it, go ahead. Many don't, tho. HK P7 instructions mention cleaning it every 500 rounds, because the gas cylinder is a delay, not propulsion, and tends to build up more.

One carbine instruction has a gun that's gone over 50,000 rounds with lube ONLY, replacing springs and the bolt only when they fail. The gun is simply wiped down and relubed, no scrapiing or even patched. A frequent use gun on a range can do this, a battlefield gun needs a daily once over to ensure detritus and dirt are removed - but scraping the bolt tail is really overzealous.

Military standards for cleaning are biased to use up the soldiers free time and prevent the armorer from doing the work themself. Been there, don't take the "clean" routine too far out of hand. The M16 was a major improvement in that regard because the receiver and stock needed much less maintenance - they weren't rusty old iron or wood. It's just that some folks over sold it and then all the tight chamber/bad ammo/no chrome bore problems made the situation critical.

Bolt tail scrapers are likely the most useless marketed piece of gear I've seen, right next to ... oh well, that goes off topic real fast.

thekevster
January 2, 2011, 12:41 PM
Yea I dont think its worth 50$
Maybe 10$ but still I dont think I am going to get one anymore it just seems unnecessary.

USMCGrunt
January 2, 2011, 05:30 PM
Best method I found that is cheap and readily available is a stripper slip your ammunition comes on. Take a 3X3" 9mm patch an soak it with CLP. Put it over the hole on the carrier your bolt goes into and push it down the the end of the stripper clip. Now press down and rotate it around to scrape a lot of the carbon out and repeat as necessary to get it all out. Sure, you might twist the stripper clip but who cares, just get another one and keep going. Best method I found and I don't have to spend any extra money on some tool gizmo.

ndking1126
January 2, 2011, 09:05 PM
CLP will always do the job.

I was cool with CLP until I had to breath in fumes of burning CLP.. those machine guns get HOT!!

JackieNeil
January 7, 2011, 12:57 AM
I was in an auto supply store today and saw a bottle of Lucas gun oil. Has anyone used this gun oil. Lucas oil additive is great.

tirod
January 7, 2011, 10:20 AM
I work in an auto parts store, Lucas is just selling the same old stuff with their premium label and a lot of word of mouth. The fact they are into selling gun oil - at a parts store - shows their focus is on marketing. Plenty of shooters use Mobil 1 on their AR's and swear by it. Others market water based lubes at high prices, they work, too.

To paraphrase another AR shooter, you could use an intimate feminine antibiotic and get good results. And they did try it to find out.

Keep the upper cam pin channel wet, and it will keep working. Use what you have, there is not much advantage since it's scraped off and dries up constantly. Synthetics and high priced alternatives work great on high round count guns where others pay for them, but like engine oils, the return on cost is based on diminishing returns. The more you pay, the more it doesn't get much better.

When you price it at the dollars per quart, you see it gets like beef jerky at the checkout line, $35 a pound. Good stuff, eh?