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deadduck357
December 30, 2010, 05:20 AM
Ruger has released their new Gunsite Scout Rifle. The rifle was designed in conjunction with Gunsite and based off Jeff Cooper's concept of what a scout rifle should entail.

Colonel Cooper's idea calls for a rifle of light weight, quick-handling, and chambering in a cartridge suitable for both fighting and hunting. This new offering - the latest evolution of the M77 - is highly adaptable to almost any conceivable role, featuring a 1913 Picatinny rail positioned adequately for either a forward-placed scout scope or any number of holographic or red-dot optics. Further, Ruger saw fit to make standard fixed iron sights such as those found on the Mini-14 and Mini-30. Removal of the rear sight will allow for use of a traditional hunting scope through Ruger's proprietary integral mounts. Notable also is the inclusion of the AC-556 styled flash suppressor (with muzzle threaded to 5/8x24 tpi) detachable in the event one wishes to affix a sound suppressor.

Taking into account the varying builds of the individual, the rifle's length of pull is adjustable by means of three spacers. The stock butt pad is soft and highly recoil absorbent. With a 16.5-in. barrel and chambered for .308 Win. my initial impression was that the rifle would give a brisk kick; that wasn't the case. To my surprise, recoil was negligible and led me to believe that the butt pad is highly shock dampening. The stock is black laminate and has a substantial feel not found in rifles fitted with polymer offerings.

The rifle feeds from either a 5-round or 10-round single stack detachable box magazine, which comes from the Accuracy International and Badger designs. Ruger opted for the single stack over the double with an aim of improving reliability. Releasing the magazine is accomplished through a lever similar to that of the Mini-14/30.

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/431/45222429.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1201/59581970.jpg


I had the privilege of being invited to a gunwriters' review by Ruger for the unveiling at Gunsite. Needless to say I jumped at the chance. We spent three days at Gunsite - one for the introduction and initial range session, the second spent on our choice of shooting courses; the Scrambler was a blast. Temperatures were in the upper 50s during the day and the nights were in the upper 20s and lower 30s.
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/5519/60642061.jpg


At the introduction we also received a Carhartt jacket embroidered with the Ruger label and a Ruger/Gunsite Scout Rifle shirt.
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The target is from Ruger's 50-yard testing of the rifle. After 4,170 rounds of Winchester Power Point 180-gr, an accuracy test was performed with 30 rounds and a Leupold scout scope. The result is this following group.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7859/26223592.jpg

deadduck357
December 30, 2010, 05:22 AM
The rifle I was given for review. Mine was fitted with a Burris 2.75 Scout Scope and a Ching Safari Sling. Other participants used rifles in varying configurations, including iron sites, conventional scope setups, and holographic red dots. In excess of twenty rifles were provided by Ruger. Overall length is 38.00 in - 39.50 in. depending on spacers used. Weight is 7 lbs.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7007/41852809.jpg

The distinctive AC-556 type flash suppressor. The rifling is 6 grooves in 1/10-in. RH twist.
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Mag well and trigger group are a single unit. Visible here is the lever magazine release.
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Gunsite's logo is prominently displayed on the bottom of the pistol grip.
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deadduck357
December 30, 2010, 05:24 AM
10-rd metal magazine.
http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/4219/79480021.jpg

5-rd metal magazine.
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The single column magazine.
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Loaded.
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3443/12056669.jpg

deadduck357
December 30, 2010, 05:25 AM
The Gunsite instructors and range officers. Left to right: Il Ling New, Ed Head, Chris Weare, LaMonte Kintsel. All were very helpful. On the first day they all came across as hardasses, but by the third day they were easy to get along with.
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One of two racks of rifles.
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Il Ling New demonstrating the high ready position and handling of the rifle.
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Il Ling instructing on the kneeling position.
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And the sitting position.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8610/26928054.jpg
She knows her rifles.

deadduck357
December 30, 2010, 05:26 AM
First group on the firing line, shooter's choice kneeling or sitting.
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Jeff Quinn putting the Scout rifle through its paces, offhand.
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Mark Gurney from Ruger (at right) and me at left. High ready.
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deadduck357
December 30, 2010, 05:28 AM
Another gunwriter running the Scrambler.
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Another stage.
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The Scout rifle, fitted with the 10-rd magazine.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9811/89149355.jpg

And the 5-rd.
http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/6982/15717445.jpg

Left to right: Michael Bane, myself, and Jeff Quinn.
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1474/84486133.jpg

Three days at Gunsite. Lots of new stuff. Lots of good memorable times. I met a lot of good gun people, shot some new firearms, burned a lot of free ammo - what could be better?

Thanks to Ruger and Gunsite for the opportunity to participate and the experience. It was a blast.

shanzlik
December 30, 2010, 10:32 AM
Nice, thanks for the report.

deadduck357
December 30, 2010, 06:19 PM
My pleasure.

shanzlik
December 30, 2010, 07:46 PM
Checked out your review again, it was interesting to see and hear a bit more about what goes on at one of those rollouts. Now I want one. The Mini 14 never quite grabbed me enough to buy one, partly because I don't need another .223, but I really like this rifle and the .308.

p99guy
December 30, 2010, 11:22 PM
The flash hider unscrews and the Scout Rifle will accept any 5/8x24 .30 caliber muzzle device, including a sound suppressor.....and with subsonic .308 win ammo, it would sound like an airsoft rifle.

zombieslayer
December 31, 2010, 09:07 AM
Nice write-up. I wanted one of these before. Now I have to have one.

ursavus.elemensis
December 31, 2010, 09:20 AM
Nice write up. Looks like an interesting rifle.

I have that same scope that you used, the Burris 2.75 Scout Scope, mounted on my 7.7 mm Japanese Arisaka that my grandfather brought back from WW2 in the Pacific. The mount is one that fits into the space for the stock rear site, and can be removed without damaging or altering the rifle in any way so that the original rear site can be put back on. That scope is a really nice one and has terrific optics, and my eye finds it so naturally when shouldering the rifle to aim. If anyone is considering this new Ruger or any type of scout scope set up, I recommend that Burris 2.75 Scout Scope.

langloisandy
December 31, 2010, 09:21 AM
Thanks for posting this!

I need one!

Andy

TX Hunter
December 31, 2010, 12:00 PM
Great write up, I enjoyed it.
I love the .308 Frontier, and thats what I hunt with, but have often wished for Iron Sights, and an adjustable LOP.
I had to adjust mine myself with spacers and a Packmyer.
Im glad Ruger listened to those of us that use their products.
They came through like a champ with this model.
This is the ultimate utility carbine, and I would recomend it to anyone.

Single Six
December 31, 2010, 02:09 PM
Duck: Thanks a lot...Being the Ruger devotee that I am, I was interested as soon as I saw the photos of the rifle. Now, after that stellar report, I GOTTA GET ONE!! Any idea if they'll be offering other calibers later on, or in stainless finish ?

theinvisibleheart
December 31, 2010, 03:04 PM
did not know about this.

But wished it used common military surplus mags like M-14, FNFAL, G3, etc. instead.

Thank you.
PS
also, would have being nice if they had synthetic stock instead(lighter but at expense of increased recoil).

theinvisibleheart
December 31, 2010, 03:05 PM
(s)he would be a lot more stabler if she/he rested her elbows on knees and/or ground. Also, if the bent legs were flat, flush with ground.

natman
December 31, 2010, 03:38 PM
Not to mention using the sling. :rolleyes:

deadduck357
December 31, 2010, 06:26 PM
Thanks fellas.

Single Six, not sure about a SS version, but they are working on a left hand model. There was also mention of future calibers, I think I remember hearing the possibility of a 243, 7mm-08, 338 Fed., and maybe a short magnum.

deadduck357
December 31, 2010, 06:34 PM
theinvisibleheart, the single stack is simple and reliable. The laminated stock is solid vs the hollow plastic, they wanted it to have a solid feel and yes the benefit is less felt recoil and you can also use the stock as a weapon. The solid laminate will hurt much more than hollow plastic.

As for the pics Il Ling is superb with a rifle, I just didn't get the pics on time, she was instructing and many were trying to get up front to get pics, took 'em when I could.

deadduck357
December 31, 2010, 06:40 PM
natman, she instructed us with the use of the Ching Sling in offhand, kneeling, sitting and prone and then drilled us.

30-30remchester
December 31, 2010, 07:01 PM
While this might be a superb firearm, am I the only one that thinks this is the b##t ugliest gun to hit the market. Its about as appealing to me as an EDSEL. Wow it looks like Ruger took every spare part they couldnt sell to a blind Gypsie and welded them to a reciever. :D Anyway for you EDSEL lovers she looks like a keeper.

Come and take it.
December 31, 2010, 07:16 PM
the magazine size would have to be problematic for a rifle like that. Even the british enfield had a better magazine and it is a century older. Imagine doing any kind of decent bag shooting. Otherwise a nice gun.

armoredman
December 31, 2010, 07:33 PM
On the other hand, being a CZ rifle afficianado, with their magazines that ride below the stock, I can say this - Ruger finally made a rifle that interest me again.
Now what accuracy is this thing capable at longer range, 200-300 yards? That 50 yard target I could do with my CZ 527M, albeit maybe not with so many rounds through it, :D, but seriously, how well does it really shoot?

Single Six
December 31, 2010, 07:35 PM
Duck: One last question; if you already covered this, I apologize for missing it: When will the rifles be hitting the dealers' shelves ?

TexAg
December 31, 2010, 07:45 PM
I can't help but think the single stack mag = reliability argument is pure fallacy. How many double stack mags have shown time and again they are a reliable design? M1A, FAL, FNAR, ARs, etc. In my opinion it's just rediculous how far that 10 round mag sticks out.

deadduck357
January 1, 2011, 12:08 AM
30-30remchester, the rifle was designed by Gunsite.

deadduck357
January 1, 2011, 12:10 AM
single six, Ruger tries to have stock built up before they unveil a product, so it should be getting to the distributors like soon.

Single Six
January 1, 2011, 12:16 AM
Duck: I'll be looking for it. Thanks again for a great review, and happy new year.

deadduck357
January 1, 2011, 12:21 AM
Happy new year to you also

Rob96
January 1, 2011, 06:50 AM
I say good on Ruger. A company can't set a rifle up that everyone will like. If you like Rugers, buy and set it up as you wish. I do agree it should have been done with a common magazine, but at least they are trying.

RangerHAAF
January 1, 2011, 03:14 PM
It's an interesting rifle but I'm not sold on it. Ruger has tried this before with the Frontier and they stopped producing it for some unknown reason and it was a great gun. I own one and I love going hunting with it. The only thing that's unusual that I don't encounter with my other M-77s is the awesome muzzle blast that it produces but in every other way, especially it's accuracy, the gun is of the same high quality as the standard M-77.

Rifleman1776
January 1, 2011, 03:37 PM
Pretty ugly rifle. Looks too military/police. Sure could serve as a sporter but is not in the image of an American sporter. For me, it would be a lot more attractive with a longer barrel, 20 or 24 inches would still be a handy carry rifle and give better performance. Plus it would put the blast further away from your ears.
Longer barrel and more caliber choices, I might be interested, ughs or not.

RMcL
January 1, 2011, 08:53 PM
Will need a flush mount magazine to meet one of Cooper's criteria - carry in the hand as handy as a M94 Winchester.

peeshooter
January 1, 2011, 11:31 PM
I could save everybody a bunch of time and money.... put the Gunsite logo on a mini 14/30 platform...done. I dont get the use of the rifle? I question the relavence of a bolt action gun of this type. It sounds like the old saying, "it does everything OK, but nothing outstanding", and we all know how history has layed that title on many great designs.

tulsamal
January 2, 2011, 01:00 AM
Make it in .350 Remington Magnum or even .358 Winchester and I'll probably have to have one.

Gregg

BikerRN
January 2, 2011, 04:23 AM
I've encorporated some of the Scout Rifle concepts in my 6920, and really want to love this rifle.

With that being said I think the Scout Rifle, as the good Col Cooper envisioned it, has had the sun set on it's practicality and general usefulness. Today we can get semiauto loading hunting rifles in a carbine configuration that are magazine fed. I'll have to check, but I think that some of them may even meet Col Cooper's weight requirements.

Does that mean that the Scout Rifle, as configured by Col Cooper, can't be used today? Of course not. Just as revolvers are still in use today, the Scout Rifle with a bolt action can fill an important role. I just think there are better platforms that, while not remaining true to the Col's original, can embrace many of his well thought out and practical concepts.

Biker

armoredman
January 2, 2011, 07:22 AM
I don't care if it comes covered in gold and washes my dishes - how well does it shoot?

Ticonderoga
January 2, 2011, 01:48 PM
Am I the only one that is scratching their head and wondering "why?"

Why on earth would I want to be in a practical shooting range with a bolt action rifle when an M1 would do the same job?

Cooper had an "edgy" column; that doesn't make him an expert on all things rifle. Why on earth would someone buy one of these when they could have an M1A1 that does it all and better?

It's like trading in your Rem 700 for a black-powder rifle because some arm-chair general said "it's cool" to shoot black powder.

I just don't get the whole "scout rifle" - it sounds like a gimmick to me...

bottom rung
January 2, 2011, 01:59 PM
I like it.

I like short rifles.

I like light rifles.

I think Ruger will keep this around for a couple years then kill it.

Real world price should be about $850-$900, I would guess.

I hope some poor fool buys one and decides that it is so totally not an M1A that he trades it in at my local gun store so I can pick it up for $650.

Off the beaten path designs like this have always caused me to like Ruger even more.

Thanks deadduck357.

kristop64089
January 2, 2011, 02:09 PM
I'd prefer it to accept M1A or FAL mags, and have a polymer stock(for weight). Since stocks can be changed though, my only beef is the mags. I already have a picky M-14

Ticonderoga
January 2, 2011, 02:23 PM
I noticed on Ruger's description of said Scout rifle that the scope can be moved rearward and mounted on Rugers proprietary scope mounts.

Hmmm.... and you can't buy a stainless .375 H&H from Ruger, you have to buy their proprietary .375 Ruger round...

I'm noticing a trend here - a trend that is awfully un-American - a trend that limits my freedom of choice.

Thank you no, I'll say no to Ruger and their proprietary products... just like I won't buy an Ipod because I won't be "locked" into iTunes or any other proprietary Apple product.

They only market this stuff because someone buys it... :barf:

tulsamal
January 2, 2011, 02:45 PM
I noticed on Ruger's description of said Scout rifle that the scope can be moved rearward and mounted on Rugers proprietary scope mounts.

If you read the review on gunblast.com, there is already a rail being made by a third company that lets you use standard bases.

Gregg

tulsamal
January 2, 2011, 02:58 PM
just like I won't buy an Ipod because I won't be "locked" into iTunes or any other proprietary Apple product.

Oh my, now you really stepped in it. You don't think Microsoft Windows is "proprietary?" Or MS Office? Or MS Internet Explorer?!!

Years ago, Apple got annoyed that MS kept introducing the "new" Internet Explorer for the Mac long after the same features had been in use on the Windows version. So Apple introduced their own browser, Safari. Bill Gates was so angry about it that he totally cancelled any further development of Internet Explorer for the Mac. Hasn't been around in a long, long time.

MS is constantly "introducing" new HTML coding for IE. Only problem is they use coding that hasn't been accepting as "standard" at that point in time. So that means that all the fancy new "features" that MS touts for that version of IE can only be used by IE. A developer has a web site that is totally standard but it looks weird in IE. So he develops just for IE but then it looks REALLY weird in Safari or Firefox. Because IE is proprietary as hell!

Say a company is out there right now running Windows boxes and Office. They decide they are tired of all the viruses so they look into switching to Macs. MS makes a version of Office for the Mac and they actually keep it up to date. But then the company discovers that MS purposefully never put the Access database program into the Mac version of Office. Since the company has a whole bunch of Access database files, they can't switch. Why.... because MS has made damn sure that Access stays.... say it with me.... proprietary as hell!

Even the iPod is a crappy example because MS has created Windows only music file formats and encouraged other developers and companies to use them. You can't use them at all on a Mac since they don't release the software for them. With an iPod you can use iTunes on a Mac or on a Windows box. But not with closed MS crap-ola! And maybe you don't understand how an iPod works. I could use my iPods all day long and never touch iTunes or the Apple store if I don't want to do so. They mount as a hard drive on the desktop, you can copy MP3's to them anytime. So rip all of your old CD's to MP3 and move them to your iPod. Nothing "proprietary" about that!

Yeah, you guessed it, I'm typing this on a Mac. A G5. An eight year old computer with two internal hard drives, six external hard drives, two USB hubs, multiple Firewire devices, two Samsung flat panel monitors being driven off one ATI video card. Eight individual RAM sticks totaling 3.5 gig. In eight years, it's never had a virus even though I don't have any anti-virus software loaded. I would like to have a new Mac but the old one just keeps on going and going and going!

Gregg

bedlamite
January 2, 2011, 03:21 PM
They should have used commonly available double stack mags. I'd like to see other calibers available along with a short action too, like .223 and 6.8.

JiminTexas
January 2, 2011, 03:25 PM
Everyone gets excited about a new release from any of the major manufacturers. I have a few questions about this one. What role does this rifle fill in the general firearms world?
I can see that it is short and probably quick handling. Is it for hunting in close quarters? Is it for taking quick shots at close range? Then why is it a bolt action? Bolt action rifles aren't particularly quick on follow up shots and that defeats the purpose of the short quick rifle. Why the ten round magazine in a bolt action rifle? What is the flash supressor for? Are you afraid that the deer will see your position and return fire? I like the rail. Red dot sights are great for bringing your gun to bear quickly. If it were an autoloader it would be really great.
What is this gun really? It is a platform that every wannabe soldier can carry around and sneak through the bushes and pretend that he is some kind of scout/sniper/comando camoflaged, super stealth, combat soldier. Other than that this is a perfect solution to a non existant need.

THORN74
January 2, 2011, 03:46 PM
Im with u JT.... to use a Nutnfancy term ..... whats the POU (philosiphy of use) for this rifle?? the only thing i can imagine is scout roll, maybe safari (but the calibur choice is too small for safari).

i supose it could be SHTF or wildrness emergency (plane crash, river boat, off roading in the boonies) something u might need to hike ur way back to civilization

Usertag
January 2, 2011, 03:51 PM
I am Glad They Made a New Bolt Action Rifle. But Also That it is feed By a Clip. What is also A great Idea of Ruger is Bringing Back The .308, In my Opinion one of the greatest Sniping Rounds. And i love the shortned Stock so it is Acceptable to all shooters. And it has a great Colonial/Modern Design. Thank You Ruger

bottom rung
January 2, 2011, 03:57 PM
JiminTX, try doing some searching on the scout rifle concept. It is not so much the attempt of a manufacturer to fulfill a need, but rather their attempt to meet the requirements of an ideal rifle platform as set forth by a well respected shooter and gun writer. I firmly believe if we attempted to actually figure what the point of every firearms design is, the civillian firearms industry would have ended years ago. To be perfectly honest, most people will never need a gun. It is just way to hard to tell if your one of those guys.

Ticonderoga
January 2, 2011, 04:15 PM
Gregg, thanks for the education, a bit more than I knew about MS & Apple. I have a few colleagues at work who won't touch anything IBM and swear by their apples. But, when we go to exchange songs, only the MS folks can, those with iTunes are locked out. I suppose the .375 Ruger is much of the same, "You sell .375 Ruger here?" says a hunter in Zimbabwe to the responding chuckle of everyone in the lodge...

I can buy an Acer for $300 and it does everything my buddie's $3k mac can do. I can't even get ammo for a .375 Ruger - what's the point?

So they make "aftermarket" scope bases for the Ruger... Jim in Texas summed it up best, its a gun that fits a niche that doesn't exist...

Bottom rung, you bring up a good point; most will never fire their gun(s) in anger.

As I leaf through all of the gun magazines that my hunting buddy from Missouri has mailed out to central Asia, I get a chuckle as I see all of these Kimber and Ed Brown "special forces" 1911's and concealed carry laser guns. You're right, most will never fire a gun in anger. Most guns are used for plinking and hunting.

But, for a rifle, aside from hunting and plinking, you are most likely to use your rifle for home defense or in case of civil disorder (hurricaine, earthquake, etc). For either situation, the "scout" rifle is useless. You gonna stop an angry gang of 12 looters? Better have a semi-auto. An AR, FN/FAL, HK or M1 will do the trick. Scout rifle? Yeah right. And as for home defense, that "forward" mounted scope - how will that help you looking down a hallway at 3am in pitch black conditions?

This scout rifle reminds me of the electrically fired muzzle-loader that some idiot company recently marketed. I read a review and at the end, the author asked the president of the company of this monstrosity, "why should anyone buy it?" to which he responded, "1. No one else on the block has one, and 2., you'll be the only one at the range with one." What logic. Sign me up!

zombieslayer
January 2, 2011, 04:16 PM
I applaud Ruger for building something a bit outside the norm. I like vanilla, but I'm sure glad its not the ONLY flavor available.

jimbob86
January 2, 2011, 04:23 PM
whats the POU (philosiphy of use)?

Do a bit of reading on the Scout Rifle concept....... I am sure nutnfancy is aware of the Scout concept ........ but mehbee he's in the business of getting hits on the internet, and therefore is going to stir up controversy.....

google "Scout Rifle" ...... or better yet, read the chapter dealing with the idea in Cooper's book "To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth". Won't hurt you a bit. I promise.

deadduck357
January 2, 2011, 09:19 PM
Jimntx,
Try to look at it like a general purpose rifle, may not be the best at anything BUT it can do everything.

The flash suppressor is removable so you can add a sound suppressor. So that deer cannot hear you either to return fire.

All firearms need maintenance, but gas operated need more maintenance are more complicated(internally), bolts are simple and just need less.

If you could only grab one, this one is it.

jdmcconnell
January 5, 2011, 10:23 PM
i was wondering if the magazine has 2 detents in it or just one?

jimbob86
January 5, 2011, 10:26 PM
The flash suppressor is removable so you can add a sound suppressor. So that deer cannot hear you either to return fire.



Ha! The bullet is supersonic, so it will hit the deer befor he hears the gun! It's a .308, too, so he won't be doing much of enything except dropping dead. :D

Willis83
January 5, 2011, 11:12 PM
Does anyone know if the rifle can be loaded with the magazine in place?

I'm dissapointed that the rifle uses a single stack magazine. Yeah I'm sure it works knowing Ruger but the 10 rd mag looks to hang out a long ways making it less handy. I wish Ruger would have made it with a double stack magazine so a 10 rounder wouldn't hang so low and would still offer decent firepower. Ideally it would be a M1A 10 rd mag.

Other things I would like to see: stripper clip guide, placing rear sight behind scope mount so a receiver mounted scope can be mounted w/o taking off rear sight, and offer if in a few different calibers e.g. .243 Win.

It's a good concept and I'm glad to see Ruger offering a variety of products.

deadduck357
January 6, 2011, 01:56 AM
Willis, it is a single feed mag, no it can not be topped-off.

Dobe
January 6, 2011, 04:14 AM
I don't see a problem. There is a magazine, which can be topped off.

BlueTrain
January 6, 2011, 07:18 AM
Part of the irony here, as I see it, is that while it is supposed to be a general purpose rifle, in order for it to be that, it is a compromise. But then what isn't. Frankly, it seems a lot more practical from a cost standpoint than the Steyr Scout rifle/carbine. Cost is important to some people.

Now about those magazines. In theory, the rifle can be a little thinner through the action than one with a double column magazine, either with or without a detachable magazine. But not having examined one, I don't know if it made a difference in this case and I don't remember how the Steyr worked out in that respect. None are likely to be as thin as a lever action, however.

Another point I'd like to bring up is how the rifle is supposed to be suitable for both combat and for hunting, although the expression "combat" is probably not used anywhere in the literature, even by Cooper. Why does every rifle and cartridge (even handgun cartridge) get judged on its worthiness as a hunting cartridge? I think that the standard work about cartridges makes a comment about most cartridges about its value for hunting. For some purposes, it misses the point entirely. But this isn't to say the .308 is not a good combat cartridge; that's how it started, along with every other cartridge the US government ever used. In any case, if you're going to have a bolt action, I suppose a .308 is just as good as anything else, though not necessarily better, if you are out scouting.

In my mind, I keep comparing this new rifle on the block to a No 5 Jungle Carbine. While it compares favorably, I'd still take the No 5 in spite of its shortcomings. It'd be nice to have a Jungle Carbine with an up to date buttpad and....well, that's about it. Everything else is perfect. Nothing wrong with the cartridge either. For a setup like that, if you'd rather have a low powered alternative cartridge, then just get American made hunting ammunition.

Even so, other rifles might be a tad better and after all, Jungle Carbines in decent shape are scarce but probably less expensive than a Steyr, which may remain the benchmark.

I think I'd just as soon have a plain black stock, too. Whoever wants one that can afford one will buy one until they stop selling, just like most of their firearms. Then they'll introduce something else. That's one of the good things about Ruger compared with other companies. They try not to get stuck in a rut.

BlueTrain
January 6, 2011, 07:58 AM
You know the Steyr Scout is still available, by the way. And ten round magazines are also available, though I've never seen a photo of one in place (haven't searched, either). And they come in a few other calibers, including a proprietary cartridge. They use Jeff Cooper's name liberally, so I suppose it remains the scout rifle against which others will be compared.

I keep mentioning the old Jungle Carbine. I discovered that it actually weighs less than the Steyr Scout, but only a little. A funny thing here is that all of these new all purpose or general purpose (but not universal--that's a different rifle) rifles are essentially carbines. At one time the infantry used rifles, cavalry used carbines. Mounted infantry still used rifles but that only confuses the issue. Then someone decided to make a short rifle and to make it the all purpose rifle, a concept which hasn't changed in a hundred years or at least as long as soldiers went into battle with bolt action rifles. The Soviets even got around to the idea, though later than most others. Over the years most of the differences between all those rifles have been in the details. Yet the Lee-Enfield remains the easiest to manipulate in a hurry. I know that some will say they can work the bolt on their Yugo Mauser just as fast but I've had people say they can get off second shots with their Ruger No. 1 just as fast, too. Either way, I don't buy into the "magazine as an emergency reserve" idea. I'm not so sure about bipods, either. I think clip loading is good, which was another concept that eventually everyone decided was a Good Thing over a hundred years ago, but I doubt it will appear on any new bolt actions. Anyway, some didn't work so good. They did show up on Remington autoloaders, which by the way had a single column magazine, but they didn't work well either. The one I had in .35 Remington was hard enough to load with individual cartridges, which I might also say about the 1895 Winchester in .30-06, which also had a single column magazine.

But we cope.

Art Eatman
January 6, 2011, 02:40 PM
I really, really doubt that "combat" was ever part of the concept. To begin with, the last thing a scout would ever want would be a firefight, as that defeats his entire purpose. Certainly, Cooper never brought that into any of the discussions...

scouter27
January 6, 2011, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Art Eatmen:
I really, really doubt that "combat" was ever part of the concept. To begin with, the last thing a scout would ever want would be a firefight, as that defeats his entire purpose. Certainly, Cooper never brought that into any of the discussions...

He was talking about a rifle, not about tactics. Getting vs. not getting into a firefight is a tactic, and entirely situationally dependent.

Just for the sake of argument, a scout might in fact try to start a highly thought out fight for some yet unforeseen reason.

:p

Rob3
January 6, 2011, 06:46 PM
One of the gun shops here says he will have them in February for $719.95. Not too bad at all considering plain Ruger Hawkeyes are going for about $699 in other gun shops.

Here's the link to Ed's Gun shop:

http://www.edsgunshop.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3908

One other thing I found interesting on his post was that it looks like Winchester is bringing back the regular (non custom) Model 94. I just hope they are not making them in Japan.

deadduck357
January 6, 2011, 07:40 PM
Probably Turkey.

langenc
January 6, 2011, 07:53 PM
Couple questions I didnt see answered on page 1--

How heavy is trigger and How much$$$???

bottom rung
January 6, 2011, 08:31 PM
I think you are going to have to wait on the detailed specs. The gun writers only had an introduction. Nobody has had the chance to tear it apart and such. Ruger's suggested price is $995. Street price should be around $800-$900. No so cheap, Pico.

deadduck357
January 6, 2011, 10:07 PM
Like bottom rung said we didn't have time or equipment for a complete evaluation. I have read on other gun forums that people are getting quotes from their dealers in the high $700s to mid-upper $800 range.

BlueTrain
January 7, 2011, 07:13 AM
Okay, it's not for combat then. But it's very tactical.

scouter27
January 7, 2011, 09:45 AM
That's a matter of perception, and how you use the word tactical. I don't see anything "tactical" about any gun, but that could just be me.


Rob3, thanks for that link. It'll be getting bookmarked for bargaining later :)

Tom Gresham
January 15, 2011, 07:57 AM
Someone posted that it was good to see "behind the curtain" on a new-gun introduction. Well, they sure are fun.

Next week (Friday and Sunday) you can see a half-hour show about a new-gun introduction at Gunsite (not the Ruger Scout Rifle -- that comes two weeks later). It was the Colt event there, and we show what the gun writers do at such an event.

Gun Talk Television runs on Versus. Fridays at 10:00am Eastern and Sundays at 8:00am Eastern.

Two weeks after that, we have the show which is all about the Scout Rifle -- also shot at Gunsite. We just sent that show to the network Thursday of this week. It's pretty hot, if I do say so myself.

The Scout Rifle is a concept I was very cool about. After spending time with it, I like it a lot. That surprised me.

Now, if only it were available in a left-hand bolt!

tulsamal
January 15, 2011, 10:20 AM
Gun Talk Television runs on Versus. Fridays at 10:00am Eastern and Sundays at 8:00am Eastern.

What the heck is "Versus?" I thought all the gun shows were on the Outdoor Network? That's where I get them all on my Dish anyway. Is that network even available on Dish Network? Sounds like some good shows to watch but how do I get them?

Gregg

Dobe
January 15, 2011, 10:59 AM
VS channel. You can request it.

Tom Gresham
January 15, 2011, 04:01 PM
>>What the heck is "Versus?" I thought all the gun shows were on the Outdoor Network? That's where I get them all on my Dish anyway. Is that network even available on Dish Network? Sounds like some good shows to watch but how do I get them?
<<

Versus is a sports channel (think ESPN type) which carries the Tour de France (bicycles, you know).

I also has a bunch of outdoor shows -- hunting and fishing. A couple of years ago, we got them to take our show Guns & Gear. That was the first "gun" show they had run. Now they also run "Three Gun Nation" and our new show, "Gun Talk Television."

Versus is in twice as many households as the Outdoor Channel -- about 78 million.

NooYawkuh
January 30, 2011, 10:57 AM
Gun Talk on the Versus channel devoted the entire show this week to the Ruger Gunsite Scout. Unfortunately, I don't think the show will air again. It's normally aired on Fridays @ 10 AM and Sundays @ 8 AM. I usually DVR it.

After seeing the show, I like the rifle even more. Officially on my wish list.

I can't believe I don't get the Outdoor channel. I have a top-tier cable package from Cablevision here on Long Island, and I'd still have to buy the sports package to get it. Like I really want to watch all NHL hockey games, men's indoor volleyball and the Scottish Caber-Toss Channel.

25fan
January 30, 2011, 08:44 PM
Paid $729.95 for mine.

Lawyer Daggit
February 13, 2011, 10:42 PM
I like the look of the rifle. They have I think gone for the mil spec look at the expense of building a great rifle.

The fault with the frontier was muzzle blast. Why not increase the barrel length to 20 inches and leave off the muzzle device sourced off an 'assault rifle'.

I would have also preferred a staggered stock that would have been shorter and easier to use when shooting prone.

Long mags and muzzle devices just upset bureaucrats who know no different.

I am concerned at the 'sniper rifle' craze turning into assault rifle type probs for bolt gun owners- many of whom live in countries like Australia where we do not have a second amendment.

Dobe
February 14, 2011, 12:29 AM
Ruger is exporting to Australia, a 20" version w/o the flash suppressor.
I read this on another forum from an Aussie. I have no other proof.

44 AMP
February 14, 2011, 02:10 AM
I'm noticing a trend here - a trend that is awfully un-American - a trend that limits my freedom of choice.



I don't see it that way. Just because a maker designs their product to maximize sale of their accessories, I don't see that as un-American. You have complete freedom of choice, buy, or don't buy what they offer.

A company not offering every concievable accessory option on their products hardly limits our freedom of choice, at least as I see it.

And for all those who are bemoaning the fact that it isn't a semi auto, there is a fairly large market where semi autos are not allowed. In this, I think Ruger did a smart thing. The magazine would have been better for us had it been a common double stack type, but the one they chose is better for Ruger.

Before we get too far into griping about what the rifle isn't, remember what it is, a marketable product that will appeal to some people and not others.

Ignition Override
February 14, 2011, 02:23 AM
My first impression from just glancing at the photos, it that it was inspired by the original Enfield #5 Jungle Carbine, or the recent (Australian) AIA "JC" in 7.62x39, imported in small numbers to the US.

Enfields hold ten rounds and many owners have never encountered the fabled 'wandering zero', used by the post WW2 British to justify the transition to a semi-auto rifle. The tiny aperture sights on my pair do pretty well at 100 yards (as well as the Service Grade Garand with my very modest skill).

In order to avoid beating up an original, collectible rifle, wouldn't a nice, handy imitation Enfield #5 also fulfill the role of this new Ruger up to 100 yards or so?
Apparently, rifles need to be new to have serious credibility, or it mostly the capability to attach high-tech gadgets which earns respect?

lefteyedom
February 14, 2011, 03:40 AM
Old Col Cooper was good at marketing. He knew what his readers want to read and he gave it to them. He is still selling stuff from the grave! (so is Elmer Keith, Jack OConner, Gen Hatch, Col. Whelan, Bill Jordan, Skeeter...)

But honestly I have never bought into his idea of forward mounted scope, bolt action, scout rifle. Other than a forward mounted pistol scope what does the Col's Scout rifle have that the Enfield Jungle Carbine from WWII didn't? The Jungle Carbine was a great rifle put that was 70 years ago.

Patrolling a combat zone in 2011 there are much better rifles to carry. Maybe you have hear of the new fad, self loading rifles? I hear it is catching on. All the cool countries are getting them.


My deer rifle is an old Savage 110 in 308, with a 18" barrel and a detachable magazine. It has a Redfield 3X9X40 scope mounted in the standard position. A Harris bi-pod is attached and quick detach swivels mount an old leather sling. What advantage in the real world is does a SCOUT RIFLE have over my old deer rifle?:cool:

Art Eatman
February 14, 2011, 10:08 AM
lefteyedom, I'd have to say it's less "marketing" than it is that their ideas were valid and were proven over time.

The only notable difference of the Scout, compared maybe to my Sako Forester carbine is the scope mounting position. Weight and length are about the same. The other features Cooper suggested are nice, but not truly necessities.

What has been proven is that target acquisition is faster with the forward mounting of the scope. That's not just a "somebody's opinion" thing, it's the results of actual use in the field in competition between shooters. Multiple targets at differing distances, going against the clock.

tulsamal
February 14, 2011, 11:37 AM
The Jungle Carbine was a great rifle put that was 70 years ago.

I've got an original Jungle Carbine. It was given to me by a US Vet back in 1978. Somebody back before that mounted a scope on it but otherwise its stock. It was my first centerfire rifle. I haven't shot it in at least ten years.

Somehow it has two problems that aren't supposed to go together. On the one hand, it's darn heavy. Part of that is the scope of course but it isn't a lightweight rifle to carry around the property all day. But the second issue is that somehow despite the weight, recoil out of that gun beats you up. It's the only rifle I own that has ever given me a scope cut. Granted the uncomfortable recoil was with milsurp .303 British not with my reloads.

So between the weight and the recoil, I quit shooting it quite a long time ago. I would rather shoot one of my Mosins any day. I got dies and brass for it many years ago and started to reload for it. Thought I might shoot a deer with it someday. But then various modern rifles moved into my house and now it leads a lonely life in a closet. I'm willing to bet the new Ruger would get shot a lot more around here.

Gregg

Ticonderoga
February 14, 2011, 12:55 PM
Well, so much as I think that the whole Scout Rifle idea is a bit exaggerated due to who was marketing it, I read everyone's responses here and I thought I'd give a try at the "style" of it. I have an old Mauser that shoots straight and is a great utility gun. It could use a scope and I don't want to carve on it so I purchased a weaver mount that replaces the rear sight and a Simmons 4x pistol scope. When I get home I'll put it together and post some pics on this thread and then I'll take it to the range.

Dunno if I'd spend $750 on a "Scout" rifle but I won't mind putting a scope on the Mauser...

mnhntr
February 14, 2011, 02:03 PM
I like the looks of this rifle, it is a great idea. My only complaint is the highway robbery on the Ruger mags. Why not just use the cheaper readily available AR10 mags? Typical of Ruger ie. the mini 14 and mini 30.

BlueTrain
February 14, 2011, 02:16 PM
To Mr. Tulsamal, I also had an original No. 5 Jungle carbine, bought through the mail over 40 years ago. It weighed less than a Steyr Scout, too, so I don't know where you're getting this thing about it being so heavy. Must be a heavy scope you have. But it does have a kick.

The thing about the wandering zero was not an excuse to go to a semi-automatic (or self-loading, as they used to say) rifle. They had been intending to replace the No. 4 rifle with the No. 5 but stayed with the No. 4 instead for another ten years, and kept manufacturing them during that time, too. But there was an intention to replace bolt actions eventually, to be sure.

Ignition Override
February 14, 2011, 03:38 PM
lefteyedom:

Good point about semi-autos having an advantage, but as the Ruger being discussed is a bolt-action, it seemed more valid to compare an already- proven bolt-action, which might achieve similar objectives.

Sort of like classic DC-9 versus old 737-200s, instead of MD-88s versus 757s with the later VNAV and LNAV navigation, with FMCs etc.
No comparison.

deadduck357
March 15, 2011, 07:05 PM
There are 4 new videos on Ruger's site about the GSR
http://ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/extras.html

Armor
March 24, 2011, 05:41 AM
Gunsumer Reports (http://www.gunsumerreports.com) is working on a review of this rifle now and you can see Part 3 by going to the link below. Lots of detailed photos.

http://www.gunsumerreports.com/review_ruger_m77-gs_p3.php

HiBC
March 24, 2011, 07:22 AM
Different strokes for different folks.I always enjoyed reading Jeff Cooper.and enjoyed his articles on scout rifles.I do think it is a very practical rifle concept.
I have built a couple light,handy,IER scoped rifles.I would not call them true scout rifles,just borrowed some ideas.I did like the results.
Key features,they are fast!2.75 or so magnification is plenty to place an effective 300 yd shot.I recall Mr Cooper placing that criteria.I think some resistance to the IER scope is about looking funny,maybe ugly,even.Thats OK,but the scout is out of the box thinking,and it works.
I recall Redfield introducing them,targeting the 94 Win.
They(scout rifle) were not intended to be something our military would carry.The semi-auto battle rifle arguement is misplaced.It misses the point.Mr Cooper,IIRC,narrowed it to controlled round feed bolt action.
He also wanted stripper clip loading.IMO,its about a handi to carry rifle,particularly for crawling though bushes ,under fences,etc.
One advantage of IER scope mounting and not having a projecting box magazine,your one hand wraps around the rifle at the balance point.That means the other hand is useful.
IMO,the box mag is a marketing game,it suggests the profile of an M-14.Its a "look" thing.
In the role Mr Cooper talked about,the "scout" travels light,and likely does not have an ammo resupply.The target might be food,or foe,but slipping away rather than overwhelming firepower was the plan.
Flash suppressor,not a bad plan.
This rifle is OK,its not one I'm likely to prioritize.

natman
March 25, 2011, 04:20 AM
Ruger is exporting to Australia, a 20" version w/o the flash suppressor.
I read this on another forum from an Aussie. I have no other proof.

They are.
http://www.bankstowngunshop.com.au/Ruger_Gunsite_Scout

Now if they just swapped for a lighter stock and got rid of the ridiculous magazine....

orsogato
March 26, 2011, 07:13 AM
They should have made this accept m-14 magazines. It would sell like hot cakes.

They should make their mini 30 accept AK-47 magazines while they are at it. Same thing.

THORN74
March 26, 2011, 10:24 AM
my $0.02..... i like it. Im not a hunter, and i know there are better hunting rifles, but this seemes to be to be a good backpacking rifle. small, light weight, hopefully accurate out to 300-400 yrds (likely beyond), lots of scope mount options. I can see myself using this to hunt while camping. and .308win is strong enough to take just about anything in north america.

and i agree with the las poster m14 mags or even fal mags would have been a better choice.

Katophract
March 26, 2011, 11:39 PM
So, its a rifle for a 'scout' but not made for combat because a scout isn't made for combat...then why carry a gun? Or better yet, why not carry a gun that can actually be used in combat?
It looks like a fun gun, but like usual, Ruger failed on a lot of points, mainly the ridiculous magazine.

juan_matus
March 27, 2011, 02:21 PM
I have an early prototype of the scout rifle it is chambered in 7.62 Nato. It comes with a flash hider an aperture sight and a 16" barrel. I can also put a bayonet on mine for when my ammo runs out. It's an FR8 mauser LOL

Come and take it.
March 28, 2011, 05:08 PM
the major point of a scout rifle scope mounted forward of the loading port is to facilitate the use of stripper clips. nothing more, nothing less. If I am not mistaken there isnt a stripper guide on a ruger scout.

fail

scoutman
March 29, 2011, 06:22 AM
Not true. Scope forward facilitates eyes off loading because with the scope forward the access to the action is clear. Also,makes toting the rifle easier because it can be grasped at the balance of the rifle.

pmeisel
March 29, 2011, 07:08 AM
makes toting the rifle easier because it can be grasped at the balance of the rifle.

Very true, one of the reasons that I have often foregone scopes for peep sights when the shooting was short enough....

RangerDoc
April 4, 2011, 01:51 PM
For the last 3 months I've been following the threads on this rifle. Last week, I handled one in the local gunshop and was instantly infatuated! Great balance, perfect weight, one of the best outathebox triggers I've ever encountered in a bolt action. All the comments on magazine choice are appropriate: it was bone-headed to NOT build this rifle around a commonly available double stack mag. and I bought it anyway- just too sweet to pass up. I've ordered another 10 rd and a 5 rd AI mag for it- way too expensive. I'll submit a range report in a few works on a new thread.
No doubt that you could fight OR hunt with this rifle effectively; the same could be said of an AR-10 or an M1A, but there is a certain elegance to a bolt action rifle....it should be great fun to shoot