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View Full Version : trailer park safe .223 bullet?


whiplash
December 26, 2010, 04:15 PM
Looking for some input on a .223 bullet that is for the most part trailer park safe, as far as penetration. I tried to post this on officer forums, but had some log on isues.....anyway, our dept is looking for a better/safer round for trailer park type entries. Ive looked at some manufactures LE charts and seen some Sierra Matchkings seem to have less penetration....any comments?

DiscoRacing
December 26, 2010, 04:17 PM
Interesting question... never seen it put like that before..
... my guess would be nonlethal rounds,,, bags or rubber I would guess.

Mike38
December 26, 2010, 04:34 PM
Hornady V-Max or Nosler Ballistic Tips are highly frangible bullets. I don’t know for certain how they react to light building material, but in tissue they break apart and slow down rapidly. They are also very accurate bullets which is a plus. The more often you hit the intended target, the less you have to worry about missed shots penetrating walls. Maybe Hornady or Nosler could give you some info if they have done testing.

hooligan1
December 26, 2010, 04:42 PM
HAHA what the?? .223 fmj that'll shoot through a trailer easy!!:rolleyes:;) Are you seriuos??? that question should be banned!:cool:

whiplash
December 26, 2010, 05:04 PM
i am sure most would want an entry team to use a bullet that is less penatrating (as possible), so shots wont hit their sleeping kids on the other side of the walls...

Double Naught Spy
December 26, 2010, 06:36 PM
i am sure most would want an entry team to use a bullet that is less penatrating (as possible), so shots wont hit their sleeping kids on the other side of the walls...

Our SWAT team used 35 grain Hornady. Their logic is that they would rather risk return fire from a suspect than to have a round overpenetrate and kill another officer or non-combatant. The count on their skill, superior numbers, and body armor to protect them long enough to put enough rounds on the threat that the threat is stopped. I am glad I am not one of our SWAT officers because that seems like a very risky bit of reasoning.

Getting back to the OP, I don't believe there is a single round that I would consider good for self defense that would be "safe" inside a trailer park. If a round is going to sufficiently penetrate a human, it is going to easily penetrate the thin skin of most trailer homes. Unless the round hits some sort of heavy steel support or wood, the thin metal skin, light insullation, and interior wall material cannot be counted on to disrupt the round sufficient that is won't hurt anybody on the other side.

An article several years ago about specialty handgun rounds that boasted not over-penetrating had results that you likely would get with the rifle ammo. Based on their tests, a shot that did not hit their simulated human first, that just hit the walls directly, had no problem overpenetrating interior dual course drywall and some a second set, or about what a trailer exterior wall would be like.

Round that overpenetrated their "human" did not then penetrate drywall.

They noticed that most other hollowpoint ammo performed comparably if passing through a torso thickness.

In short, the reduced risk of overpenetration meant nothing if you missed the body of your target.

You could go with extremely light ammo like our SWAT guys and reduce the risk of harming somebody on the other side of multiple trailers, but otherwise if you want a round that will penetrate will enough to be more likely to have the desired effect, it is going to be a round that probably isn't trailer park safe for missed shots.

Elkins45
December 26, 2010, 06:47 PM
I think the round you're looking for isn't fired out of a .223 rifle. It's fired out of a 12 gauge shotgun and is called a #8 target load.

10mmAuto
December 26, 2010, 07:17 PM
If you're confident in your shot placement Hornady V-MAX 55gr would almost definitely not overpenetrate a human torso. It would go through a trailer body without issue though. I think just about any .223 load will. Take the other poster's suggestion and go with a 12 gauge target load if you want something that won't penetrate the trailer in a big way but still have adequate terminal affect.

rdmallory
December 26, 2010, 07:17 PM
The only thing come to mind is a Glaser round.

http://www.shopcorbon.com/Glaserandreg-Safety-Slug/223-556-45gr-Glaser/05400/500/Product

But a good pump up BB gun will go through a metal trash can so I would still be careful.

Doug

ohen cepel
December 26, 2010, 07:24 PM
I would consider frangible 5.56. However, I would test it myself for your exact purpose before I bet my life and others lives on it.

That is a tough question.

Picher
December 26, 2010, 07:25 PM
The closest thing to a minimal wall penetrator would be something like a .223 Rem, 50 grain Sierra Blitz bullet, pushed to factory specs. Unfortunately, it would not penetrate a perpetrator very far, causing serious, but surface wounds if bone were struck.

4runnerman
December 26, 2010, 08:13 PM
Thats a tough one there.Heck a BB gun will go through a trailer. I would have to go with the V-Max also. Maybe in a 35 grain,I think 55 would be a little on the big side. Shot placement is going to be the deciding factor in this case.:)

Brit
December 26, 2010, 08:42 PM
223 frangible, talk to the manufacturers, see what they have in the way of information. At over 3000 fps that bullet will more or less blow up on anything in a dwelling! And two of them in the torso? RIP.

But be aware, 9mm penetrates worse.

RickE
December 26, 2010, 08:46 PM
Nothing that will stop a human will not penetrate a tin trailer.

Rob228
December 26, 2010, 09:16 PM
Maybe one of the Varmint Grenades?

GeauxTide
December 26, 2010, 09:21 PM
I'd go down the path of tools used by LEO on commercial flights. A rifle in a trailer seems awfully cumbersome and powerful.

whiplash
December 26, 2010, 10:45 PM
To all, thanks for the input....as far as shotgun, have one of those as well in the truck w/ OO buck. Sometimes I just feel better taking the AR instead of the scattergun. I know everything has its place and application. Lots of tools in the tool box. I still have to talk to some other agencies SWAT brotheren this week.

publius
December 26, 2010, 11:09 PM
The title of this post made me laugh. seriously though, i would say a light 40gr. varmint round and 0 misses. I've shot my Sheridan pellet gun through the side of a trailer.

HiBC
December 26, 2010, 11:36 PM
One of the varmint bullet mfg;s claims to have hi-speed photo of a varmint bullet going off on a grape.The Sierra MK would not be a good choice.They are accepted as Mil battlefield bullets.
It may be a very skilled and diciplined person,perhaps with a laser,just would not lose rounds.But,in a trailer park,high density ,the thin tin,as has been said,anything that would be safe to use would compromise the effectiveness of the AR.Cycling/reliability may be an issue.
Bean bags out of a 37mm might work.A Bennelli full of pheasant loads might work well.Flash bangs.Dogs.Cut the lights and gas them out.There is likely an alternative to blazing away with an AR.
Question.what is the bust?
You can't flush a meth lab down the toilet.Kidnap/hostage? extremes may be justifiable.
Posession of a controlled substance?........Might be a risk management issue.Is risking innocents worth it?

Brit
December 27, 2010, 06:42 AM
You can't flush a meth lab down the toilet.

Touching off a rifle in close proximity, could put all inside through the roof?

10mmAuto
December 27, 2010, 07:08 AM
The closest thing to a minimal wall penetrator would be something like a .223 Rem, 50 grain Sierra Blitz bullet, pushed to factory specs. Unfortunately, it would not penetrate a perpetrator very far, causing serious, but surface wounds if bone were struck.
Edit-misread post.

stevelyn
December 27, 2010, 08:15 AM
Our department uses Hornady TAP.

10mmAuto
December 27, 2010, 08:16 AM
Our department uses Hornady TAP
+1
I shoot raccoons, coyote, etc with TAP in .308 - 168gr. No exit wounds. At any range.

Bartholomew Roberts
December 27, 2010, 09:37 AM
You are looking at a very specialized load that will probably have drawbacks associated with it. You need to contact an expert in the field (http://le.atk.com/) rather than rely on the Internet given the serious consequences and potential liability.

Lashlarue
December 27, 2010, 09:41 AM
The Lake City m193 which was recently removed from Nato service due to failure to penetrate car doors and windshields.Bullet splinters on contact, very good on bad guys in the open, not so good if bad guy has cover.The m855 will go through three mobile homes kill grandma,grandpa and the bad guy...:eek:

bradypatullo87
December 27, 2010, 04:56 PM
HIBC had some nice alternatives, but I would be apprehensive to toss a flash bang into a meth lab.

cajun47
December 27, 2010, 06:03 PM
how about a sig 522 with some high quality dependable .22lr ammo like cci? im not joking. i shot 800+ rounds of cheap bulk ammo through my sig 522 and had two cycling failures and two failure to fire. all where easy to clear. i blame the cheap ammo and not the weapon. a red dot site is perfect for close quarters. very accurate rifle too.

i haven't tried the 50 round mags yet, only the 25 round black dog that came with the rifle. i would use the sig 522 for home defense over my shotguns.

kraigwy
December 27, 2010, 06:15 PM
The Lake City m193 which was recently removed from Nato service due to failure to penetrate car doors and windshields.Bullet splinters on contact, very good on bad guys in the open,

Thats the same answer I got when I looked up the defination of 'INTENET MYTH" in the dictionary.

I've seen several people shoot with the M193 55 grn. ball ammo. little people, some not wearing more the a silk shirt. I even shot a water buffalo with those bullets,

THEY DO NOT SPATTER