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View Full Version : .375 H&H stainless woes...


Ticonderoga
December 23, 2010, 02:13 PM
I'm looking to buy a rifle in .375 H&H & prefer a controlled round feed. While searching I've had my eye on the (current production) Winchester Mod 70 Safari, the CZ 550 & the Remington 798 (Serbian Mauser).

But, as I thought about it, I realized that I wanted stainless & synthetic as I plan to use the rifle quite a bit and will be in some inclement weather.

The problem is, there are really NO stainless CRF guns in the >$1200 range. I just love the "look" of the Ruger Alaskan but they only come in .375 Ruger. I'm sure the die-hard Ruger fans will applaud this round but I'll never buy it for two reasons: first, ammo availability in Africa, and second, I won't buy something that's forced on me. That Ruger won't make a stainless gun in H&H sort of "forces" you into their round. I think that it is anti-freedom and I'll have no part of it (same reason I don't own an ipod, I won't subject myself to itunes).

For the life of me, I cannot understand why Winchester discontinued the .375 stainless in 2005. Every site I see that offers one for sale it is snatched up inside of 24 hours.

If CZ offered a 550 in stainless I'd buy it tomorrow. With such a demand for .375 H&H CRF guns, why don't any of the "big" manufacturers produce them any more? Winchester could make some $, or so I think.

I've now turned my sights to the Kimber Talkeetna, a rather beautiful gun that reviews like a tack driver, albeit an expensive one.

Anyone have any thoughts, ideas, or know of a buddy selling a .375 H&H stainless CRF gun?

just for reference:

the Mod 70 in stainless:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/historic-detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535012

and the Talkeetna:

http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/rifles/specialty/talkeetna/

both are beautiful rifles

natman
December 23, 2010, 02:46 PM
For the life of me, I cannot understand why Winchester discontinued the .375 stainless in 2005.

Probably for the usual reason; they weren't selling enough of them to make it worthwhile.

It's a shame because the package makes a lot of sense. If I lived in Alaska I would definitely own one. But I don't and I don't.

taylorce1
December 23, 2010, 03:05 PM
Browing made an A-Bolt Stainless Stalker in .375 H&H might look for one of those. MRC will make you a stainless .375 H&H as well as several other gunmakers out there if you are willing to open your pocket book. Most people who hunt Africa want a wood and blue rifle that is why most companies have dropped the stainless synthetic .375 H&H rifles.

I own the Ruger as well in a blued wood stalked rifle and while I don't know the ammo availability in Africa is. I figured if I ever take it on safari then I'll take my own hand loaded ammo. If my ammunition gets lost and I can't find any, I'll borrow a rifle from my PH if I ever hunt Africa.

Love the H&H and someday I might just get me one but more than likely it will be wearing a nice walnut stock and have a high luster blue finish on it.

Scorch
December 23, 2010, 03:41 PM
Ruger Mk II Magnum Bolt Action and the CZ 550 Safari Classic comes close to your spec of CRF and 375 H&H. Of course, they are both walnut/blued, so there's that. Or you can get in contact with a FFL holder and have him order one of the Zastava Mausers. They are available in stainless, and in 375 H&H.
http://www.ussginc.com/pdfs/USSG_2011_Z98_Z5.pdf

Winchester Modfel 70 in stainless and 375 H&H can be found on the used market. It will be hard to find one for less than $1200, though. Anything in 375 H&H is probably going to cost more.

overland
December 23, 2010, 04:20 PM
Doesn't Tikka make a 375 in stainless? I recall looking at their web site some time back that they had one for harsh conditions.

I also agree with the 375 Ruger. Good luck finding that ammo especially out of the country. Ruger's claims about it out performing the Holland have been doubted by some later tests of both rounds.

JerryHN
December 23, 2010, 05:16 PM
Doesnt Sako make a stainless for 375HH. I think its called the Kodiak. Not sure if its a true crf though.
What does everyone think about the Sako Kodiak compared to the M70 and CZ?

overland
December 23, 2010, 05:56 PM
You' re right. Sako Kodiak in 375 or 338. Laminated stock and stainless. Nice!

Scorch
December 23, 2010, 11:57 PM
Yes, Sako and Tikka do make a 375 H&H. Read the OP, he wants CRF, and neither the Sako nor the Tikka come in CRF.

Ticonderoga
December 24, 2010, 01:55 AM
Thanks for the suggestions guys.

The Sako is a beautiful rifle and I fell in love with it at first sight. Unfortunately, Browning's A-bolt is push feed as is the Sako. I have not yet looked at the Tikka, I'll have to check that out.

So far as Mod 70 Classics in stainless, I've seen 3 (after searching for a week), two were $2300 (why not just buy the Kimber) and one is $1400; I've got an email to that dealer but no response as of yet. Will try calling but phones are dodgy over here.

I just can't believe that there isn't a market for a Win Mod 70 in stainless considering how quickly they are snapped up on the used market. I think that a lot of folks in Alaska would take one. I've seen a few stainless with laminated light wood stocks and they are beautiful (like the Sako).

I may well end up with a Rem 798, CZ 550 or a a blue/wood Mod 70, but you all know how it is, once you set your heart on a particular gun, its hard to go with something "else."

Slopemeno
December 24, 2010, 02:57 AM
People who want traditional features usually want traditional finishes. Have you considered replacing and selling the walnut, and having the action hard-chromed?

Ticonderoga
December 24, 2010, 03:23 AM
I checked out the Tikka; it looks like they only go up to .338

The Sako Kodiak is a very sharp looking game rifle but I don't like its 21 1/4" barrel. The hunter laminated stainless has a 24" barrel but doesn't appear to have sights. I'm only looking at the Sako again after I've read a number of articles on the push feed vs. controlled feed debate.

It looks like many of the new controlled feed guns, to include the Rugers aren't bona fide CRF guns, they are a hybrid CRF/PF.

From what I've read in the articles, the old CRF design was to prevent double feeds caused by short stroking of the bolt & greater extraction abilities.

It seems that the "new" CRF guns will allow a 2nd round to feed before ejection. So, if you short stroke one of these, it will double feed as well. The larger stronger Mauser extractor (or so I've read) is really moot these days as brass is much stronger and deformed/stuck cases are more a phenomenon of the early 20th Century.

If most current manufactured guns with supposed CRF can allow a double feed, what's the point of paying a premium for them and limit my selection to these guns.

Here are some of the debates that I read on the CRF issue:

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/2279-contro

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315503

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2211978

BusGunner007
December 24, 2010, 03:27 AM
That Model 70 you mentioned was my original choice many years ago and I never went for it.
Ended up with a 700 / .375 RUM instead. :D

Yet, the mystique of the .375 H&H and my preference for 'Remington' still haunts me.
I like your idea of the 798, and the above poster mentioned a refinish...not a bad idea.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/047700898469.html
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/rem/rem_798_safari.jpg

A worthy project, indeed.
Good luck.

BusGunner007
December 24, 2010, 03:32 AM
I read an article many years ago by Ross Seyfried about his Remington 700 / .416 Rem.Mag. that he used in Africa as a DGR.
I wish I could remember the issue! RIFLE Journal, Sep 1999 or something.
He said he never had a problem with the feed/ejection with his PF 700 fixed-magazine.
Potent argument FOR the PF/700 in a very capable cartridge.
Food for thought.

Anybody have info on that article?

Sand Creek Kennels
December 24, 2010, 05:39 PM
Are u aainst the ruger No.1 Tropical? It is a H&H..

Stevie-Ray
December 24, 2010, 06:46 PM
Did you check this Sako? I thought you wanted synthetic. No sights, though.

Synthetic stainless (http://www.sako.fi/sako85models.php?synthss)

Sand Creek Kennels
December 24, 2010, 06:51 PM
What are you hunting ny the way?

coltaholic
December 24, 2010, 08:42 PM
try this

gb #207922295

ndking1126
December 24, 2010, 08:49 PM
(same reason I don't own an ipod, I won't subject myself to itunes).


+1!!

Ticonderoga
December 25, 2010, 01:49 PM
I'll probably hunt boar with it this spring and then eventually plan to take an Elk, some deer next fall and eventually a bear, maybe a moose and then some game in Africa. I have two S. African colleauges at work and one has friends who are guides and his elephant stories have rekindled my desire to take a safari.

Hadn't considered a chrome job. I'm overseas and would like to have the gun ready to go when I get home; a stainless job with a scope mounted and bore sighted is what I have in mind...

Ticonderoga
December 26, 2010, 02:00 PM
I was pretty excited when I saw this link... and then I saw the text in the yellow highlight:

http://www.ozarkguns.com/Winchester/70%20Classic%20SS/70_class_ss.htm

Ticonderoga
January 4, 2011, 07:56 AM
After searching high and wide since Thanksgiving I finally found my rifle :)

I found two other stainless Mod 70 Classics in the $1200 to $1400 range, both used and in "near new" condition. Both were on the factory plastic stocks. As many of you had mentioned, a blued rifle on walnut looks much more appealing (in the Safari sense at least) than silver on black. So, I had considered getting a laminate stock as I think stainless on wood, especially if it is "pretty" wood looks very nice. I found Boyd's Gunstocks (http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/) and they sell some beautiful laminated stocks and had considered the .375 at $1200 with a grey/black wood laminate.

And then, I found this rifle for $1400; it is already on a laminate stock that has been aluminum pillared and glass bedded, has some fancy schmancy carving on the mag floor plate and a 3.5 lb polished trigger job. I think that the combo of stainless rifle, scope and rails is a beautiful contrast against the wood.

I inquired with the seller about the Zeiss scope & quick detach rings and he agreed to leave them on for $500 more; as these were put on by a gunsmith and have already been bore-sighted it should save me some headache. Can't wait to get my new toy in and get it to the range. I expect shipment early next week.

http://placetoparkmyphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/wm_2177202.jpg

http://placetoparkmyphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/wm_21772011.jpg

http://placetoparkmyphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/wm_21772001.jpg

http://placetoparkmyphotos.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/wm_21771991.jpg

Abel
January 4, 2011, 08:54 AM
Man, you couldn't have asked for a better outcome! With a Zeiss too! Good luck sighting her in.

Slamfire
January 4, 2011, 09:29 AM
I inquired with the seller about the Zeise scope & quick detach rings and he agreed to leave them on for $500 more

You got a Ziess Scope for $500! What a deal.

Based on all the work performed on your rifle, the seller took a beating.

It is a sad fact but the money spent customizing a rifle is money that you will never recoup upon resale.

The scroll work is nice, I don't remember those on factory rifles.

Magnum Wheel Man
January 4, 2011, 10:07 AM
WOW... VERY VERY nice looking rifle... I have a Browning Stainless Stalker in 375 H&H & love the rifle, but your new one puts mine to shame, at least in the looks department...

BTW... I also have a "Stalker" in 338 Win Mag, & the 338 out penitrates my 375 H&H ( at least using Federal premium Safari factory ammo in both ) in fact the 338 was regularly blowing through my old ranges 100 yard backstop ( a huge freezer stuffed solid with sheet rock )... I never had a 375 penitrate my backstop, but when I noticed about every other round from the 338 going through, I decided it was time to do the work, & stretch my range out to 300 yards, & build a better backstop :) still love the 375, but the 338 seems to fly flatter & hits harder

Ticonderoga
January 4, 2011, 10:27 AM
Slamfire: how right you are about resale values. I think I sold 3 guns early on when I first started shooting after turning 18. I regretted selling all of them and haven't sold a gun in over 20 years. The safe is overstuffed but I have never had to lament resale values LOL.

MWM: interesting on the .338. Certainly the .338 has a smaller frontal cross section and can get some good penetration. I'm sure the .375 carries more stopping power. I'm curious what both rounds would do when firing round nose solids? And of course, most countries in Africa require a min of .375 for hunting DG.

Even though the gun will be shipped to my FFL next week, I won't be back in the states til end of February. Oh, its going to be a long wait... :(

Magnum Wheel Man
January 4, 2011, 10:31 AM
BTW... both of my Federal Safari loads ( 338 & 375 ) used Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, which seem like 1st rate projectiles...

& my focus for hunting was Alaska, not Africa, so the stainless & synthetic made perfect sense to me...

my 338...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65871&stc=1&d=1294155515

my 375...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28936&d=1197860570

Slamfire
January 4, 2011, 02:07 PM
Slamfire: how right you are about resale values. I think I sold 3 guns early on when I first started shooting after turning 18. I regretted selling all of them and haven't sold a gun in over 20 years. The safe is overstuffed but I have never had to lament resale values LOL.


I tell people that I am going to have a great estate sale. :D

Abel
January 5, 2011, 05:53 PM
Not CRF, but nice!

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=023B&cat_id=035&type_id=202A&content=x-bolt-stainless-stalker-open-sights-firearms

BIGR
January 5, 2011, 07:09 PM
Nice looking rifle. Should get the job done for you.

Ticonderoga
January 5, 2011, 07:44 PM
Abel, I think you're refering to MWM's Browning; mine is a Win 70 Classic on page 1.

Nice looking rifle by the way MWM; I've always been a fan of black and stainless. I succumbed to the snobbery of Africa and got wood furniture LOL. :D

wilmot7380
January 26, 2012, 01:19 PM
are you still looking?

Irish B
January 26, 2012, 02:05 PM
I have an iPod with some 3000 songs and have never bought a single song from itunes. Just sayin

kraigwy
January 26, 2012, 02:12 PM
I spent 22 years in Alaska, from 72-94. In 94 I bought a Model 70 in 375 H&H, blue and wood.

I hunted all over that state, from the Afognak to the interior. Hunted in the salt spay on the coast. The finish on my blued Model 70 was never tarnished.

I do like to keep it rubbed down with Rig though. I still have that rifle and it still looks great.

warbirdlover
January 26, 2012, 02:40 PM
That Model 70 you found in the laminated stock is absolutely fantastic. I am SOOOOO jealous!!! :eek:

Mike1234
January 26, 2012, 03:07 PM
What's the advantage of CRF?

TX Hunter
January 27, 2012, 02:18 PM
I think Ruger made a huge mistake when they tried to compete with the 375 H&H Magnum. what they should have done was to chamber their Safari Rifle, in that round.
The 375 H&H is to Africa, what the 30 06 is to North America.:)