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View Full Version : which Gun in sticky situation?


ipscchef
December 20, 2010, 09:07 PM
OK,
I would like to give you all a hypothetical situation and get your opinions.
Here we go. You are up in the Great White North somewhere- Alaska or Canada. you are on a salmon fishing getaway. You fished the early morning and went back to your tent for a quick nap. You wake up and stumble out of your tent in the early afternoon to find a large Brown Bear taking inventory of your cooler about say, 100 feet away. He starts to look at you like you are a giant corn dog that would make a dandy lunch for him and he starts toward you in a very menacing manner.:eek::( You have right next to you two rifles leaning up against the tailgate of your truck. One is a Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70 Loaded with 405gr. Hardcast Bullets that go about 1700fps. out of that gun. The other is a Weatherby Mark V in .300 Weatherby with a good stout bullet, say a partition or Barnes X, or your choice, but in 200gr. that clocks an honest 2950fps. both are in the same general state of readiness, one up the pipe and three in the tube or mag. The Bear is getting closer and closer. You have no avenue of escape. He WILL eat you if you do not stop him. My question is (obviously), Which gun do you reach for first to STOP the Bruin from making you into Lunch and subsequently Bear-Poo later?:eek:
I know which I would most likely go to, but I would like to get the opinion from the rest of you guys.
If it makes a difference you can sub. bullet choices within reason, but please stick to the basic parameters.

Willy H.

Quentin2
December 20, 2010, 09:09 PM
I'd yell "Beam me up, Scotty!" :p

Therealkoop
December 20, 2010, 09:13 PM
Guide gun

Vermonter
December 20, 2010, 09:19 PM
My reason is strictly due to the fact that I feel more confident with quick follow up shots with that lever setup. If it were my tailgate I would reach for the keys and do the old "see ya later bye." (assuming there were no family members depending on my shooting.
Vermonter

Jimro
December 20, 2010, 09:20 PM
The one I shoot better of course.

Jimro

dalegribble
December 20, 2010, 09:22 PM
i would take the guide gun.
1. the weatherby would probably be scoped. i think that would be a disadvantage at 100'.
2. the marlin i believe would hold more ammo than the bolt rifle so why not have it fully loaded. plus, open sights would be an advantage at that range.

sparky241
December 20, 2010, 09:23 PM
i think i would go with the marlin. i think it would have quicker follow up shots if they were needed.the bolt gun would probable have a scope which will be useless at 100ft.plus im a sucker for 45/70

pabuckslayer08
December 20, 2010, 09:26 PM
The guide gun would be better to go with no doubt. But me personally am not comfortable and experianced enough with a lever action to do that, so id reach for the .300 with any type of bullet. Id just feel more comfortable with that gun but not the caliber.

556Isdeadly
December 20, 2010, 09:30 PM
An M1 carbine , So I could make the bear trip by shooting it's knees

BfloBill
December 21, 2010, 12:09 AM
Guide gun. Faster handling, faster follow up shots, better for closer range.

HorseSoldier
December 21, 2010, 01:00 AM
That's a hypothetical? Sounds more like August ;)

Anyway -- another vote for the Guide Gun. 45-70 or 12 gauge slugs are usually the thump of choice for bear defense up here for a reason, though bear attacks can be and have been stopped by smaller bore rifles and handguns. Besides the big, heavy bullet going downrange, I agree with the other posters who noted rate of fire would probably be better with the Guide Gun.

Volucris
December 21, 2010, 01:20 AM
A Saiga 12 with a drum mag and slugs.

rdmallory
December 21, 2010, 09:21 AM
None of you would try reasoning with the bear first?
Or just offering him some food like a can of spam or your dog?:confused:


Or do what Jeremiah Johnson did in the move. Let you buddy handle it.

Mike Irwin
December 21, 2010, 09:28 AM
Oh come now, kill a bear for stealing your food?

I'd sit down with him and have a bear-to-man talk and explain to him just why stealing robs him of his sense of self worth.

Then I'd arrange to get him into a welfare program and register him to vote Democrat.

Guns are evil, mmmmkay?







:p


I think that situation I'd definitely go with the Guide Gun, but I'd really want a howitzer.

twins
December 21, 2010, 10:09 AM
Are you sure it was a large brown bear? Or was it Kate Gosselin complaining of hunger on her "Alaska camping" trip with Sarah Palin? As our first lesson in hunter safety course teaches us, make sure of your target before pulling the trigger.

All kidding aside, the guide gun. I've never shot one so I probably would miss and knock myself out before the bear munch on me.

thesheepdog
December 21, 2010, 10:10 AM
Guide gun for sure.

Mosinnagant
December 21, 2010, 10:15 AM
Ill take the 45-70 althoug i have always wanted to try the S&W 500 mag.:D

Willie Lowman
December 21, 2010, 11:41 AM
The one I shoot better of course.

My grandfather used to hunt brown bears with a .308 Norma Magnum. The .300 Weatherby is close to that.

But I don't fish so I have safely avoided your problem.

jmr40
December 21, 2010, 12:06 PM
Of those 2, the guide gun. I'd personally prefer one of the Remington 7600 carbines in 35 Whelen.

overland
December 21, 2010, 12:17 PM
Marlin Guide Gun and pray that you don't panic and short lever the action jamming it. I'd prefer a Ruger Alaskan in .375 or the something similar. Make sure you take the trophy and send a pic to PETA for fun.

However, if you are a liberal, you won't need a gun. You should just apologize to the bear for invading its land, taking its food, causing global warming by exhaling, etc.

Kreyzhorse
December 21, 2010, 12:25 PM
The guide gun in 45-70 of course. Regardless of it's lack of speed, 405grs packs a pretty good punch.

Buzzcook
December 21, 2010, 02:20 PM
Oh come now, kill a bear for stealing your food?

I'd sit down with him and have a bear-to-man talk and explain to him just why stealing robs him of his sense of self worth.

Then I'd arrange to get him into a welfare program and register him to vote Democrat.

Guns are evil, mmmmkay?



Or get him a job at a bank and register him as a republican. Cause people who work for a living are fools waiting to hand their earning to their wealthy betters.

grubbylabs
December 21, 2010, 03:32 PM
The guide guns seems to be better set up for self defense with open sites and a large heavy bullet meant for stopping while being able to deliver faster follow up shots. The 300 seems to me to be more set up for hunting, scope, fast heavy bullet meant for penetrating as far as possible.

DiscoRacing
December 21, 2010, 03:37 PM
Weatherby....AFter stopping him for a sec to show him the S&W 460 that I took into the tent with me....Then he would probably try to convince me not to shoot at him so that he could be able to try to get one for himself in the future.:confused:

m&p45acp10+1
December 21, 2010, 03:50 PM
I would have bear spray, and the Guide Gun for a just in case measure. Along with a .460 XVR snubnose on my hip incase the rifle was not enough.

overland
December 21, 2010, 04:27 PM
Well a couple rounds from either rifle into the ground in front of the bear will likely deter it. But given that your truck is right there, probably best to get in and drive off if it doesn't leave. You are at fault for leaving the fish in the cooler out in the open that attracted the beast in the first place. Why waste a brown bear for your own mistake?

dgludwig
December 21, 2010, 05:11 PM
Well a couple rounds from either rifle into the ground in front of the bear will likely deter it. But given that your truck is right there, probably best to get in and drive off if it doesn't leave. You are at fault for leaving the fish in the cooler out in the open that attracted the beast in the first place. Why waste a brown bear for your own mistake?

Clever idea, that. Wasting half of your ammunition in hopes of scaring the bear away. Maybe you should read the bear its PETA rights first. :rolleyes:

markj
December 21, 2010, 05:18 PM
I would invite him to stay for dinner and get the frying pans ready.

Or do the crocidile dundee dog hypnotize move and then hit him over the head with the frying pan and get to skinning.

orangello
December 21, 2010, 05:26 PM
Well a couple rounds from either rifle into the ground in front of the bear will likely deter it. But given that your truck is right there, probably best to get in and drive off if it doesn't leave. You are at fault for leaving the fish in the cooler out in the open that attracted the beast in the first place. Why waste a brown bear for your own mistake?

To remind his comrades of their place in the food chain, below armed humans.

overland
December 21, 2010, 05:33 PM
"Clever idea, that. Wasting half of your ammunition in hopes of scaring the bear away. Maybe you should read the bear its PETA rights first."

Well its a hell of a lot more clever than yours and most of the other responses. That is, if you see something shoot it. That brilliant. Also, I'd take a lot more than four rounds of ammo into bear country.

dgludwig
December 21, 2010, 05:55 PM
Also, I'd take a lot more than four rounds of ammo into bear country.

I certainly can understand that-what with you firing all those warning shots. You might even want to consider wearing a bandoleer...:rolleyes:

JiminTexas
December 21, 2010, 08:20 PM
I have answered the age old question of, "Where do you shoot a charging bear?" The answer is any damn place you can hit him. The answer to your question is, whichever one comes to hand first and when you run out of bullets pick up the other one and empty it into him too. The good thing is that bears are knocked down pretty easily. The bad thing is that they keep getting up.

grubbylabs
December 21, 2010, 09:26 PM
If a bear is less than 100 feet and closing you are already on the losing end. Warning it is not a priority for me, saving my back side is. When I finally learn to talk to bears I will consider asking it if it means me harm before shooting it, until then I will empty every round available to me into its carcass.

MLeake
December 21, 2010, 09:36 PM
... if you are carrying more than four shots in bear country, they probably aren't in your guide gun, as it has a four round tube.

You might have five rounds in the gun, if you started out with a loaded chamber.

So all your extra ammo would need to be loaded from whatever container you were using, into the rifle, while the bear closed from 100ft (or wherever he was after you fired the 2 or 3 rounds you had after your warning shots).

At a 20mph charge, 100ft takes 3.4 seconds.

Have fun with that concept, if your warning shots don't work...

MLeake
December 21, 2010, 09:38 PM
Call me crazy, but in most of the areas where I've read of fishermen coming into close contact with brown bears, the fishermen have been nowhere close to a truck. Near a boat, maybe.... but normally, they've hiked a ways from whatever vehicle is in use.

Bears are fast, when they want to be. Question is, could you beat it to the truck, with enough time to open the door and get inside?

TXAZ
December 21, 2010, 09:39 PM
Even though the encounter appears to be less than a few seconds, it depends:

1) Which ever weapon is fastest to the first accurate round down range

2) Chuck Norris (can't believe everyone else missed this one)

dgludwig
December 21, 2010, 09:42 PM
Question is, could you beat it to the truck, with enough time to open the door and get inside?

If you did manage to get in your truck in time, you'd better hope those windows are rolled up. :D

Ignition Override
December 21, 2010, 09:45 PM
And with windows rolled up and the doors are locked?
Is there time for "Chirp Chirp" (key button)?

MLeake
December 21, 2010, 09:47 PM
... lost a helicopter to a brownie.

For a while, anyway.

He was flying some geologists out for a survey in either Yukon or Northwest Territory, I don't remember which.

He'd landed in a clearing, and then helped the geologists carry their equipment uphill to their initial survey point. Looking down, they saw a brown bear checking out the helicopter.

The bear then snarled, and attacked the chopper. Bashed in the windscreen, and did some other surface damage. My friend and the geologists were stunned, to say the least. The bear took one look back over its shoulder at the helicopter, seemed to nod in satisfaction, then headed back into the brush.

Bird was flyable, though mangled, and they got back to base ok. Bird then needed repairs.

My friend learned that the pilot he'd replaced had a habit of buzzing the local bears with the helo. The guy liked to watch them scatter, and thought it was funny.

Apparently, the bear remembered the helo.

I suspect the bear could have smashed up a truck fairly effectively, had it wanted.

Wolfeye
December 21, 2010, 10:13 PM
Hmm. I've never been anywhere near a truck when enjoying the Alaskan outdoors, unless I used it to haul a canoe or something. I've always hiked or taken a boat.

If I *was* that close to a truck and I were alone, I'd dive in and hope to get the engine started before a bunch of teeth shoved in through the window. If I was there with family, I'd grab a rifle to protect them.

Of the two rifles you mention, I really want to say "guide gun", but I have very little experience with lever actions (just a .22). I'd have a better chance with the bolt-action. Ideally, I'd rather have a Browning BAR in .338 wm or Remington 750 in .35 whelen.

ipscchef
December 21, 2010, 11:24 PM
Some really good responses her so far, BUT, some peole are missing the point. And/or I have to be maore precise when writing a HYPOTHETICAL post!
Overland, I am not asking you or anyone else to go out and shoot Bears or anything else because we are stupid. I was trying to create a scenario to kind of gage people's idea of which weapon would give them a better chance to survive a chance bear attack. No need for a lesson in morality:rolleyes:. I think dgluwig and many others got my intentions.
And to some others, OK the guns are not on a tailgate, there is no truck in sight. they are leaning against a table, with no food on it. The bear is interested in your fishing rod! Alright?? You do not have a giant revolver, an M1 Carbine, or any other weapon at hand, including pepper spray. Yes, I know, we SHOULD HAVE pepper spray, but the can is defective. And lets just pretend that you are as familiar and competent with either gun. Oh and the Weatherby has see through mounts. with good iron sights. And yes, you have more ammo for both guns, but they are in the truck that is not there. again, you have one in the chamber and three in the tube/mag, and the bear is too close to reload even if the truck with the ammo would have been there. I am sure someone will bring up something I have missed that has absolutly nothing to do with the scenario.:rolleyes:
I am just trying to get the opinion of the posters here how they judge the ability of one powerful weapon vs. another in a critical situation.
Oh, and Willy Lowman, you are not fishing, you are taking pictures, or don't you do that either?:p
JEEEEZ, Scotty Beam me up!!!:D:D

Win_94
December 22, 2010, 12:20 AM
Weatherby has see through mounts. with good iron sights.

I'll grab the Weatherby loaded with the 220gr RN bullets. ;)

Jimro
December 22, 2010, 01:37 AM
If you are good with your rifle you will be fast enough to crank out two shots in 3.4 seconds with a bolt rifle or lever action rifle. And those guys who use double rifles in Africa only get two shots anyways.

In terms of "stopping power" both rifles are perfectly adequate to scramble a bears brains. But the bear is not going to bleed out in 3.4 seconds if you miss the central nervous system.

Accuracy is more important than caliber. The key is to be proficient with your rifle.

I am a firm believer that bigger holes bleed more, but a 100 feet is 33.3 yards, and the rifle that you can shoulder and put a hole where you want it is much more important than how big the hole is.

The equipment isn't as important as the user.

Jimro

ethan95
December 22, 2010, 02:10 AM
guide gun, quicker follow up shots.

SLCscottie
December 22, 2010, 03:41 AM
Brown Pants and Guide Gun.

Ignition Override
December 22, 2010, 04:19 AM
MLeake:
That reminds me of a story about a Siberian tiger who had been somehow taunted by a certain villager.

The tiger finally stalked and killed the guy, days or weeks later.

m.p.driver
December 22, 2010, 04:27 AM
Throw fecal matter in his face first of all,where to find it?Dont worry it will be there.Second while he's standing there in disgust pop him with the .45-70.

sc928porsche
December 22, 2010, 06:58 AM
At that close range, whichever is nearest to you. Either will do the job. Be sure to aim that first shot!!!!! Slide another in immediately. The lever will be a tad bit faster, but not by much.

rdmallory
December 22, 2010, 07:55 AM
Pepper Spray?

I thought that was something you put put on meat to give it flavor.

Doug

giaquir
December 22, 2010, 08:06 AM
I'd reach for the guide gun because of the better
barrel grip and beat my fishing partner over the
head with it (he's always eating my liverwurst sandwiches).
No doubt he would be dazed long enuff for the bear
to maul him and I'd be finishing my lunch 2 1/2 miles
away.:D:D

markj
December 22, 2010, 04:59 PM
Grab both guns and dive under the table while flipping open yer cell phone and using speed dial to call up gecko45......


Or stay real still and the beqar will think you are an outhouse (see post about fecal matter) and leave you alone as he wanders away chewing on yer fishing pole. Did you leave the live bait there or something?


Liverswurst, Uuuuhhhh (wiping drool off chin) with horsey sauce...

topdragster257
December 22, 2010, 09:17 PM
Offer him a drink ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDIrJkNE4Jk&feature=related

bradypatullo87
December 23, 2010, 12:38 AM
45-70, less energy would be transferred but without fear of over penetration through soft tissue. The average factory loaded 300 weatherby magnums will net you between 3,400 and 4,300 lb./ft of energy while the average factory loaded 45-70 cartridge will give the bear anything from 1,300 to 3,500 lb./ft. Choose Hornady's 350 grain JFP and you give Yogi a present travelling 2,191 fps delivering 3,730 lb./ft of engery. Just make sure the shot(s) count...

if you have an M134 at your disposal, feel free to make some bear flavored swiss cheese.