PDA

View Full Version : looking for a 9mm carbine or semi auto sub machine gun.


cajun47
December 19, 2010, 06:49 PM
for home/self defense. i love my handguns but would rather get to something more if i can. imo, my ak47 is too much to use around populated areas. i tested my mossberg shotguns and im disappointed with 00buck as well as slugs at 25 and 50 yards. my glock 19 had much better groups.

i want something in 9mm. the highpoint carbine with only 10 shots is not desired. the kel tec sub 2000 looks ok:

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/sub-2000/

but is it durable? RELIABLE? the price seems too good to be true.

i would even look into a lever action in 9mm if it had 15 to 20 shots.

Vermonter
December 19, 2010, 06:54 PM
Is the mag capacity the only thing keeping you from a high point because I have seen aftermarket mags for them?

gilfo
December 19, 2010, 06:56 PM
If price is not a factor look into the Beretta CX model. It takes the hi cap Beretta mags.
I have the Sub2000 and I love it. The Beretta was out of my price zone and the KelTec fit me better.

556Isdeadly
December 19, 2010, 07:01 PM
Get a 9mm AR or The Cx4 they have 20 rounders for it I believe from pro mag or something

MLeake
December 19, 2010, 07:02 PM
Marlin used to make a camp carbine in 9mm and .45acp, but it was discontinued in 1999. You might find a used one. Aftermarket 20rd mags were available, so you might find some of those, too.

My best friend has the Kel-Tec 9mm carbine. After shooting it a couple times, I'm still surprised to say that if I could find high capacity aftermarket mags for it, I'd definitely consider it for an HD carbine.

However, since I have an M4 length AR, the HD carbine slot is taken.

Ridge_Runner_5
December 19, 2010, 07:31 PM
Is the mag capacity the only thing keeping you from a high point because I have seen aftermarket mags for them?

Only ProMag makes the hi cap mags for Hi Point last I heard, and they were all sorts of awful...feed lips that had to be modified, weak springs, etc....

556Isdeadly
December 19, 2010, 07:41 PM
Pro-mag tends to have that issue for proprietary systems. I had to carve the Feed lips on the polymer ones to get them working in the mini

dreamweaver
December 19, 2010, 07:42 PM
colt ar sporter 9mm. 32 round magazine. reliable with any 9mm ammo out there.

SIGSHR
December 19, 2010, 07:53 PM
I vote for the Marlin Camp Carbine. My S&W M-659 magazines work fine in it.

tulsamal
December 19, 2010, 07:54 PM
Centerfire is still selling the Sterling rifle. Very reliable, uses military grade magazines.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/sterlingrifle.aspx

Really the only reason I don't own one is because I might as well just add $200+ to the price. Every time I look at them they just SCREAM for the whole SBR treatment!

Gregg

Vermonter
December 19, 2010, 08:02 PM
I have used the pro mag stuff in a friends High Point 9mm hand gun and they work fine. I do not own one so the only expirence I can speak from is what I have seen from his High Point handguns. I am giving serious thought to a carbine TS myself.

The situation you describe in regards to the feed lips being bag scares me.

Hog Red
December 19, 2010, 08:06 PM
i got two words for ya.......U ZI by Vector Arms

rdx4me
December 19, 2010, 08:10 PM
Well,

I have a TEC 9 in 9mm Luger. Not too sure on the accuracy though... LOL!

Hitme
December 19, 2010, 08:46 PM
Ruger PC-9 Carbine. 15 Rnd mags.

HorseSoldier
December 19, 2010, 09:19 PM
i tested my mossberg shotguns and im disappointed with 00buck as well as slugs at 25 and 50 yards.

00 Buckshot will get the job done quite lethally at ranges where deadly force is defensible for a civilian. If you're taking shots at someone at 25 to 50 meters, you're going to have an increasingly difficult time articulating real, immediate fear for your safety and consequently increasingly likely to find yourself with the word "defendant" next to your name in court paperwork.

Bamashooter
December 19, 2010, 09:42 PM
I like the SU-2000 with Glock 17 mags. The only question would be is it built well enough to last.
The Hi-Point Carbine is reliable. Mine has a cheap red dot and it is very accurate out to 50yrds. or so. My problem with it is the 10rd. magazine. No-one makes a reliable hi-cap magazine for them. Promag tried and they didnt work out to good. If someone made a reliable one they could make alot of money becouse there are alot of people with 9mm Hi-Points.

Carne Frio
December 19, 2010, 11:01 PM
The Kel Tec should be fine for home defense. Mine is very
dependable and more accurate than me. To take to war; no.

tulsamal
December 20, 2010, 12:03 AM
If you're taking shots at someone at 25 to 50 meters, you're going to have an increasingly difficult time articulating real, immediate fear for your safety and consequently increasingly likely to find yourself with the word "defendant" next to your name in court paperwork.

I guess it depends on what state you live in and what your house and property is like. We live on 90 acres. We are the last house on a dead end road. 5-6 miles from the county seat. I could easily imagine some kind of home invasion with multiple bad guys using one or more vehicles to breach my gate. If 3-4 guys bust through my gate in a speeding pickup and then bail out and start going for my house and my shop area, I'm going to be perfectly within my legal rights to engage them. Whether they are five yards away or fifty.

The local sheriff came out to talk to me after we moved here. Craig County only has 15,000 people in it. He wanted to meet the new family and he wanted to make sure I had "real world expectations." One of the things he told me was that the deputies can't cover the entire rural county at once. If it is the middle of the night and an emergency call comes in, it could take twenty minutes for a duty officer to go from one spot to another. So he told me that should be my planning goal. To think about how I could "engage and stop" the bad guys for the twenty minutes it would take for the good guys to show up.

Gregg

Bamashooter
December 20, 2010, 12:25 AM
tulsamal,
we need more sherriff's like the one you have. that way if something did go down both of you guys are on the same page.

HorseSoldier
December 20, 2010, 01:29 AM
I guess it depends on what state you live in and what your house and property is like. We live on 90 acres. We are the last house on a dead end road. 5-6 miles from the county seat. I could easily imagine some kind of home invasion with multiple bad guys using one or more vehicles to breach my gate. If 3-4 guys bust through my gate in a speeding pickup and then bail out and start going for my house and my shop area, I'm going to be perfectly within my legal rights to engage them. Whether they are five yards away or fifty.

So in your particular circumstance and worst case scenario, the OP's AK he already mentioned would be workable, and with buckshot you wouldn't care at all about any flyers at 25 meters or slug accuracy at 50. He already stated the neighbors were too close for the AK -- and if they're close enough to sling a round into them accidentally with a rifle, they're realistically close enough to sling a pistol caliber round into as well.

we need more sherriff's like the one you have. that way if something did go down both of you guys are on the same page.

What we really need are more District Attorneys on that same sheet of music. Some places they are, some places they aren't.

cajun47
December 20, 2010, 07:58 AM
i'll agree, in most cases 50 yards is pushing "self defense" in populated areas. but 25 yards is well within defense imo.(from the highway to my front door is about 25 yards) i was thinking if i can shoot my shotgun well at 50 yards, i'll do alright at 25 yards under stress.

group17
December 20, 2010, 09:07 AM
Love my sub 2000. 30+ round Glock mags, folds down to 16 In long for easy storage. You can stash it in out of the way places a normal length rifle won't fit. Uses the same mags as my Glock pistol.

JiminTexas
December 20, 2010, 04:20 PM
Forget all that crap and get a good six shot 12 ga.

rjrivero
December 20, 2010, 04:25 PM
I built a 9mm AR that uses GLOCK mags.

There is a new lower that uses Glock Mags coming out after SHOT and it may be worth the wait.

My Lone Wolf lower works great, but I would like a bolt hold open that works. Olympic makes one with a functional BHO, but uses proprietary parts for their upper.

The only way a pistol caliber carbine makes sense is if it uses the same mags as my pistol. IMVHO.

http://www.revolverforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=46&pictureid=266

556Isdeadly
December 20, 2010, 05:12 PM
Awesome AR man. Can't believe you have all those 9mm loaded in the magazines

Skans
December 20, 2010, 05:25 PM
Sites Spectre - 30 round magazine, optional 50 round quad-stack box magazine. Accurate, double action / single action, well made and durable.....ugly as sin, though.

BoomieMCT
December 20, 2010, 05:35 PM
+1 for the Sterling. Mine has been rock soild. I'd buy it somewhere cheaper though, like here (http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/sterling-carbine,-9mm-cal-by-wiselite-/products_id/3446?SID).

tulsamal
December 21, 2010, 11:18 AM
+1 for the Sterling. Mine has been rock soild. I'd buy it somewhere cheaper though, like here.

Wow, that is a great price. I'm tempted. Definitely want to spring for that extra Sterling mag. They are a great design but they've gotten hard to find. Sure rather have a bunch of Sterling mags instead of a bunch of Sten mags!

I'll tell you, my main reason not to buy a Sterling has been a lack of a routine way to stick a red dot on one. At 49, my eyes just don't like standard iron sights anymore. I've seen some custom jobs where people found ways to mount something but have you seen anybody actually selling a solution for the rest of us?

Gregg

Willie Lowman
December 21, 2010, 11:37 AM
Look no further, friend. You've found him.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5243/5280124707_842e507960.jpg

Ridge_Runner_5
December 21, 2010, 11:45 PM
Look no further, friend. You've found him.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5243/5280124707_842e507960.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9D4EQ.jpg

BILLtheDJguy
December 22, 2010, 12:07 AM
Since you love your Glock, just get one of these...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=207594703

JUST ADD A GLOCK.....:D

tulsamal
December 22, 2010, 12:29 AM
re: Uzi

Not really fair to show a photo of it in military/LEO configuration! Show how silly it looks with a 16" barrel! Even with a short barrel, the Uzi is a brick when you consider that it is just a 9mm. Good for full auto. Maybe even good if you SBR it. Not really convinced it is much good in 16" "carbine form."

Gregg

cajun47
January 10, 2011, 05:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRYwxPCif3Q

any opinions on that one ^^^

Crosshair
January 10, 2011, 08:30 PM
Ruger PC-9 Carbine. 15 Rnd mags.
Mec-Gar makes 20 round magazines. Dead reliable in my PC-9. Pitty the PC-9 isn't made anymore.

aTm papi
January 10, 2011, 08:56 PM
you could also look at a Hi Point 995TS. i've been very happy with mine. for $220, i believe it's the best bang for the buck.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i105/mendo011/DSC02431.jpg

Forseti
January 10, 2011, 10:50 PM
An AR-15 would be better than the pistol caliber carbine.

Turns out .223 over penetrates less than 9mm once it hits something with some density. The .223 round tends to disintegrate, dissipating its energy quickly.

Surprising, but apparently true.

Look to get a short barreled AR, perhaps with a pinned flash suppressor to push it over the 16" mark.

You then have the advantage of easy access to hi cap standard mags, easy attachment of accessories, spare parts, etc.

If its really to defend your house, you may want to pay the extra $200 tax and get it with a suppressor. If not, get a good pair of active hearing protection....since you said you may shoot it in the house....

Crosshair
January 11, 2011, 11:20 PM
Turns out .223 over penetrates less than 9mm once it hits something with some density. The .223 round tends to disintegrate, dissipating its energy quickly.

Except for the inconvenient fact that it is still plenty powerful to penetrate several walls, making such a point moot.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

The fact remains that anything powerful enough to adequately penetrate a BG is going to penetrate several walls and almost certianly exit your home. So one should instead concentrate on finding something they like and can shoot proficiently with so you minimize the number of rounds you need to fire. Then make sure to not use FMJ ammo.

If its really to defend your house, you may want to pay the extra $200 tax and get it with a suppressor. If not, get a good pair of active hearing protection....since you said you may shoot it in the house....
Or you could mitigate all those problems by just getting a pistol caliber carbine, which are far quieter even unsuppressed. Going over to silencer research.com I find even a shorty 10.5" 9mm carbine meters in unsuppressed at 155.4 db while even a 16" 5.56 meters at 164.6 db. A 16" PCC barrel will do even better.

Suppressors are also not legal everywhere and you add significantly to the OAL of the gun.

Look to get a short barreled AR, perhaps with a pinned flash suppressor to push it over the 16" mark.

And put up with the deafening muzzle blast and flash compared to a PCC? Why?

You then have the advantage of easy access to hi cap standard mags, spare parts, etc.
Standard capacity mags for all of the PCCs listed are readily available
easy attachment of accessories,
How much stuff are you planning on hanging off your gun anyway? All can mount a red-dot easily and barrel clamp flashlight mounts are readily available if you actually think that's a good idea and not just another thing to snag or give you problems.

Here is a much better idea for home defense if you need lighting. Experiment to find what types and arrangements work best in your home.

http://harrogatehouseoffers.com/images/H63249---LED-NIGHTLIGHT.jpg

LED night lights take almost no power and provide good lighting for nighttime searches. You can also use the regular lights you have in your house of course too. No it doesn't make you look cool, but it's darn effective when you hear something go "crash" in the basement and need to go find out if one of your towers of stacked boxes of brass fell over or if someone is there who shouldn't be.

spare parts,
Spare parts are readily available for virtually every modern gun with the advent of the internet.

PIGMAN
January 13, 2011, 09:25 AM
J&G Sales in Prescott Az sells a neat 34 round clip fed 9mm carbine for $429

Check out the links:

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/commercial-rifles/misc-rifles/p/sterling-carbine-type-2%2C-9mm-cal-/cPath/209_342_262/products_id/4081

They also sell this cool little shooter:

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles/misc-military-rifles/p/finnish-m31-suomi-9mm-submachine-gun-style%2C-16-25in-/cPath/209_291/products_id/3889

For a 9mm carbine the UZI is hard to beat as far as reliability and parts availability

Crosshair
January 13, 2011, 09:55 AM
I have the KP-31. Reliable and accurate, but HEAVY. For an HD weapon I would choose something else.