View Full Version : Does anybody know...

October 1, 2010, 10:43 PM
Can anyone tell me what this firearm is?


S&W Kinda Guy
October 1, 2010, 11:45 PM
We will probably need more information, like...
1. Any marking or words on the gun.
2. Is it a semi-automatic or bolt action?
3. Is the magazine attached or detachable?
4. Does the barrel say what caliber?

October 2, 2010, 12:31 AM
No markings.
Attached clip.
Don't know the caliber.

Additional details:

My dead grandfather gave it to me, he was in WWII.

I really don't know anything else about the gun.

October 2, 2010, 01:30 AM
I don't see a trigger or bolt, and the reciever doesn't look like any WW II era semi-auto.
Can you dry fire it?
Can you open the action on the reciever?
If it's non-functioning it could be a training rifle. At least that would explain the complete absence of markings.

October 2, 2010, 02:36 AM
From the size of the barrel, is it a shotgun? What's the diameter of the muzzle opening? Before the GCA of 1968, some shotguns were not serialized; however, most firearms have the markings of a proof house somewhere on them. Is the base of the barrel marked, perhaps in the area hidden by the stock?

October 2, 2010, 05:52 AM

That sure looks like the Walther designed VG1 to me.
8x 57mm bolt action German home guard 'last ditch' 1945 production. Very limited numbers produced and VERY few surviving. I have only a VG5, which is by far the most common.
Would need and like to see other photos, but any of the VG series rifles are rare and very marketable.
If that is indeed a VG1, then yours is strangely missing the sling cut out, the rear ring sight, and obviously the bolt and trigger group. The magazine is also strange to say the least.

Ah come on man, your info is rather vague. You say you don't know caliber.
With no offense intended, do you know the difference between a rifle and shotgun when both are bolt action? If not, describe how big the barrel diameter is.

Is the inside of the barrel grooved with rifling? Is there a front sight? I have never heard or read of any VGs having been made as shotguns.

Without more info and photos, just my guess.

I have been wrong before, JT

Bud Helms
October 2, 2010, 06:42 AM
Moving to Harley's Research forum ...

October 2, 2010, 08:05 AM
In the VG guns, the ejector opening is forward of the magazine, this gun has it sitting over the magazine opening. My guess is bolt action shotgun, with a missing bolt.

October 2, 2010, 09:47 AM

I beg to differ. You are correct that the port is forward of the magazine (STG series) on the Gustloff designed self loading Volkssturmgewehr or aka the model 507.
However the port is directly above the magazine (G/K43 series) on the Walther designed bolt action VG1.
Which is the rifle I stated in my first post.


I am big enough to admit that I now believe I was hasty in my guess and wrong.:o It is not a VG1. Maybe I was just seeing what I wanted to see. Lesson learned.

Good thing you didn't have a BIN!

Still hoping to read more details.

Good luck with it, JT

October 2, 2010, 10:27 AM
JT, do you have a picture of a bolt action VG-1? I found pictures of the semi-auto VG 1-5, and the bolt action VG 98 (which is a single shot K98 in very rough finish); I haven't seen anything bolt action described as VG 1.

Mike Irwin
October 2, 2010, 10:56 AM
I'm guessing either an early Stevens or Mossberg bolt action shotgun.

October 2, 2010, 01:30 PM
Sorry. I was busy. Here's some more pictures.. hope this will help...




October 2, 2010, 01:33 PM
And yes I know all of the internals are missing. That is how I got it.

October 2, 2010, 02:34 PM
Looks a lot like the Wards Westernfield shown here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=584806&postcount=19), but for the additional screw that presumably takes the recoil lug needed for 12 gauge.

October 2, 2010, 02:41 PM
Stevens magazine feed .410 cal bolt action shotgun....I believe.

Mike Irwin
October 2, 2010, 04:17 PM
Bore diameter relationship to the thickness of the barrel appears to be way too big for a .410.

James K
October 2, 2010, 10:49 PM
VG.1? VG.1-5? VG. 98? Oh, come on guys, your imagination is working overtime. Not only is it not signed by A. Hitler or have Goering's name on it, it looks nothing like a VG1 or any of the other Volksturm Gewehre.

Mike is right; it is an old shotgun, maybe a Stevens 58 or something very similar, and appears to be 20 gauge.


October 3, 2010, 12:24 AM
Yeah it's old. I know that for sure.

Most of the shotguns I've seen that look similar to it, either have a carved out part on the front wood part, and have a detachable clip. This one has neither.

And again, no markings. Every gun I've seen has had markings. This is strange to me.

October 3, 2010, 01:24 AM
I just found out, it was my grandfathers fathers gun. He came from the Basque region. So it's older than I would have thought. Don't know if he brought over...

Sorry for the misinformation.

Mike Irwin
October 3, 2010, 09:37 AM
As I understand it, bolt action shotguns are almost universally a US thing, so I suspect that it wouldn't be a European gun.

October 4, 2010, 05:51 PM
I'm still confused about it having no markings.

October 4, 2010, 05:57 PM
Have you taken it out of the stock? If it's European it will have proof marks underneath the barrel. So I'm still thinking it's related to the Ward brand shotgun I linked, that knurled nut underneath and the square magazine are pretty unique. Since Montgomery Ward didn't make their own guns it's probably a rebranded Mossberg or Stevens.
Found a picture on a Gunbroker auction for a Ward Westernfield that looks very close to your action

October 4, 2010, 07:50 PM
Okay. But is the mag detachable?

mega twin
October 6, 2010, 06:54 AM
looks like a mossberg 20ga. to me.

October 6, 2010, 07:13 AM
No bolt, no trigger group, etc.....it's not a gun, it's a simulation :D

October 11, 2010, 12:02 AM
Are there any levers, buttons, recesses etc in front of or behind the magazine?
Take a picture of the magazine area from the underside, including just in front of and behind the magazine. Then someone should be able to tell you if its detachable.