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View Full Version : Shooting humility check


chaz12
May 6, 2010, 10:09 AM
I consider myself a casual shooter, and I am pleased with say a 1.5 inch group of 5 with my CZ 550 in .308. I find it shoots well with Lithuanian surplus 7.62 Nato, and I mostly use that. I shoot with a front rest and using some kind of rear bag for support. A while back I was out shooting with a friend who shoots maybe twice a year. I shot a few groups, probably averaging 1.75 - 2 inches with a flyer or two.

I give my friend a chance to shoot, and he dispenses with the rear bag, just using the front rest for support. He proceeds to shoot 5 rounds into a one inch group. He didn't choose to shoot any more after that.

I am surprised to say the least. Beginner's luck? Too small of a sample? It sure made me wonder about all this effort we put into expensive match grade ammo. Are there some guys who just have the knack to be great shooters or what is your take?

Chaz

Slamfire
May 6, 2010, 10:15 AM
I give my friend a chance to shoot, and he dispenses with the rear bag, just using the front rest for support. He proceeds to shoot 5 rounds into a one inch group. He didn't choose to shoot any more after that.

I am surprised to say the least. Beginner's luck? Too small of a sample? It sure made me wonder about all this effort we put into expensive match grade ammo. Are there some guys who just have the knack to be great shooters or what is your take?

To me, that shows that shooting a rifle, supported on a bench, held in place with bags, is not that difficult.

Try five shots under an inch prone with a sling. Or standing.

A friend of mine shot this ten shot group at 100 yards standing. He did this with an iron sighted AR in a 100 yard reduced Highpower match. This is a 99-7X group.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/Reducedstevereedstandingtarget99-7X.jpg

Jimro
May 6, 2010, 02:06 PM
Clearly the rifle shoots better than you do. But that is usually the case with most rifles and most shooters.

No need to be humiliated, just humble and realize that you can get better.

Jimro

zukiphile
May 6, 2010, 02:55 PM
Are there some guys who just have the knack to be great shooters or what is your take?


Yes.

I've asked really good rifle shooters for tips, and they invariably come back with very mundane points about breathing and support and other things I already do.

They are just better.

I read and practiced for years and still couldn't shoot a rifle as well as the fellow I used to shoot with weekly.

He was just better.

I enjoy shooting rifles, and accept that I have a below average talent for it. Don't let that diminish your enthusiasm.

Scorch
May 6, 2010, 03:23 PM
Years ago, a friend of mine kept asking me for tips on shooting because while he was not that bad, he had plateaued and could not improve. I worked with him on stance, breathing, sight control, trigger control, grip, follow-through, you name it, but he never got much better. I was just a better shooter than he was. But he was trying to improve, so more credit to him. So, accept that you are not a great shot, but that you can become a great shot through training and practice. It's nothing that can't be learned. Find a coach, join a club league, shoot or practice dry firing daily if you can, just intensify your practice.

James R. Burke
May 6, 2010, 03:34 PM
I know one guy who I shoot with just seems to be able to out shoot anyone. Does not matter what it is he is just good. Period. He is also very modest about it, and his ability. When we start shooting at the club we know he is going to be the top one every time. I studied it out some, and talked to him alot about it. I think alot his is eye sight. I noticed he can spot things real good or see things that I can't. He can tell you were your groups are going,and I can't even see them till I get down there. He is right all the time. I think it is eye sight, confidents in yourself, and being able to listen to people, and learn new things. He is also very steady. We shoot small bore pistol inside in the winter, and big bore pistol outside in the summer. Sometimes he wont even shoot just set stuff up for everyone. It puts him behind in points, but I know he is giving someone else a chance to take that no 1 spot. But like I said he is very modest, quiet, and listens really well. He is the kind of guy that will help any one out, but in a very casual way. I think that is cool being able to shoot that good, and not showing off.

Brian Pfleuger
May 6, 2010, 03:38 PM
There are absolutely natural born shooters. No question. Just like there are natural born race car drivers, pilots, physicists and farmers.

Of the natural born shooters category, I am not.

azredhawk44
May 6, 2010, 05:14 PM
Not a natural here, either.

But dryfire practice sure is cheap.

Rimfire practice ain't much more expensive.

It sure does make 20 to 50 rounds of good centerfire ammo feel like an investment to be worked up to and validated against, rather than rapid noise to be made.

Best I've done recently is a 5-shot single load prone set of 1.6 MOA. I'm typically about a 3-4 MOA shooter for sustained 10 shot strings. I'm working on getting myself down to a 2MOA consistent standard, and I make a little progress on each trip to the range.

Standing unsupported, no sling, on a calm day, I can keep about a 6-7 MOA group. Give me a strong gusting crosswind at the firing line that pushes irregularly at the barrel, though, and I'm lucky to keep 10 shots in 10 MOA.

Qtiphky
May 7, 2010, 06:43 AM
Different people have different skill sets and talents. I am lucky and can shoot rifles fairly well. Not bragging, but stating. However, throw a clay pigeon on a crossing and give me a scattergun and who knows what will happen. My buddy shoots these extremely well, but I will usually out shoot him with his rifle. It really torques him off, but he destroys me with the flying ones.

overland
May 7, 2010, 08:25 AM
Maybe your friend has done a lot of shooting and is just not letting on.

Longdayjake
May 7, 2010, 08:49 AM
One thing that has really really helped me with my long range accuracy has been hunting rockchucks and using a video camera. The plus to the video camera is I can see exactly what happens when I screw up. When I first went out this spring I was missing a lot more. Now, its rare that I miss a 200 yard shot on a chuck. In fact I would almost say that 200 yard shots are the norm and are very easy. I couldn't say that 2 months ago. Here are some videos of my rockchuck hunting just to give everyone something to look at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNIueypRKXY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFdf_4Sl5-k&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxqU-Am8IZc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvNs86iaf5I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7n-7QVLzxQ


This last one was the first time we went out in the season and you can see that I miss a lot more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpFcXbEXlm8&feature=related

Buzzcook
May 7, 2010, 03:39 PM
Take some lesson or get involved in competition. Your shooting will improve.
Getting better groups from a bench rest is a matter of finding what works for you best and practicing.

I had a friend who was in the special forces and was on one of the Army's pistol teams. I didn't have a gun that he couldn't shoot better.
I wasn't humbled because I knew I just wasn't in his class. It was fun because I was competing against the best and that's loads better than beating some average guy.

.284
May 7, 2010, 04:20 PM
Go to a public rifle range a week or two before deer season and you will see some amazing displays of non shooting. You will feel so much better about your abilities. I think that for the majority of hunters (not competition shooters) get so caught up in trying to cloverleaf a target when it's just not necessary. You stated that you are a casual shooter so you are supposed to be having fun, right? If you want to beat yourself up on a regular basis, take up golf.

2500ak
May 7, 2010, 05:53 PM
Yeah, I had that happen a while back. I was shooting one of my rifles when a friend of mine found my .40 cal Glock in the ammo bag.
He said "Can I?"
I said "Yeah, its a good gun but its not that accurate." He picks it up and hits a milk jug next to the one I was trying to hit with the rifle says "Seems perfectly accurate to me."

mdd
May 7, 2010, 07:43 PM
I guess I've never truly compared my shooting against anybody else. I keep notebooks for my rifles and record their performance when I kill paper. That way I can effectively compete against myself. If I do better or worse, I try to figure out why and increase or decrease respectively the actions affecting my accuracy. Doing better this time than last is what I find challenging.

TPAW
May 7, 2010, 09:08 PM
Are there some guys who just have the knack to be great shooters or what is your take?

Yes. I never fired a rifle until I was drafted into the army. In basic training I scored the highest in the battalion. A perfect score. In advanced infantry training the same thing. I think (among other things) that's what kept me alive in Vietnam. When I came home and was stationed in Ft. Eustis VA, I became a Military Policeman. Same thing there with the M-14, M-16 and .45 Cal.
In civilian life I worked for two different police departments, the New Port News PD in VA., and the NYPD. Same results in both departments with pistol and semi auto. I'm retired now, but still shoot. My 62 year old eyes still don't miss a beat. My son and daughter are the same way. I started them shooting when they were young. Maybe it's something genetic. Not trying to impress you, just stating fact. I'm too old to play the BS impress game. By the way, my father was the same way. Born in Brooklyn, NY, never fired a rifle until he was drafted during WWll. I guess he passed those genes to me?
Aside from having the basic shooting atributes, here is something I came across that was interesting, it was from some military site talking about marksmanship:

He has to be a very focused individual. When he shoots his mind has to be uncluttered from any thought except making the shot. The famous sniper Carlos Hathcock used the statement, “Getting in to my bubble.”