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View Full Version : Wishing for an M77/357


X Wolf
May 3, 2010, 04:25 PM
I enjoy the .357 Magnum caliber and really wish Ruger would offer the 77 carbine in this caliber just as they do with the 77/44. I already have a Marlin 1894C which I've had for a long time and it's nice but I much prefer bolt actions due to their reliability and potential accuracy. I think this would make another enjoyable and practical companion to my .357 revolvers. I can't help but think that I'm probably not alone in my thoughts on this concept. I wrote to Ruger last year about this and their answer was "Not at this time" I hope the "time" will arrive sooner rather than later.

bamaranger
May 4, 2010, 01:00 AM
Now that is outside the box thinking. I am not aware of any .357 bolt rifles (factory produced or otherwise) .

The timberwolf pumps, Marlin and Win levers, import levers.

You've got me thinking about a wild cat ctg based on the .44 mag case, in something like 44-.30, or .44-7mm. A 44-.357 would be possible w/o altering the bolt face, just a rechambered and correctly headspaced bbl., and the mags might not even need to be altered.

If the bolt face was altered, and new mags for the difference in case dimensions, a .357 on the 77/22 action would be possible I guess, but I'm not sure about demand.

I think a .357 is a dandy utility carbine, and the various levers suit the role perfectly. Still, you have a novel idea.

Norrick
May 4, 2010, 01:45 AM
i would like it much more if the magazine was internal.

thats where the lever actions have the most practicality, tube magazine that you can top off as needed.

but yeah a 77/357 would be sweet. What do you think about a 77/327? No rifles have been chambered in that caliber yet to my knowledge

.300 Weatherby Mag
May 4, 2010, 02:27 AM
Other than a .357 or .44 lever gun rifle holding more rounds, a 30-30 does everything better... Unless you cannot hunt with centerfire rifle rounds in your area, I really don't see the point...

X Wolf
May 4, 2010, 12:37 PM
Bamaranger:

Thanks so much for your comments. Just for fun, you might want to check out the .44 Bain & Davis which I believe is a .44 case necked down to .357.

300 Weatherby:

Thanks for your comments as well. I mentioned in my post that I was hoping for a bolt that uses the same cartridge as my revolvers. A 30-30 wouldn't address that issue although it is a fine hunting cartridge. I should mention that I don't hunt but love to shoot (I've been enjoying shooting for 53 years now, I started when I was 12) . I was thinking of this idea as a light, handy low recoiling general purpose carbine. Also, as the Ruger 77/44 has proven to be a good companion to the .44 Mag, I feel that a 77/357 might be useful as a practical companion to the hugely popular .357 revolver.

Thanks again.

Slopemeno
May 4, 2010, 02:29 PM
There were Ruger #1's made in .357 for a time, as I recall. I've also seen an article on a Remington 788 converted to shoot .38 Special as a short-range varmint gun, which was kind of a neat project.

Scorch
May 4, 2010, 04:58 PM
I don't know if Ruger would even consider it. The 357 Magnum has barely enough oomph to kill a whitetail out at 150 yds, I'm not too sure if anyone would pony up to pay the costs. When Ruger first intoruced the 77/44, they had a heck of a time selling them. Of course, once they stopped, everybody wanted one, but that's another story.

If you want a kick in the pants, get a 77/44 and rebarrel it for 357/44 Bains-Davis. 35 Remington performance out of a much shorter cartridge. Form it by running 44 Mag brass into the sizing die, load 'em up, and launch 180 grainers at 2,000 fps. I rebarreled a Marlin 1894 to 357/44 B-D, and it was way cool.

X Wolf
May 4, 2010, 05:20 PM
Scorch:

Thanks for the comments. As I mentioned above I don't hunt and I'm looking for the lower recoil of the .357 out of a rifle, but I have read that the 140 grain Hornady Flex Tip Leverevolution out of an 18.5" barrel does pretty well at longer ranges up to 150 yards as do the Buffalo Bore High Velocity loads. Yes, I am aware of the Bain & Davis .44 which is a very interesting cartridge but....

I'm interested in a 77/357 as a longer range companion to my .357 revolvers and I prefer bolts over levers. As to how well it would sell, it's just my guess that it might sell well enough for Ruger to offer it. There are a lot of .357 owners who might be interested.

Thanks again.

Abel
May 4, 2010, 06:51 PM
You already have the Marlin 1894C. Just buy a 44mag revolver and a ruger 77/44. Then you're set. Seems like a simple solution.

X Wolf
May 4, 2010, 10:15 PM
Abel:

Thank you for the suggestion, however I'm basically only interested in hopefully a bolt action .357 Magnum and yes, I've owned .44 Magnums before and they are not my cup of tea.

Thanks again.

Abel
May 5, 2010, 07:15 AM
Hey, it never hurts to dream I guess.

salvadore
May 6, 2010, 10:52 PM
I killed a muley at a 120 paces with a 4" model 66 S&W, I don't know why a 150-170 grain cast at 1600fps+ wouldn't kill any deer.

I was thinkin the same thing X, but was considering the TC with a 16-20" barrel. Short and sweet with good potential for accuracy.

sc928porsche
May 8, 2010, 12:20 PM
The 44 BD cartridge is a smoker.

X Wolf
May 14, 2010, 03:16 PM
Assuming Ruger doesn't come out with a 77/357, does anyone know of any other .357 magnum rifles excluding levers & pumps? Also, I know it's a long shot but, is there a bolt action that could be practically converted to shoot .357 reliably? By the way, thanks for all the great comments.

Crosshair
May 14, 2010, 07:13 PM
Assuming Ruger doesn't come out with a 77/357, does anyone know of any other .357 magnum rifles excluding levers & pumps? Also, I know it's a long shot but, is there a bolt action that could be practically converted to shoot .357 reliably? By the way, thanks for all the great comments.
Not with .357, but you cold convert a .223 action to shoot 9mm. Getting it to feed from a mag could be a PITA unless you get one that has controlled feed.

A 44-.357 would be possible w/o altering the bolt face, just a rechambered and correctly headspaced bbl., and the mags might not even need to be altered.
As was mentioned, such a thing has already been created, the 357/44 Bain & Davis. It would work just fine in the 77/44.

http://www.stevespages.com/jpg/cd35744baindavis.jpg

Other than a .357 or .44 lever gun rifle holding more rounds, a 30-30 does everything better... Unless you cannot hunt with centerfire rifle rounds in your area, I really don't see the point...

Two words: Integral Suppressor. A 240 grain slug at subsonic velocity is SOOOOOO much fun to shoot.:cool: Can't have an Integral on a tube fed gun.

http://gra.midco.net/5937/GunPhotos/7744/7744SDSmall.jpg
Yes this is mine.

When Ruger first intoruced the 77/44, they had a heck of a time selling them. Of course, once they stopped, everybody wanted one, but that's another story.
See above. Once NFA manufacturers started suppressing them demand started to pick up. It's the perfect host for a suppressor. Brass and bullets are readily available. I can use cheaply cast lead bullets in mine as it is a take apart design.

X Wolf
May 14, 2010, 08:14 PM
Crosshair:

Thank you for the great response and suggestions, however as I mentioned earlier:

Yes, I am aware of the .357/44 Bain & Davis, however in this particular case I am only interested in the use of factory .357 Magnum in a bolt action. Also, to recap, I neither hunt nor reload. I was just looking for a nice compact .357 companion to my .357 revolvers. I realize that at this point it is not available, I just thought it might be an interesting idea and I appreciate everyone's input.

Thanks again.

Crosshair
May 15, 2010, 09:03 AM
Yup. I see no reason why Ruger couldn't make the 77/44 in .357 mag.It wouldn't take that much R&D to pull it off.

rc
May 15, 2010, 01:52 PM
They should make a family of these in 44mag, .357 mag and .327 mag. My marlin in .32 mag is nice but it jams sometimes and you have a tough time single loading it. A bolt gun with rotary mag would fix both problems. rc

Head-Space
May 15, 2010, 04:28 PM
44 Mag. beats 30-30 in a lever gun in heavy cover. Heavier bullet, bigger hole.

OK, so what are we going to use a bolt action .357 Mag. for? I can't imagine any applications where a lever gun or pump wouldn't be handier.

Abel
May 15, 2010, 04:49 PM
OK, so what are we going to use a bolt action .357 Mag. for? I can't imagine any applications where a lever gun or pump wouldn't be handier.

Pure whimsy. Its not good for anything.

publius
May 15, 2010, 07:28 PM
Crosshair is thinking the same way as me, .44 bolt integrally suppressed w/night scope= dead coyotes and pigs.

Crosshair
May 15, 2010, 09:43 PM
OK, so what are we going to use a bolt action .357 Mag. for? I can't imagine any applications where a lever gun or pump wouldn't be handier.
Tube guns are far more fussy about OAL and bullet shape than a mag fed bolt gun. My 77/44 will feed dammed near anything that fits in the magazine. It is also a lot easier to single load rounds that are too long to feed from the magazine.

Working the action from a prone position is also much easier with a bolt gun. I've also found tube fed lever guns a bit wonky as far as balance goes. Continually changing as you cycle rounds through the gun. Same reason I don't like, and am not good at, shooting clays with a tube fed shotgun. This is just me though.

I also wonder how quiet a .357 mag would be with a suppressor the same size as my 77/44? The 77/44 is about as quiet as you can get, but perhaps you could get equal suppression in a smaller package . Hornady's LeveRevolution bullets also give you a much better BC.

It's also much cheaper for people who don't reload. 357 is a lot cheaper than 44.

2DaMtns
May 15, 2010, 11:01 PM
How much more accuracy would you see out of a bolt 357 over a lever? I mean, the distance you're going to be shooting isn't THAT far, and BC of the bullets isn't high enough for me to think it's going to make a HUGE difference. Maybe with the Hornady flex tips, but I'm not sold you would see a huge gain.

Distortion
May 18, 2010, 09:39 PM
The Armalon PC (http://www.armalon.com/public/products/item/2/) is a bolt action rifle that looks like a SMLE and can be chambered in 357 Magnum.

X Wolf
May 19, 2010, 12:59 PM
Distortion:

Thank you for the response. Those look interesting and I vaguely remember reading about that concept based on the old Enfield design some time ago, however it doesn't look like they have a U.S. distributor. I do seem to remember from what I read that they were on the heavy side and somewhat expensive.

Thanks again.

.300 Weatherby Mag
May 19, 2010, 01:04 PM
Why don't you just get an T/C Encore with a .357 barrel and call it a day....

briandg
May 19, 2010, 01:13 PM
I for one understand and love the idea.

My remington tube magazine bolt rifle in .22 lr feeds all lengths. All of my life, I've wished I had a nice easy going shooter like a .38/357 bolt, JUST LIKE IT. A person gets bored shooting .22, and frankly, I don't want to go with a high powered bottle neck every time, either. a .38 in a rifle smacking steel plates at 100 yards would be a nice change.


I guess a lot of people find it kind of hard to understand. I'd equate it to how some people feel about owning one of the SKS type rifles. I'd rather kiss a dead hyena than own or shoot one of them, I am a classic firearms enthusiast.

briandg
May 19, 2010, 01:15 PM
on the other hand, I do own a .357 lever and love it. It's a poor substitute for what I wanted, but it gives me the chance to shoot .38 at 6 cents a round out of a rifle at 75 yards.

SIGSHR
May 19, 2010, 01:20 PM
I like the idea. Almost sounds like a Cold Winter Night project. I have one of the Spanish Destroyer carbines, it has a nice feel to it.

Crosshair
May 19, 2010, 01:49 PM
Distortion Dang, I wonder what it would take to import one of those.

Why don't you just get an T/C Encore with a .357 barrel and call it a day....
Not everyone wants a single shot.

Distortion
May 19, 2010, 11:32 PM
Sorry guys, but I hadn't logged in for a while. The Armalon PC was the only bolt-action 357Magnum I had ever heard of, and I posted the link in case someone else had heard of it, or seen one.