win 190 headspace

[joshawa91]

hi, i was shooting last sunday and only got 20rnds before it stopped and started clicking( like a dry fire or misfire). any thoughts. i have a photo of the headspace. i went online and found they have a tendency to do this. thinking about trading it for a cooey model 39 single-shot bolt action.

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/trap91/newcam009.jpg

[kraigwy]

Head space is the relationship between the bolt face and the chamber.

Unless I'm missing something I dont see how the stock seperating from the action is related to headspace.

Just from the pictures, that looks like an easy fix.

[joshawa91]

its not the stock i'm talking about. its the spacing from the reviever face to the end of threads.

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/trap91/newcam009-1.jpg

if it's not headspace, what could it be? firning pin is fine i believe, but will check. the circled area was never this far out.

[Goatwhiskers]

You need to disassemble the rifle. It appears that the barrel has come partly unscrewed from the receiver. It is possible tho not likely that the receiver threads may have become stripped as the receiver is aluminum if I remember correctly. You will probably be able to tighten the barrel collar and solve your problem. Here endeth the lesson. Goatwhiskers the Elder

[brickeyee]

Compare some of the fired brass to a new round.

That much shift should be easily seen if the actual headspace has been affected.

It sounds more like the action was not closed completely if the barrel is unscrewed.

Was there any mark on the primers when the gun stop firing?

[joshawa91]

brick, yes there were, a tiny little indentation. but not enouh to set it off. i was using my ammo and a friends to make sure it wasnt just missfires.
here are some pics. not the best but i circled the little indents.

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/trap91/newcam058-2.jpg

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/trap91/newcam056-2.jpg

[brickeyee]

Blow-back operated guns do not actually lock the breech.

They rely on the mass of the breech block to delay cycling till pressures have fallen to a safe level.

Depending on what in the action stops the breech blocks forward movement a partially unscrewed barrel would result in light strikes.

The firing pin does not protrude much on a rimfire, so all it is doing is pushing the shell further into the chamber and when the shell stops the pin does not have enough momentum left to ignite the primer.

[joshawa91]

thats what i was thinking. i just thought it was called headspace. quess not. thanks. hopefully get the cooey monday.

[brickeyee]

The headspace in a blow-back .22 rim-fire is the distance from the breech block face to the forward rim cutout in the barrel.

Like any other rimmed round, the .22 rim-fire case stops its forward movement on the rim cutout in the barrel.

Spring pressure normally holds the breech block in contact with the head of the case, but the spring does not play any real part in the blow-back portion of the cycle.

The spring is at maximum extension at that point and does not provide enough force to slow things down once the cartridge fires (and if it did you would not be able to pull the block back to chamber a round).

[James K]

Hey, guys, I know all the theory on headspace and that gun really has excess headspace and lots of it. The barrel collar has apparently been turned out or has stripped the receiver threads so that the barrel has moved forward taking the foreend with it.

With the barrel way out, the bolt is not able to reach it to chamber the round or fire, which is good because if the round had gone off it could have burst and possibly ruined the receiver completely.

To get at the barrel collar, you will have to take off the forend and take off the barrel collar cover. Then you can probably see what happened and correct it if possible.

Jim

[Ifishsum]

Wow - I have one of these 190 rifles as well - it has the same gap as yours in the picture and the same problem with light strikes. It started this problem kind of suddenly, I even tried a different bolt and can't fix the problem. I can't even figure out how to get the forend off, and the sights are still top center so the barrel hasn't turned out or anything. Is there another piece that could be turning out of the receiver independent of the barrel?

[Goatwhiskers]

Ifishsum, you and Joshawa have the same problem, the barrel collar has for some reason backed off and let the barrel move forward. Been while but IIRC you remove the mag tube to get the forend off. Technically you use a spanner to tighten/loosen the barrel collar, but you can use a hammer and punch if done carefully. This will solve your problem. Excess headspace indeed! Here endeth the lesson. Goatwhiskers the Elder

[joshawa91]

Thanks goatwiskers and the rest of you guys. i will most likely be trading it in for a cooey model 39 single shot. nice little gun for the age.

[Ifishsum]

Thanks Goatwhiskers, I'll take another look at it.

Edit: Took about 5 minutes and worked like a charm! The barrel collar went in over 1/2 turn, the gap is almost gone and it makes a good firing pin indent now.

And thanks Joshawa for posting this thread and making me take another look at mine!

[James K]

Hi, Goatwhiskers,

Well, it did have excess headspace! Like I said, a lot of it.

Jim

[joshawa91]

no problem ifishsum. i traded it in for a coey, here is the link to the thread it's in.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4045687