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45Gunner
April 12, 2010, 06:56 PM
Back in the days when I was an active Flight Instructor, I always told my students about the three most useless things in aviation, which were:

1. The altitude above you.

2. The runway behind you.

3. The fuel you left in the tanker truck.


These days I pass my time as a Pistol Instructor at a club I am a member of and have begun a list of the most useless things for self defense hand guns. I have put three things down and thought you guys could lend a hand and tell me what you feel are useless but could be important items so I can pass it on to my students. Make 'em clever and meaningful. Thanks.

The three most useless things in defensive arms:

1. The ammo you left at home.

2. The empty chamber.

3. The back up gun you decided not to carry.

DRice.72
April 12, 2010, 07:00 PM
I never thought.....

my gun would jam.
it would happen in this neighborhood.
there would be three of them.

WhyteP38
April 12, 2010, 07:08 PM
How about:

The scratch I accidentally put on the frame last night. (This one might be important in terms of resale value.)

The serial numbers that aren't lined up perfectly. (This one doesn't seem to be important in any way, but people still get vexed enough for it to seem important.)

Can't think of a third one right now.

sakeneko
April 12, 2010, 07:13 PM
The three most useless things in defensive arms:

1. The ammo you left at home.

2. The empty chamber.

3. The back up gun you decided not to carry.

4. The training that you were going to get realsoonnow, when you could afford the time and the money. (wry grin)

WhyteP38
April 12, 2010, 07:23 PM
4. The training that you were going to get realsoonnow, when you could afford the time and the money. (wry grin) LOL!

On a similar note:

The training I got from my friend who said he was just as good as a real instructor because he owns a gun and at one point almost joined the Army.

FM12
April 12, 2010, 07:45 PM
1. The pistol I almost carried, but didn't think I'd need it.

2. Not teaching my spouse important stuff.

3. Not taking extra ammo for the pistol I didn't not take.

4. Figuring a 10 minute trip out of the house wouldnt turn into something deadly.

treg
April 12, 2010, 10:17 PM
- The guy at the gunshop said ______________ .

- Not owning a .22 to practice with.

- A gun bought soley on power factor.

- "Practice" based only on standing in front of a bullseye and firing at it.

jrothWA
April 13, 2010, 12:56 AM
buying trinkets & gadgets, instead of using the money for PRACTICING.

not reloading ammo to duplicate your carry ammo.

hoarding you carry ammo because of cost.

Not trying to hit beyond _ feet.

no weak-hand shooting or reloading.

Looking down at firearm to reload, instead of on the target.

claymore1500
April 13, 2010, 04:38 AM
Your cell phone.

911.

The cop who is only 5 minutes away.

B. Lahey
April 13, 2010, 04:51 AM
1. Macho chest-thumping.

2. So much random junk in your pockets you can't find the useful stuff quickly / would sink like a stone if you fell into water.

3. Cheese.

CCGS
April 13, 2010, 05:05 AM
I never thought.....

my gun would jam.
it would happen in this neighborhood.
there would be three of them.

+1 :eek:

misnomerga
April 13, 2010, 07:12 AM
- Why should I practice clearing a jam (FTE, FTF), my semi has never jammed before

- Seven rounds is surely enough who needs a backup magazine

- That place is perfectly safe, it can't happen to me so why bother bring it

- The flashlight that won't "flash" cause the batteries died, but they were last checked a year ago.

- The piece of furniture you ran into (giving the BG a great sound locator on your position) cause you didn't practice and don't know your way around your own house (and you don't have a working flashlight!)

Skans
April 13, 2010, 07:30 AM
From a practical standpoint - things I consider useless in self defense:

1. Extra magazines - just not necessary in a truly defensive situation - HD gun holds 20 rounds; carry pistol holds 6.

2. Target sights

3. Lasers

4. Trigger job

5. Safeties

6. Ergonomics

7. Any round more powerful than .357 in a revolver and 10mm in a semi-auto.

Brian Pfleuger
April 13, 2010, 08:42 AM
I agree with Skans.... except the laser. I think that a laser can be a valuable asset. Maybe not often, but a lot more often than a spare mag or BUG.

spacecoast
April 13, 2010, 09:00 AM
How about -


the ability to part a gnat's hair at 50 yds
whether your slide is stainless or blued
whether your brass is yellow or nickel plated

Glenn E. Meyer
April 13, 2010, 10:01 AM
Hey, I like cheese! I get more use out of a nice piece of cheese as compared to my box o' holsters.

The most useless thing - you - if you stand there with your mouth open - going DUUUUHHH!

Dwight55
April 13, 2010, 10:57 AM
1. Yesterday's targets

2. Brass left on the ground at the range

3. Playing computer games when you could be out shooting

May God bless,
Dwight

elwaynum1
April 13, 2010, 11:11 AM
1. Yesterday's targets

2. Brass left on the ground at the range

3. Playing computer games when you could be out shooting

May God bless,
Dwight

But....I like computer games.. :rolleyes:

ZeSpectre
April 13, 2010, 11:18 AM
The most useless thing in self-defense.... the thought "I don't want to get hurt".

By the time you are in an SD situation you just need to have the mindset that "hey, I'm probably going to get hurt in some fashion" and bull on through that.

Skans
April 13, 2010, 03:46 PM
whether your slide is stainless or blued
If you are carrying your handgun routinely, a stainless slide won't seem so useless, but a blued one will seem like a real PITA.

whether your brass is yellow or nickel plated
I find that nickel plated defensive loads don't tarnish, and therefore are "slicker" and tend to have less problem feeding and ejecting. Older brass loses it's polish and can feel somewhat rough to the touch - could be a factor in some jams.........could be....

B. Lahey
April 13, 2010, 04:01 PM
Hey, I like cheese! I get more use out of a nice piece of cheese as compared to my box o' holsters.


I like it too, but is cheese useful in self-defense? I guess it would make a better club than leafy vegetables...:D

What cheese would be most suitable for self-defense?

katana8869
April 13, 2010, 05:04 PM
I like it too, but is cheese useful in self-defense? I guess it would make a better club than leafy vegetables...

Stick the barrel of a .22 through one of the holes in a big 'ol chunk of Swiss... it might make a great improvised suppressor :D

Eskimo
April 13, 2010, 05:49 PM
This is what makes gun owners look bad.. Some of you are so paranoid that I feel uneasy knowing that you own a gun.

I'm sorry, but there are very few places in this world bad enough.. where you should verbally discipline yourself for not bringing a big enough gun, leaving extra ammo at home, or not practicing "running around your house".

old bear
April 13, 2010, 05:59 PM
1-Thinking there is such a thing as a fair fight.

2-Thinking I can shoot him/her in the arm or leg and that will stop this.

3-Thinking I can talk my way out of this.

ZeSpectre
April 13, 2010, 08:15 PM
I agree with Skans.... except the laser. I think that a laser can be a valuable asset. Maybe not often, but a lot more often than a spare mag or BUG.
Pizzakilla - +5 on that. Anyone who thinks lasers are useless doesn't understand the concept and needs to order Crimson Trace's free DVD (http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/FreeDVDOffer/tabid/316/Default.aspx). It's a real eye opener for laser use in self-defense situations.


This is what makes gun owners look bad.. Some of you are so paranoid that I feel uneasy knowing that you own a gun.

I'm sorry, but there are very few places in this world bad enough.. where you should verbally discipline yourself for not bringing a big enough gun, leaving extra ammo at home, or not practicing "running around your house".

Eskimo - Seriously? That sounds a lot like someone who has never been on "the sharp end of the stick". Plenty of folks here HAVE been there. That is a fact not paranoia and once you've been there, you never want to find yourself unprepared again. Of course if you would like to provide us with a detailed map of the "bad places" I'm sure many of us (myself included) would be more than happy to buy a copy so that we could avoid them and then we wouldn't have to be concerned about self defense any more.

Just curious...when's the last time you did a fire drill in your house? Does doing a fire drill mean that you are paranoid about your house burning down? Does NOT doing the occasional fire drill mean you are in denial about the possibility of fire?

orionengnr
April 13, 2010, 08:45 PM
What cheese would be most suitable for self-defense?
Limburger..but you will have to give it a few hours to...ummm...age in your bowels.
And then you must be able to ummm...deploy at will :)

GLK
April 14, 2010, 01:18 AM
This is what makes gun owners look bad.

What does that even mean?

Some of you are so paranoid that I feel uneasy knowing that you own a gun.

I feel uneasy knowing that there are people that think they can diagnose mental disorders from mere post on a BB..

I'm sorry, but there are very few places in this world bad enough.. where you should verbally discipline yourself for not bringing a big enough gun, leaving extra ammo at home, or not practicing "running around your house".

What you see as paranoia myself and many others see as being prepared.

but there are very few places in this world bad enough

I don't know how much you travel or where you travel. But the victims of murder assault rape and robbery would most likely differ with your opinion on arms ammo and physical and mental preparedness. Personally I find that being armed well trained and very proficient has actually made me less paranoid yet much more observant prepared and aware of situations that are or may turn bad and the intelligence to get me and mine somewhere else ASAP.

Here is a short list of incidents just in this country that evidently are bad enough to worry about the issues you claim are nothing to worry about. These all occurred after the massacre in that "not bad enough" place Columbine High School.

Atlanta, GA July 1999: A stockmarket day trader goes on a day-long shooting rampage, killing 12 people including his wife and two children before taking his own life.


Fort Worth, TX September 1999: A gunman opens fire at a prayer service, killing six people then himself.

Washington, D.C. October 2002: A series of sniper-style shootings, some carried out from the boot of a car, claims 10 lives, mostly in the Washington, D.C. area. A semi-automatic assault rifle was used.

Chicago, IL August 2003: A laid-off worker shoots and kills six former co-workers. Semi-automatic pistol was used. The shooter had a long criminal record, which included weapons offences.

Birchwood, WI November 2004: A hunter opens fire with an assault rifle, killing six hunters and wounding two.

Brookfield, WI March 2005: A man fires 22 rounds during a church service, killing seven people.

Nickel Mines, PA October 2006: A truck driver armed with two rifles, a semi-automatic handgun and 600 rounds of ammunition, kills five schoolgirls execution-style in an Amish schoolhouse, and seriously wounds six others before shooting himself.

Blacksburg, VA April 2007: A student shoots 47 people at Virginia Tech, killing 32 before he commits suicide, in the deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Omaha, NE December 2007: Nine people are killed and five others injured after a 20-year-old shooter armed with a military-style assault rifle attacks shoppers in a mall.

Carnation, WA December 2007: A woman and her boyfriend shoot and kill six members of her family, including two children, ages three and six, on Christmas Eve, using large-caliber pistols.

Chicago, IL February 2008: Six women are restrained and shot at a suburban clothing store. Five women die. Gunman gets away.

DeKalb, IL February 2008: Five students are killed and 16 wounded when a gunman opens fire at a Northern Illinois University lecture hall before turning gun on himself.

Alger, WA September 2008: A mentally ill man, who had been released from jail a month earlier, shoots eight people, killing six.

Covina, CA December 2008: A man dressed as Santa Claus opens fire at a family Christmas party in his ex-wife’s home and then sets fire to the house. Nine people are killed in the home. The gunman later kills himself.

Geneva County and Coffee County, AL March 2009: In a shooting spree that tears through several towns, a 28-year-old out-of-work man kills 10 people, including his mother and a toddler.

Others can choose to be sheep as that is their right, I prefer to be a sheep dog as that is my right.

Eskimo
April 14, 2010, 06:19 AM
Eskimo - Seriously? That sounds a lot like someone who has never been on "the sharp end of the stick". Plenty of folks here HAVE been there. That is a fact not paranoia and once you've been there, you never want to find yourself unprepared again. Of course if you would like to provide us with a detailed map of the "bad places" I'm sure many of us (myself included) would be more than happy to buy a copy so that we could avoid them and then we wouldn't have to be concerned about self defense any more.

Just curious...when's the last time you did a fire drill in your house? Does doing a fire drill mean that you are paranoid about your house burning down? Does NOT doing the occasional fire drill mean you are in denial about the possibility of fire?

Seems to me that person should be working at getting over the unreasonable paranoia that came from the attack. And.. of course not! A family having a fire drill in the house is completely out of the ordinary. One thing I really dislike is excessive safety.

Life is too short to constantly worry about all these things. By the time you're prepared for everything that life can throw at you, you're dead by natural causes!

SilentHitz
April 14, 2010, 06:39 AM
1- Hesitation
2- worrying about what a jury will think, instead of staying alive
3-spending more on mall ninja stuff for all your rails, than on ammo to shoot.A family having a fire drill in the house is completely out of the ordinary. One thing I really dislike is excessive safety.

Life is too short to constantly worry about all these things. Life may really be short if your family can't get out of a burning house, because you think a fire drill is out of the ordinary.:rolleyes: That's been basic common sense, since I was a kid...decades ago.

Eskimo
April 14, 2010, 07:30 AM
Life may really be short if your family can't get out of a burning house, because you think a fire drill is out of the ordinary. That's been basic common sense, since I was a kid...decades ago.

Could you explain why a fire drill is needed if your house is built to code?

Skans
April 14, 2010, 07:34 AM
Pizzakilla - +5 on that. Anyone who thinks lasers are useless doesn't understand the concept and needs to order Crimson Trace's free DVD. It's a real eye opener for laser use in self-defense situations.

I can see where some folks might find a laser useful for home defense. But for outside the home for self defense, I just don't see how on earth a laser is helpful at all.

Fictional Example - I'm getting money out of an ATM machine at 9:00 pm and see a guy quickly approach me after he was lurking behind some bushes - I'll be lucky to just get my gun out quick enough to make it useful.

Fictional Example - I'm walking to my car at 9:30 pm in a Walmart parking lot and see a suspicious vehicle following me. The vehicle blocks my car and two guys jump out and are now within 15 feet of me. And, I need a laser for what????

Fictional Example - It's 10:00 pm and my car is overheating, so I pull off in the emergency lane along I-675. A tricked-out ricer with black windows and a big fat chrome exaust pulls in front of my parked car while I'm looking under the hood. One guy quietly approaches me while the other stays in the running car - Do I use that laser to burn their eyes out??? [something similar happened a week ago, but my car was fine, and it was a cop checking to make sure I was ok]

Real Life Example: I have been in a situation similar to these, but was unarmed with the exception of a large sharp screwdriver. My car popped a radiator hose in a parking lot at 11:00 at night. I was working on putting a new hose on (long story how I got the hose), when I saw a man quickly and quietly approaching me from behind, coming from across the parking lot. I waited until he was right behind me before I gave a hint that I saw him, then I lunged at him with the screwdriver saying something like "if you don't turn around and leave imediately, I'm going to gut you like a pig"...but just not in such nice words as that. The guy fortunately left, I fixed the car and got out of there. Now, if that screwdriver was a gun with a laser on it, what exactly would that laser have done for me?

ZeSpectre
April 14, 2010, 07:52 AM
Skans,

I think you need to see that video.

(EDIT: Just found that it's also available "by chapter" online here... http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Videos/tabid/396/Default.aspx )

I'm starting a new thread here (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4029942#post4029942) so I can stop hijacking this one.

SilentHitz
April 14, 2010, 09:22 AM
Could you explain why a fire drill is needed if your house is built to code? Be glad to, same reason they're needed in schools and other buildings that are built to code. To make sure everyone knows where all possible exits are, depending on where in that building the fire is at, and where to meet to make a head count...make sure nobody is left inside.

This is more important in the home, as a lot of fires happen at night or the wee hours of the morning. Everyone is not fully awake, even as they are trying to get out of a home full of smoke and flames. If they have had a couple of fire drills, it improves their chances of getting everyone out, and to a predetermined spot for a head count. It's not paranoia...it's just a little planning to make sure you don't leave one of your kids inside a burning house.

You don't have to do a drill every freakin' month, just once or twice will be enough to let everyone know what to do.:)

Homes and other buildings built to code burn to the ground every day...fire resistant does not mean that a fire won't burn up everything in it, including your loved ones.

sakeneko
April 14, 2010, 02:27 PM
I second the use of ripe (or better yet, overripe) Limburger cheese in self defense. I bet it would work better than pepper spray against many attackers. <wrinkling nose> ;-)

Brandy
April 14, 2010, 03:04 PM
Open carry
Not having a laser sight
Not having a dog

mapsjanhere
April 14, 2010, 04:32 PM
GLK while some of your shootings might have benefited from an armed citizen response, I wonder how you'll defend against the DC sniper with a concealed weapon, or if you carry a cw to church (ok, maybe I shouldn't ask the last one on this board :D ).

Eskimo
April 14, 2010, 04:59 PM
When I brought up code I was talking about the amount of exits required. One in every room at the very least. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know how to get out.

If I had an upstairs I would have a safety ladder and make sure the kids knew.. but I think a drill is a little excessive.

There are so many things that COULD go wrong. If we prepared for all of them (or even half of them), enjoying life would become pretty difficult.

SilentHitz
April 14, 2010, 05:50 PM
I agree there, we had a total of 2 drills the 18 years I lived at home, one was for my brother who came along 10 years later...no need to be a fanatic about it, just so you have everyone meeting in one place. My plan at 8 was to go out the window and into my treehouse in the back yard LOL, until Dad explained that could cause someone to run into a burning building to rescue someone who wasn't even in there.

Basic drills harm nobody, and can save lives.

Wagonman
April 14, 2010, 07:00 PM
There are so many things that COULD go wrong. If we prepared for all of them (or even half of them), enjoying life would become pretty difficult

No one is advocating being a paranoid nutjob. But, being reasonably prepared is your duty as an adult. carrying a reload for a CCW is reasonable. I think you are being overly confrontational.

ActivShootr
April 14, 2010, 07:45 PM
carrying a reload for a CCW is reasonable.

I agree. Especially with a semi-auto. Alot of problems can be fixed with a fresh magazine.

Eskimo
April 14, 2010, 08:03 PM
Never said carrying a reload was unreasonable. The point was that people were acting like was a terrible mistake not to.

MakBobarov
April 14, 2010, 08:52 PM
They aren't saying it is the worst thing ever but there is always the chance that you need another magazine. BG is farther away than you have been practicing, behind cover, your nerves are shot, you got hit by enemy fire, you accidentally hit your magazine release and it is more time-saving to load your secondary magazine. Any of those could be reasons why you NEED more ammo and it takes very little effort to remember to pick that extra magazine up from wherever you store your gun when you holster your CCW.

Tangentabacus
April 15, 2010, 08:05 AM
1. Your "switchblade" Audi key
2. Karate (although, anything is better than nothing)
3. Flip flops/Sandals

In reality, if it can't be used while at the same time running away or retreating then it's just going to get in the way of you defending yourself. You gotta always be aware, and understand that sometimes the best way to save yourself and others is to move out of the way of danger.

I have never been in a situation where a firearm would have done me any better than to make the other dude panic. I really haven't had the time or the insight to be enough prepared during a possibly dangerous situation to actually use a gun.

To kind of make sense of that jumbled mess... I recently was charged by a grizzly. Thankfully my bull mastif made the grizzly distracted enough for me to get across a river. Either way... About ten minutes after the incident (while I was changing my underwear), I had realized about the AK-47 I had on my back. My first instinct was to get the hell out of there! In retrospect, I could have probably fended the bear off with a full magazine, but in that really tight situation I was obviously unable enough to think to do anything else besides run... And soil my underwear.

If you insist on carrying a gun... Keep your cool and train a whole lot more than I did.

I want to take some self defense classes.

Puntmefar
April 15, 2010, 09:33 PM
id have to say most usless things are

1 the cool saying you plan to say if you ever have to pull your gun

2 the weapon you had tucked in a bad hard to reach place when you really need it

3 the hope you have that a officer would get there in time to save your life when your not prepaired........ no offence to any officer out there i belive law enforcement does a fine job but i also realize officers can not be every place at one time and it takes time to respond to a call i thank you for your service.

(BH)
April 15, 2010, 10:14 PM
Your cell phone.

911.

The cop who is only 5 minutes away.

Wrong. The cell phone is a very valuable tool in the event of an SD shooting. If for nothing else, a 911 recording could be the difference between a murder charge and freedom.

It would definitely be worthless if you expected to call 911 and have cop there before a BG maims you. However it definitely has it's place in SD. If possible, you'd better believe I'll be holding the phone in one hand and 911 in the other.

leadcounsel
April 15, 2010, 11:36 PM
1. It works in the movies/TV

2. It'll never happen to me/I'm not paranoid and don't need a gun

3. I don't need to practice, I have X (insert magic gun or caliber) so that should be enough

kodiakbeer
April 16, 2010, 03:52 PM
Treg: - Not owning a .22 to practice with.

We have a winner! If you don't have a .22 (preferably one that mimics your carry gun), then you don't shoot enough. If you don't shoot enough, then you aren't as ready as you can be when you actually need to defend yourself.

If you have a .22, you can shoot 500 rounds on any given afternoon for under $20. Is there anyone here who shoots 500 rounds of 9/40/45 in a practice session?

igor
April 16, 2010, 04:04 PM
1. ego
2. pride
3. honor

45Gunner
April 16, 2010, 04:10 PM
If you have a .22, you can shoot 500 rounds on any given afternoon for under $20. Is there anyone here who shoots 500 rounds of 9/40/45 in a practice session?

I am a 1911 fanatic and bought a Chiappa .22, a gun that looks like a 1911. I shoot a couple of hundred rounds from it and then have to get my .45 fix. I have to shoot a .45 each time I go to the range. I shoot not less than 2000 rounds of .45ACP per month. So....to answer your question, Yes. It's not cheap but I do try to buy my ammo in 1000 round bulk lots, which reduces the overall costs.

The .22, while inexpensive to shoot, is only good for target practice or to teach shooting to a student. If one wants to maintain a self defensive proficiency, that is getting on target and staying on target with multiple round bursts, one must train with the gun that he/she intends upon utilizing.

kodiakbeer
April 16, 2010, 04:53 PM
I am a 1911 fanatic and bought a Chiappa .22, a gun that looks like a 1911. I shoot a couple of hundred rounds from it and then have to get my .45 fix. I have to shoot a .45 each time I go to the range.

Absolutely! I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't also put lots of rounds downrange in your carry gun, just that a .22 gives you the option to do a lot more shooting for a lot less money.

The .22, while inexpensive to shoot, is only good for target practice or to teach shooting to a student.

On that, we'll have to disagree! My hat is off to you for shooting 2000 rounds a month in .45, but I can't afford that and most that can, probably wouldn't. I have a Ciener conversion that I shoot for practice. I'll put 200 to 300 rounds out at my little steel plate spinner, then shoot some .45. I'm no competition shooter, but all that practice and repetition makes me absolutely comfortable with my .45. I have no doubt that if the SHTF, I can perform just on habit and muscle memory alone, no matter how much my knees are knocking.

claymore1500
April 16, 2010, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Your cell phone.

911.

The cop who is only 5 minutes away.

Wrong. The cell phone is a very valuable tool in the event of an SD shooting. If for nothing else, a 911 recording could be the difference between a murder charge and freedom.


Ok, I won't argue with your logic, in certain cases, ie: Home invasion or bump in the night situations merit cell phone use, But in the event of a mugging, the cell phone would be the second item I would deploy, and the shooting would most likely be over before the recording started.

Gbro
April 16, 2010, 08:10 PM
The empty chamber.
If you are shooting a revolver then I would agree.
Otherwise if you are aware of your ammo count and know, as in only you know you are empty there is still some, some benefit.
I say this in the everyday tv versions of running dry and giving away your situation.
Time to practice that Poker Face;).

N.H. Yankee
April 17, 2010, 06:26 AM
Nunchuck's, especially when you don't know how to use them and any other form of martial arts.

pepper spray when your upwind of the spray.

A whistle in a remote area.

TheNatureBoy
April 17, 2010, 06:38 AM
Your local police department.

Jay1958
April 17, 2010, 10:22 PM
Never said carrying a reload was unreasonable. The point was that people were acting like was a terrible mistake not to.

It isn't a terrible mistake not to. Unless you lose your life, or the life of a loved one, because of it.

I will admit that there was a time not too long ago that I didn't usually carry an extra mag. Then I participated in an IDPA match where I had a factory magazine literally fall apart! The base plate of the magazine fell off, and the remaining rounds dropped straight down onto the ground. Turns out, the lips on the bottom of the magazine were defective, and were not long enough to hold the base plate in place, permanently.

Ever since that experience, I have made more of a point of carrying an extra mag.

Regarding your questioning the usefulness of fire drills - it's too bad you can't ask one of the more than 3,000 people that die from fire in the United States each year.

"U.S. fires in calendar year 2008 resulted in 3,320 civilian fire fatalities and 16,705 civilian fire injuries. There was a civilian fire death every 158 minutes (on average) and a civilian fire injury every 31 minutes in 2008. Home fires caused 2,755, or 83%, of the civilian fire deaths."

source: National Fire Protection Association, Fire Analysis and Research Division, "FIRE LOSS IN THE UNITED STATES 2008"

IZZY
April 17, 2010, 11:34 PM
Most useless things in SD:

1. I-pod /walkman/ earphones

2. Looking down at the ground

3. Believing their is such a thing as paranoia ;)

mygunsbigger
April 18, 2010, 07:40 AM
I dont even keep my shotgun loaded because the sound of me racking it will be enough to scare any invader off...

i can't even understand this mentality. you just turned a tool perfectly designed for home defense into a noisy club.

MyGunsBigger

Kmar40
April 18, 2010, 04:18 PM
Shotguns and rifles with crossbolt safeties aren't considered safe enough to be kept loaded. That's what the manufacturers say and, as far as I know, that's what every law enforcement agency teaches it's folks. Keep the chamber empty until the threat level rises.

It's the policy of my agency and that's how I will continue to teach my folks.
It's also the way I keep my longarms at home.

I've been there and done that. I'm not worried about what some internet loudmouths experts/Counter Strike warriors think. I haven't had anyone take my club from me yet.

Jedburgh
April 18, 2010, 06:07 PM
Kmar,

What's the deal with cross-bolt safeties? I've never heard that. Do the weapons just spontaneously go off or what? This isn't a critique, I'm seeking knowledge.

DOL

Kmar40
April 18, 2010, 08:03 PM
Primarily, it's that the safety can fail fairly easily and either drop the hammer or otherwise go off. And generally the long guns don't have redundant safeties like a handgun designed for loaded carry does. It also is not fail safe, like say a transfer bar is.

Is a misfire rare? Absolutely? Likely? Not at all. Do I trust the safety alone, nope. Am I gonna lose sleep if you do? Nope, but I was responding to the post that said he couldn't even understand that type of thinking.

I would also add that I don't want to be trying to find the safety (or action release bar) in the middle of the night. Those are fine motor skills. I've probably been in enough situations that I'll be fine, but some people wouldn't. Racking the slide is a gross motor skill and I'm sure that anyone can do that.

So I leave my long arms at what LEOs call "cruiser ready" or "hot standby", tube loaded, safety off, and hammer forward on an empty chamber (so I don't have to remember if I 'm carrying a Remington or Mossberg and find the slide release).

It also gives me a bit more added safety with the small kids. They are locked up, but I fear I might forget to shut the safe some time. They could manipulate the safety and the trigger, but I doubt the small ones could rack a round.

Anyway, just my .02. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

celtgun
April 18, 2010, 09:02 PM
Ankle Holsters
Cheap, unreliable guns, magazines and holsters.
Not proofing ammo and magizines.
Failing to drill and practice, practice, practice.

The Guru, Jeff Cooper, suggested keeping your unloaded weapon available while watching TV and snap shooting (dry fire) at every O that came on the screen. And if you shoot your TV it may bring your family closer together.
My addition to this drill is to not do it in front of the kids.

Pray and Shoot Daily.
Lee Jones(Celtgun)

Chance favors the prepared mind.

sdj
April 20, 2010, 09:53 PM
1. ego
2. pride
3. honor


I'm inclined to agree.

I'd add this one, too:

Thinking that a 10 minute trip the store is going to turn into a life changing event.

Good thread; lots of insights.

cracked91
April 20, 2010, 11:34 PM
Ill agree that ankle holsters are a PITA, but sometimes the only option. And loads better than keeping it at home.

As far as most useless things:

Ill have to say the round you never chambered

The gun that fell between your seat and your center console.

ausher
April 23, 2010, 08:53 PM
3. Playing computer games when you could be out shooting

May God bless,
Dwight
hey that's how i get all my gun training! playing call of duty modern warfare 2:p

LordTio3
April 29, 2010, 10:48 AM
#1. The gun you left at home because you bought one that was too big/heavy/bulky to carry comfortably.


#2. The way you assume the encounter will unfold.


#3. That texting conversation that were completely lost in with 0 situational awareness.


-Sidenote, I lived in a college town for a while. One week last year at that University, over the course of 3 days, there were 7 vehicular impacts with pedestrians. In every single one of the situations the pedestrian or the driver or both were texting and not paying attention to what was going on. What was worse; these incidents were kicked off with the first one on a Monday. A freshman texting on his phone wandered out into the street without looking. The driver was texting on his phone and was driving 10 MPH too fast for the zone. Granted, the kid should never have been in the road, but they certainly didn't say that at his funeral. Dead on impact. He ended up 60 feet down the hill.

The University could literally make Billions from writing tickets for jaywalking around there. Bike riders and walkers abide no rules whatsoever when it comes to roads. Watch out for YOURSELF. Get off of your cellphone while you are moving. If you must, make sure you are safe, stop, then operate.

~LT

skinsman
April 29, 2010, 02:20 PM
1) panic

2)an unchamber weapon

3) Stop shooting before your empty!!!

Pbearperry
April 29, 2010, 02:40 PM
The most useless things used for self defense are the restraining order and the gun free zone posters.

tshadow6
April 30, 2010, 08:14 PM
How about this: "I keep my gun in the car.'

Matt19
April 30, 2010, 09:43 PM
Pbear, that is so true.

Stevie-Ray
May 1, 2010, 12:09 PM
The most useless things used for self defense are the restraining order and the gun free zone posters. Thread winner!

trlrnr
May 6, 2010, 07:45 PM
STEVIE-RAY I just posted a link in (tac&train) to a story from yesterday here in Maine where a Nursing student was attacked and stabbed. had a restraining order on the guy. --- The Great thing about this story is that the victim lived and the BG was disarmed and pinned down by several other female students who where in there early twenties and teens.

Haifisch
May 6, 2010, 08:53 PM
A Jam-O-Matic CZ pistol. Dont trust your life with a CZ.

Kmar40
May 7, 2010, 02:15 PM
Hmmmm.... I've always found the CZ75 and family to be one of the most reliable pistols.

Ifishsum
May 7, 2010, 03:01 PM
Ego

An empty chamber

A CCW badge :D

jon_in_wv
May 7, 2010, 04:43 PM
The "possum" tactic.

B. Lahey
May 7, 2010, 10:12 PM
The "possum" tactic

Hey, don't underestimate the deterrent power of releasing heinous odors. Just ask Wildalaska.:D

MTT TL
May 8, 2010, 07:40 AM
Most Useless Things in Self Defense- Monday morning QB of the dead guy. Sure you might learn something from it but it is too late for the dead guy.

Lack of initiative. Of course too much might get you killed too.

Bones
May 8, 2010, 09:10 PM
Empty brass in your pocket, not on the floor with your empty speed loader...:mad:

jon_in_wv
May 9, 2010, 02:50 PM
Hey, don't underestimate the deterrent power of releasing heinous odors. Just ask Wildalaska.

I'm not a biologist but wouldn't that be a skunk? I'm referring to the tactic of playing dead, like an opossum.

B. Lahey
May 9, 2010, 03:13 PM
I'm not a biologist but wouldn't that be a skunk? I'm referring to the tactic of playing dead, like an opossum.


You should go kick a possum before using that phrase again, and see what happens. Be sure to breathe deeply, it's one of the worst smells on earth. They release the stank to make the "playing dead" more realistic.:)

Pheeeeeeew!

animal
May 9, 2010, 03:55 PM
Well they stink all right, but nothin' like a skunk ... or Wildalaska:D

Firepower!
May 9, 2010, 03:56 PM
Here is my list:
*Practice that you think is useful when playing computer game.
*The make of your gun
*The caliber of your gun
*The percentage of popularity of your gun in web polls :)
*3.5lbs connector, trigger adjuster, porting, compensating, threaded barrel....etc.
*titanium sights

jon_in_wv
May 9, 2010, 07:29 PM
You should go kick a possum before using that phrase again, and see what happens. Be sure to breathe deeply, it's one of the worst smells on earth. They release the stank to make the "playing dead" more realistic.

See, I told you I wasn't a biologist. I had no idea they did that.

animal
May 10, 2010, 12:14 AM
Most of an opossum’s odor comes from a diet of carrion. They’ll urinate or defecate sometimes when they are scared. Maybe that’s what the guy was talking about? They have musk glands but their musk is no worse than any other wild animal, imo.

The people that like to eat ‘em usually like to catch them, pen them up for a couple of weeks, and feed them corn and vegetable scraps …. to "clean them out". They don’t smell that bad and after that, and taste a lot better.
I’m not a biologist either, but I’ve caught quite a few of them (almost always give them away… (not really my choice of meat, and too much trouble for it). Common method of capture is to chase them down and kick them or hit them with a broom handle. It usually takes more than one hit to get it to play dead. Then you pick it up by the tail. They "come to" then, but can’t get to you because the tail is too weak to for them to pull themselves up by it. Then, drop ‘em in a burlap bag or cage… easy. ;)



Oh yeah, the OP question …

any emotion
any distraction
anything in your sights besides BG’s center of mass

Piffin
May 17, 2010, 04:05 AM
A mind that is empty or dull

A gun that is empty or elsewhere

A reliance on others, or the 'system' to defend you

On that last, as I read this thread, the discussion of paranoia that led to fire drills and codes where Eskimo thought that fire drills are not important...He thought that a house built to code means no need for the drill. That reliance on a code to save him shows the same kind of thinking as relying on 911 and a presumable near-by officer to save him, or relying on the Social Security sytsem to provide for his retirement.

Besides, I am a builder and know that codes do NOT require an egress window/opening in every room, only the ones where people sleep. Most code provisions are to add a level of safety to the fireman who might enter that dwelling trying to save your sleeping butt and belongings, not to prevent the fire from happening. That is the job of the resident.