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The Tourist
March 3, 2010, 07:22 PM
An item of interest came up in another thread that begs a question.

How many TFL members here have an expensive firearm (like a top of the line Colt 1911, perhaps customized) a box of the latest and greatest hollowpoints, like Golden Sabers--but no alarm system?

And what does it say about a guy who'd rather shoot it out in his own bedroom than get a free quote from an alarm company?

Be honest, and tell us why you made your decision.

DiscoRacing
March 3, 2010, 07:25 PM
expensive firearm

*not sure if my D E is one of those...
if it is... i dont have an alarm system... but when its on the nightstand next to the bed... which is always.... its also fully loaded.... always:D

The Tourist
March 3, 2010, 07:33 PM
You didn't answer the complete question.

I believe you when you tell me you did what you did, but obviously you know that both firearms and alarms exist.

At some point in time you had neither, and made the decision you posted. What were your thoughts at that time?

MarineCorpsAT
March 3, 2010, 07:35 PM
Not that I would rather shoot it out in my bedroom but I do have to make choices on what we spend the money we have on. I have 3 dogs the smallest being 54 pounds and the biggest being 80 pounds so I do not see a need to have an alarm as I already feed 3 alarms.

As for choosing to shoot it out in my bedroom... I do not make that choice the person that has entered my house illegally and managed to get past my dogs made that choice.

An alarm does not guarantee that you will get help quickly enough. I had a drunk try to get in my house one night and with me covering the door and my wife on the phone with the cops it took 5 minutes for them to arrive. This was them having the knowledge that I was armed and if this person managed to get in the house he would be shot. That is a very good response time, but it might as well been an hour as we waited for them to get there.

So alarms are not the ultimate answer to the problem and I find it somewhat off putting that the op would take an attitude that because we choose not to have an alarm that we are lookng for that armed confrontation. That is not the case for most of us.

podrav
March 3, 2010, 08:00 PM
How many TFL members here have an expensive firearm ... a box of the latest and greatest hollowpoints, ... --but no alarm system?
A mid range 9mm with FMJ or cheap HP, but no electronic alarm system.

I don't see the advantages of a paid alarm system as that valuable
- Police won't respond quicker, than if' I'm home and dialed 911
- Can be defeated by a smart burgler
- I don't have expensive jewlery etc

I can understand how the BG might not stick around as long if I was not home, and they heard the alarm. If I were to invest, it would likely be a camera system to gather evidence and help catch the BG.

Net, a gun is for protecting me instead of my objects. I admit I've never had my home robbed/invaded so my attitude might change with experience :mad:

saands
March 3, 2010, 08:16 PM
MarineCorpsAT +1 ...

Those are my thoughts precisely ... including the admonition that it makes no sense to conclude that, just because someone is unwilling to be a passive victim, he is looking for a fight. That is just NOT the case.

My 1911 is a Springfield and it is stock ... so maybe I am not the demographic you seek. Anyway, even though I do have a simple alarm system installed, I KNOW that anything that goes down at home will happen long before a uniformed response could be expected to arrive. There is always a chance that there'll be a patrol 100 yds away, but I pretty much figure that the 5 minute wait that was just mentioned is about all we can reasonably expect from our friends in blue ... and in some places this may be VERY optimistic. The courts have made it perfectly clear that it is NOT the duty or responsibility of the LEOs to protect any individual ... they do have the responsibility to investigate. I believe that the LEOs do their best to keep us safe, but in spite of what anyone may want to believe, if your local LEOs are busy with something else, they don't have to drop what they are doing because you called. My safety and security is ultimately MY responsibility ... and yours is yours ... any help we get is a bonus.

Saands

KLRANGL
March 3, 2010, 08:37 PM
Tourist, we certainly see eye to eye in the (non)willingness to be in a shootout.

I also don't beleive that an alarm should be the highest priority in terms of self defense, but I certainly see the advantages to having one. Every defense should be layered, and an alarm is just one more tool that could and should be added based on circumstance. I also see a firearm as being the first thing you should buy, but used as a last line of defense.

As for me, I own two high end HK handguns, but have no alarm system. I do also have three college roommates...
Well actually no, we did have an "alarm" system. Basically those magnetic circuit alarms that buzz really loudly when the door would open. I was upset when the one night the wind blew the door open, I slept through the alarm (I'm usually a veeery light sleeper).
Again, to summarize. Layered defense = good. Alarms are not mandatory for a layered defense...

And I dont find the OP to be off putting at all
:confused:

The Tourist
March 3, 2010, 08:39 PM
We also know that a layered system offers the best chance for survival, and yes, "layered" does not dictate an alarm. (Upgrading doors and windows is often an option). But being prepared with a crossbow always trumps being startled out of your sleep with the hood standing over you--and the pistol in the nightstand.

Don't feel too bad, guys. The same exact mindset is not only among firearms enthusiasts. I know dozens of guys who put thousands of dollars into an engine and not a nickel into brakes.

Our lives do change over time, and someday most of us will be responsible for the safety and security of a family. At that moment, even a cheapo motion sensor seems like a pretty good idea.

I would just like to have this idea thought about and considered.

saands
March 3, 2010, 09:00 PM
The Tourist has been quite critical about scenarios in other posts ... his preference for dressing down admittedly stupid actions has been made. I will take his lead and offer my critique of his (potentially carelessly written) and very leading question.

And what does it say about a guy who'd rather shoot it out in his own bedroom than get a free quote from an alarm company?


Maybe off-putting is the wrong term, but this is pretty much saying that you have two only choices: get a quote from an alarm company or shoot it out in your bedroom.

Logically, this is pretty much like saying "what does it say about a guy who would rather eat tangerines than get a job" ... there is a implied assumption that these are two dependent options and the fact is that they are independent. Eating tangerines and working have almost nothing to do with each other. If you don't choose one, you are not necessarily choosing the other. I find that logic to be utterly flawed ... I could easily have a $50,000 alarm system AND have a psychotic desire to shoot it out in my bedroom (but more prepared thanks to my alarm) ... just like I could have any other of the 4 possible permutations: Alarm with shootout, alarm without shootout, no alarm with shootout, and no alarm without shootout ...

Now that I finish this post, I will reaffirm that off-putting is exactly the right word ... that the OP says that my having a gun and not having an alarm equates to me wanting to shoot it out in my bedroom puts me off ...

Saands

The Tourist
March 3, 2010, 09:08 PM
Your comment about "scenarios" is spot on.

For over a week there has been a shrill and steady cry that "if a guy comes into my house, I'm going to put him down." We are very quick to tell everyone about our new pistols and our hollowpoints, but never about upgrading doors, or an alarm or new motion sensor lights.

And I'm not even sure many of us would actually squeeze the trigger, we just like talking about it. And I've seen it before.

I have actually seen more fancy-schmancy polished 1911 grips here than any form of layered safety. So, are you guys hiding your alarm systems, or just paying lip service to the idea?

KLRANGL
March 3, 2010, 10:05 PM
saands, I beleive you are focusing on the wrong part of his OP. You could certainly take it as off-putting, but with the limitation of text based communication, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it was meant merely as an example.
I think a civil debate on the usefulness of a layered system, how a system can be developed, and the types of mentality involved would be better than taking things personally and arguing semantics...

scorpion_tyr
March 3, 2010, 10:20 PM
I have a dog. He's a pretty good alarm.

cracked91
March 3, 2010, 10:32 PM
Ruger P95DC that I got used for 250 as primary defense.

I am not allowed dogs in my apartment, though that would be secondary.

I know enough about house wiring So I did a kind of alarm system myself

I wired 4 "cheapo" laser motion sensors blocking the front entrance (door and sliding glass door to patio) They start at 6 inches high and go up every 2 feet, and they are battery powered with a small display light, so they can't be disconnected or defeated, unless someone kicked in the neighbors wall and cut the wires going to the actual speaker box in my bedroom, or was a ninja that could get in one of the 2 foot gaps between the lasers(many friends have tried and failed while I laughed)

I reinforced the door frame going into the bedroom from my living room, A few deadbolts and a 2x4 block setup.

I put bars on the small window in my room, and one more motion sensor in the window.

My apartment is small. I keep my cell in my room. But unless the chinese army is storming my apartment complex, I won't bunker down in my room if my front alarm goes off. I have valuables that the police can hardly ever recover if stolen. I have pretty much accepted the reality that if someone is bent on forcing their way into my place, Im going to be the one to deal with them.

Mike Irwin
March 3, 2010, 10:32 PM
I, too, have a very large (105 pounds), very loud dog who is exceptionally intimidating when he wants to be.

Shane Tuttle
March 3, 2010, 10:42 PM
I don't really see a judgement of responsibility by owning an alarm system if one owns and expensive firearm.

People have valid reasons for not owning an alarm system. Admittingly, I'm one of those that don't have a big ugly ADT or Brinks sign stuck in my yard garnering attention to would-be criminals.

KLRANGL
March 3, 2010, 10:44 PM
Cracked91, do you have renters insurance to cover stolen goods? Its cheap...

Brilliant homemade alarm though. I like the ingenuity.

saands
March 4, 2010, 12:38 AM
KLRANGL: I'm not taking it personally ... personally, it doesn't apply to me as I DO have an alarm system. On the contrary ... I'm taking it collectively. As written, the OP paints owners of (expensive) handguns in a negative light if they haven't gotten a quote from an alarm company. Do you think that it is just semantics when the news makes it sound like a crime that someone had "hundreds of rounds of deadly ammunition in their basement?" Maybe it is just semantics to you, but to me it sounds too close to the same old rhetoric that endangers the RTKBA ... and therein lies my complaint.

I think that it is a GREAT idea to have a civil discussion on the merits (and there are MANY) of a layered security system. IMHO layered systems are the only ones that have a chance of functioning under any real stress. But it seems as though one would start that discussion by asking what people thought the merits were ... or offering an explanation of the merits. I'm always interested in hearing about the creative ways people accomplish things ...

Saands

JustDreadful
March 4, 2010, 02:29 AM
I have actually seen more fancy-schmancy polished 1911 grips here than any form of layered safety.

Maybe because this isn't a site dedicated to deadbolts and motion lights.

I agree with saands. This thread was meant to pick a fight.

old bear
March 4, 2010, 08:25 AM
Having been in two shootings, I never want to be in one again, especially at my age and bring retired. Yet I don’t have a home alarm system and have no desire to have one. An alarm is just one more thing to have to remember to deal with, and I have enough problems remembering where I left my car keys.
I do though live in what is considered a nice area of a low crime rate college town, so home invasions are not high on my radar. I do have 15 pounds of alarm/attack cat who lets us know when anyone comes to the front porch or back deck. Yes, out of force of habit I have at least one loaded revolver on each of the three levels of the house, but not in every room. I do have a phone in every room of the house, and we do have an intruder plan. If both us are home the wife dials 911 I grab .357 and start to get between my wife and whatever. Home alone dial 911 grab. 38 depending on where noise is coming from wife will retreat to front entrance area to wait for help or if necessary to exit home. If it’s just me dial 911 grab .357 and carefully determine source of noise. May not be perfect but at least it’s a start.

I do have upgraded locks on all doors and have "pined all the windows.

earlthegoat2
March 4, 2010, 08:40 AM
I think the overwhelming lack of alarm systems has to do with the old adage of "When seconds count, the police are minutes away." An alarm system is dandy but the police are still minutes away after it sounds. If it is a noisy alarm then that may scare off the intruders. MAY.

I dont have an alarm system either but I do have good stout doors without windows. My house windows are higher off the ground then normal. I have deadbolts and floor bolts. I have a noisy paranoid pooch. I feel secure at night and during the day in my house. If something happens otherwise then I will act then. Until then I have firearms on me at all times and situated around the joint.

AcridSaint
March 4, 2010, 09:04 AM
My lab is my early warning system. The guns that I own are not "expensive", but even if they were, they would not simply be night stand guns. They are carry guns, they are range guns and they are a hobby and interest as well as a tool.

I don't have an alarm system mainly because I used to know an alarm installer who told me all the stories about how they'd dial in and set off people's alarms just to get service calls. He told me the main benefit to an alarm is the sound and that if you have one, you might as well just unhook it from the phone. Maybe a bit extreme, but it's an interesting perspective. I feel that the presence of a dog is a far greater deterrent than an alarm system, no one wants to get tangled up with a dog and he allows me enough time to get the phone and a gun ready.

Lattitudes
March 4, 2010, 09:21 AM
And what does it say about a guy who'd rather shoot it out in his own bedroom than get a free quote from an alarm company?

I'm at a loss to words really. Im Libra but that doesn't answer the question. "Instant Response" really comes to mind. :rolleyes:

pax
March 4, 2010, 09:31 AM
Closed.

pax