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View Full Version : Reporter gets shot with full power 357 magnum round 1 foot away with new clothing


JohnH1963
February 3, 2010, 10:58 AM
This was a great video demonstrating the ability of new bulletproof clothing. Towards the end of the video, the reporter gets shot with a 357 Magnum round and does not even have a mark on his skin. I did not see any hard plates in the jacket he was wearing. The reporter did not even flinch or say a word in pain. They showed his skin afterword and I did not see so much as a mark.

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/02/02/vbs.tv.bulletproof.tailor.vbstv

Brian Pfleuger
February 3, 2010, 11:13 AM
Impressive.

I don't necessarily see any proof that it's a "full power 357magnum" but, regardless, light weight, flexible and stylish protection at point blank range is impressive.

I can imagine a time when self defense training will forgo body shots altogether because bullet-proof clothing is too common to take the chance.

C Philip
February 3, 2010, 11:50 AM
I can imagine a time when self defense training will forgo body shots altogether because bullet-proof clothing is too common to take the chance.Or more likely at that time gun makers and ammo companies will make defensive weapons able to pierce the armor more available to customers.

KLRANGL
February 3, 2010, 11:56 AM
hahaha "the hip-hop people may be a big market"
I thought that was kinda funny...

As the pros go up, and the cons go down, I can see more people wanting to start buying stuff like this. I mean, who wouldn't want something that is just like anything else they would wear, but can (potentially) stop bullets?
But at the same time, I always thought bullet proof vests were a bit excessive for daily use, but this might change things...

rodwhaincamo
February 3, 2010, 11:57 AM
Very impressive indeed! And starting at a very reasonable price! But I'd have to say that was no full power 357 load. I didn't see any porting and there certainly wasn't enough muzzle flip. Steven Segaul (spl?) certainly is a big guy!

Brian Pfleuger
February 3, 2010, 12:00 PM
ammo companies will make defensive weapons able to pierce the armor more available to customers.

Which the Powers That Be will immediately make illegal for the regular person, meaning that they'll only be available to gang members and other thugs, meaning that there will be no point in the regular person wearing this stuff because the BGs will all be shooting armor piercing bullets and the GGs will all have to make head shots because the BGs will all be wearing armor, but only when they rob the GGs because the other homies shooting at them will all be using the armor piercing rounds that the GGs can't get.....;):D

Skans
February 3, 2010, 12:28 PM
But I'd have to say that was no full power 357 load.

That was the power of maybe a 38 special, not .357 magnum.

This raises a good question. Are there any handgun cartridges (other than the 5-7) with pointed bullets? Has anyone ever attempted to make a 357 handgun round using a solid, pointed bullet....or anything similar. Would such a round have better penetration with regard to bullet proof clothing?

SigP6Carry
February 3, 2010, 12:30 PM
I actually disliked the reporter's demeanor and rhetoric. He rather made light about it, made some odd comments that seemed rather "anti-gun" and failed to recognize people's right to defense.

At one point I believe he said "anybody who thinks it's likely that they'll get shot."

Balog
February 3, 2010, 12:45 PM
I recall reading about solid copper, very pointed projectiles designed to defeat armour being made in 9mm and .357, but that was years ago.

Skans
February 3, 2010, 01:49 PM
I actually disliked the reporter's demeanor and rhetoric. He rather made light about it, made some odd comments that seemed rather "anti-gun" and failed to recognize people's right to defense.

I agree - he was kind of jerky. Also, it took way too long to get to the demonstration - lame reporting. On the other hand, I liked the way that the proprietor of the clothing line handled himself. Nice store, interesting designs. Obviously this guy takes his business seriously and seems to be quite successful at it.

JohnH1963
February 3, 2010, 04:33 PM
I dont see a point in laws that make body armor illegal. The bad guys will drive to other states or find someway to get their hands on it. The fact is that most bad guys do not use body armor. When was the last time you read about a criminal wearing body armor? There are people out there with legitimate reasons to wear body armor such as jewelers, wealthy individuals, employees of stores that are at high risk for robbery, etc.

I would support say an individual having to get a permit to buy body armor who has demonstrated a need for it such as a convenience store owner. However, outlawing it just endangers the public more then it protects it.

Balog
February 3, 2010, 10:40 PM
Really? Should I need to prove my need and buy a permit before I can buy a gun? :rolleyes:

bignz
February 3, 2010, 11:02 PM
I enjoyed this video and appreciate the reporting. Obviously not a gun guy, but he was willing to get shot for the story! And he was clearly nervous about it.

It was always my impression that although bullet-proof clothing could prevent penetration, it would be an incredibly painful experience nonetheless. I guess I was mistaken in this...

StiveC2007
February 3, 2010, 11:07 PM
if you watch it you can see where the extra padding and weaving it. all it is is those second chance vests that some police departments have and they are sewn into clothing so its not anything new. Also the gun being shot can't be a full 357 load has to be a .38. also the bigger the clothing is the more bullet resistant it is.

bcrash15
February 3, 2010, 11:31 PM
I saw that video somewhere with a written caption that said it was a .38. Also, you can see in the video it is a cast bullet. Regardless, the vest performs pretty respectably.

StiveC2007
February 4, 2010, 12:05 AM
the vest performed like it was supposed to I wouldn't say that its amazing. maybe im just a cynical person but im not impressed, now if he shot him with a .223 rem round my jaw would be on the floor and i'd be calling that man a dam genius. go onto youtube do a search, theres clips of a guy shooting himself with a revolver while wearing a vest, hes older guy with glasses big guy cant remeber his name but hes pretty well known in the bullet resistant industry

Rich Miranda
February 4, 2010, 12:37 AM
The version of the video that I saw indicates it was .38, not a .357. And, for liability reasons (and self-preservation - what if it didn't work?!), it was probably a wimpy load. Still very impressive.

dstyle47
February 4, 2010, 12:56 AM
i was in the category of people very impressed. I too, thought that although bullet penetration could be stopped, it would be an extremely painful and bruising process. wow.

omkhan
February 4, 2010, 02:22 AM
This is some really amazing stuff. Regarding the power, the bullet seemed to be deformed pretty well. I wonder how many of us could volunteer for such a demonstration? :)

XD Gunner
February 4, 2010, 02:32 AM
Had to be a .38, that thing had almost no recoil. Probably a light loaded .38 at that.

BillCA
February 4, 2010, 03:39 AM
It was likely a standard pressure .38 Special load. A 9mm might have been more impressive, but it would probably have injured the reporter more.

Impressed or not, you have to admit that he's done a pretty good job of integrating bullet resistant materials with "regular" clothing. A denim jacket with panels inside it would be great in some areas of the country. Leather jackets and car-coats look nice and could offer good protection. Heck, a medium weight canvas-duck jacket is a go-everywhere item and could save your life. For a few hundred bucks, why not?

Now, before someone makes the comment that it won't stop a .357/10mm/.44 Mag, ask yourself if you'd pay for something that would save your life is someone shot you, even if they shot you two or three times. A no brainer. If it'll stop up to a 9mm/.40/.45 you've covered most of the bad-boy crime guns.

Even if it doesn't completely stop a .357, it'll slow it down enough that your odds of survival are much higher.

BillCA
February 4, 2010, 03:54 AM
I would support say an individual having to get a permit to buy body armor who has demonstrated a need for it such as a convenience store owner. However, outlawing it just endangers the public more then it protects it.
I disagree.

I believe body armor falls under the category of "arms" WRT the 2nd Amendment. Helmets, breast-plates, chain mail (ancient body armor) and such were all part of "arms" in the 1700s. There is no reason for people to be forced into obtaining a permit first.

BillCA
February 4, 2010, 03:55 AM
Which the Powers That Be will immediately make illegal for the regular person, meaning that they'll only be available to gang members and other thugs, meaning that there will be no point in the regular person wearing this stuff because the BGs will all be shooting armor piercing bullets and the GGs will all have to make head shots because the BGs will all be wearing armor, but only when they rob the GGs because the other homies shooting at them will all be using the armor piercing rounds that the GGs can't get.

Peetza gets the Jim Fix run-on-sentence-of-the-month award! :D

jughead2
February 4, 2010, 06:28 AM
assuming the film wasnt doctored the round had enough power to deform the bullet pretty good. i have shot wad cutters into solid red clay that didnt deform that bad. with normal clothes one would be in for a world of hurt with that round

Double Naught Spy
February 4, 2010, 11:27 AM
Yeah, something isn't right with the demonstration.

Brian Pfleuger
February 4, 2010, 11:44 AM
Peetza gets the Jim Fix run-on-sentence-of-the-month award!

Wow! I was going for ridiculous but I wasn't expecting an award! I'd like to thank my parents, and my high school English teacher and.....well, all of you, I just couldn't have done it without all of you!:D;)

Mr. James
February 4, 2010, 12:47 PM
Jim Fix run-on-sentence-of-the-month award

Now, that's funny right there!

Congratulations, peetzakilla! :D

Venom1956
February 4, 2010, 01:04 PM
Interesting. I'd say .38 before .357 but I really give him credit for doing it. I was impressed that all his employees take a hit. that woman was pretty cute!:D

armoredman
February 4, 2010, 01:12 PM
Couldn't get the video to load. After watching Rich Davis shoot himself in the chest with a full power handgun, (think it was a Ruger Redhawk .44 mag) into his own Second Chance vest, no, from what people have posted, this probably wouldn't impress me much. You can find that video in the old movie, "Deadly Weapons."

Daugherty16
February 4, 2010, 01:49 PM
i too thought from the recoil and minimal flame that it was a light .38. Nevertheless, the bullet indeed impacted something hard enough to mushroom and the man was not only unscathed, he appeared unmarked. His face was certainly red, and he was visibly shaken, so i didn't sense anything contrived about that vid.

Perhaps the drape of the coat gave extra absorption to the kevlar panels, as they had the additional room to "give" back to the man's skin from where they were at the time of the shot. That allows the force to be spread over a larger area, and so on.

Impressive.

SigP6Carry
February 4, 2010, 08:45 PM
.36 S&W short maybe? Nah, I kid.

I have to say, though: I believe that body armor should be available to any and all citizens of the united states. I don't see why it should be limited. Expensive, yes... limited, no. But if it's expensive, then classist motives could be called. In anycase, there shouldn't be any hurdles to purchasing body armor other than the price.

grumpycoconut
February 6, 2010, 02:40 AM
I wore armor of various weights for over a decade and got to shoot a fair bit of it too. The last concealable vest I wore was a level II that was almost as light and flexible as a lightly quilted flannel jacket. Ballistic materials are awesome and in the process of getting awesomer. Just wait until spider silk armor becomes economically viable. T-shirt thin armor that can stop most any handgun bullet is not that far away.

By the way, level II will stop all non armor piercing pistol bullets up to .44 mag at 1400 fps. Most heavy tactical armor is rated level IIIA or III and won't stop rifle rounds without hard plates.

What most people don't understand is that effective man shooting pistol bullets (hollow points) regardless of speed are easier for armor to defeat than solids. Since the structure of a hollow point is designed to collapse, the collapse upon impact with bullet stopping material actually aids in dispersing the bullet's energy.

Defeating armor is actually really easy in theory. Just push the bullet fast enough or make it hard and pointy. For example take a look at the .30 Carbine. It shoots a dumpy little 110 grain round nose copper clad lead ball at a speed that is flat out anemic for any respectable long gun, but at 1900 fps it will punch right through even level III armor that isn't backed by a hard plate. For a hard and pointy example look at the lowly icepick at human propelled speeds. The skinny point slides between the armor strands rather than trying to break through the fabric.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the demonstration. It merely showed modern soft armor defeating a threat that was within it's design envelope.

N.H. Yankee
February 6, 2010, 07:39 AM
Sure hope they have better Q/C than some of the gun companies, one things for sure they won't have too many customer complaints if it isn't. :D

BillCA
February 6, 2010, 08:01 PM
Grumpy,

I keep a small supply of the Fiocchi 142 TC .357 ammo on hand. I don't know that it'll defeat body armor, but I'm positive that whoever is on the other side of it will take a beating.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/BillCA/Hobby/Ammo/Fiocchi_142grTC.jpg

Last advertised by Fiocchi at 1350 fps.

bangbangshootshoot
February 6, 2010, 08:49 PM
"I shoot all my employees."
How's that for standing behind your employer's product?
Love it.

KCabbage
February 10, 2010, 04:16 PM
Great thread John, thanks :)

Some of my favorite quotes:

I shoot all my employees....

Okay my friend, i'm gonna' shoot you.....


There was one more but, I can't remember.


P.S. - Might wanna remove the "full power .357 Magnum" from the title. I think we all know that was a mild .38 load.

KAK
February 11, 2010, 12:02 AM
Yeah thats ridiculous. I find the whole thing to be stupid. Why would you let anyone shoot you with anything even if you had armor?

Double Naught Spy
February 11, 2010, 10:05 AM
It shoots a dumpy little 110 grain round nose copper clad lead ball at a speed that is flat out anemic for any respectable long gun, but at 1900 fps it will punch right through even level III armor that isn't backed by a hard plate.

Level III armor is hard armor. I believe you mean Level IIIa.

grubbylabs
February 11, 2010, 03:30 PM
Does any one know for sure how modern 300+fps arrows with razor sharp broad heads would do against body armor. I was under the impression that unless there is a hard plate a knife like utensil can penetrate it. If it can then peetzakilla you only need to buy a new speed bow and some good broad heads to defeat the bad guys in their new fashion armor.

KevinBeyerJr
February 11, 2010, 03:57 PM
I am the type of guy that probably spends as much time reading links or referencing terms or items that people refer to, as reading posts.

grumpycoconut:
Just wait until spider silk armor becomes economically viable. T-shirt thin armor that can stop most any handgun bullet is not that far away.

I actually looked into that, and am with you on believing that that will be a heck of a breakthrough. Lightweight, and very easy to produce (easier than plastic, as they claim).

ScottRiqui
February 11, 2010, 04:13 PM
Just wait until spider silk armor becomes economically viable. T-shirt thin armor that can stop most any handgun bullet is not that far away.

I can see how even a very thin layer of the right material would keep the bullet from penetrating the material itself, but if it's that thin & light, what's going to keep the bullet from just pushing the material into your body?

As an example, even with a regular cotton t-shirt, I could drive a very dull tent stake into your chest, breaking the skin, breaking your ribs and crushing/penetrating your heart, all without actually penetrating the t-shirt itself.

I think there's a certain minimum amount of stiffness and/or mass required for effective body armor, no matter how puncture-resistant the material itself is.

KevinBeyerJr
February 11, 2010, 04:27 PM
ScottRiqui:
As an example, even with a regular cotton t-shirt, I could drive a very dull tent stake into your chest, breaking the skin, breaking your ribs and crushing/penetrating your heart, all without actually penetrating the t-shirt itself.

Seen too many vampire movies lately?:confused::D

ScottRiqui
February 11, 2010, 04:46 PM
Yep - I knew it was an awkward example even when I was writing it. My point was just that a t-shirt thin layer of anything won't keep the bullet from breaking the skin, penetrating your body and doing significant damage, unless the material is also extremely stiff in order to spread the force over a large area. (Think of a conquistador-style breastplate made of carbon-fiber instead of metal.)

raftman
February 11, 2010, 10:56 PM
Seen too many vampire movies lately?

Silly example, but I can see his point... in a way. Thinking about getting punched in the gut or something like that. It can hurt a lot, you may get bruised, but if you're wearing a t-shirt, odds are the t-shirt will be left completely undamaged.

Balog
February 12, 2010, 07:16 PM
Non-Newtonian fluids provide an intriguing possibility of a solution.

dec41971
February 13, 2010, 02:47 AM
Who needs this when we have Blackberrys and iPhones that will do the job? Just place one in your shot over the heart, any other place shot will rub right out! :D

misnomerga
February 17, 2010, 03:01 PM
Some of these posts remind me of the great WWII movie titled "To Hell And Back" starring Audie Murphy, where the G.I. retorts to the tanker's comment of "this thing's only got three inches of armor", with "hey buddy how much armor do you think this thing's got" as he grabs his shirt. I say that because any bullet stopping power is better than none IMHO.