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Winchester_73
February 1, 2010, 10:52 PM
I'm watching pawnstars now on HIST, started at 10pm EST. A guy walked in with a 1886 Winchester. When the caption game up to describe the rifle it said:

1886 Winchester

First and most popular repeating rifle

Popular with hunters and settlers alike

Now the last line, that may not be verbatim but the rest is. I'm surprised they could have such a factual error on Pawnstars (since its mostly antiques) or the HIST channel for that matter. I also was surprised because I never really saw a major factual error regarding firearms on pawnstars before. There were a few things I disagreed with before never such a factual error. Have any of you saw such a factual error before?

bigghoss
February 1, 2010, 11:22 PM
most of the blurbs that come up on the items have no effort behind them whatsoever guns or otherwise

eastbank
February 2, 2010, 07:46 AM
the barrel hanger did not look right, i thought the barrel may have been shortened, eastbank.

Double Naught Spy
February 2, 2010, 08:16 AM
Pawnstars may be a show on the History Channel, but it is not a history show. It is an entertainment show documenting only the most unusual stories. What you see going on there does not even represent typical daily pawn shop business activities.

So don't get hung up on the little nonsense. If you watch carefully, you will notice a lot of other errors, mostly embellishments.

horseman308
February 2, 2010, 08:21 AM
Perhaps they were referring to the idea of a Winchester being the first repeating rifle, without taking into account which model Winchester (or any other manufacturer for that matter - when did the Spencer come out?).

Mike Irwin
February 2, 2010, 09:21 AM
"when did the Spencer come out?"

Before the Winchester.

Old Time Hunter
February 2, 2010, 10:03 AM
"when did the Spencer come out?"

Before the Winchester.


Actually not, the forerunner of the Henry/Winchester was the 1848 "Volition Repeating Rifle" which became the Volcanic Repeating Arms Company in 1855 (formed by Smith & Wesson actually), renamed the New Haven Arms Company in 1857 after Winchester bought it in 1856. The company name changed to "Winchester" in 1866, eighteen years after they were making repeating lever rifles AND pistols. The first "Henry" came out in 1860, but was actually designed and pattened in 1858, whereas the "Spencer" was designed in 1860 but first sold in 1862.

martin08
February 2, 2010, 10:29 AM
Later in the show, they contradicted themselves by referencing the 1866 Winchester.

So, I don't think that they meant that the 1886 was the first repeating rifle, but more that it was the first "Popular" repeating rifle.

Anyone see the 17th century Key gun? What a hoot.

rattletrap1970
February 2, 2010, 10:53 AM
I traded an octagon barrel .45-90 version of one of those away a long time ago because refinishing it would have cost more than the gun was worth AT THE TIME. Man I wish I had that thing now.

Buzzcook
February 2, 2010, 11:17 AM
The 1886 was the first repeater that could take heavier cartridges such as those that were used in the Sharps.

Mike Irwin
February 2, 2010, 01:28 PM
I don't count the Volition Arms firearms even though the drawings and designs were sold to Oliver Winchester. They were a commercial and, in large part, mechanical failure.

But, I had my dates wrong on the Henry. Poo.


"The 1886 was the first repeater that could take heavier cartridges such as those that were used in the Sharps."

Well, sort of.

The 1876 Winchester was capable of taking full-power rifle cartridges such as the .40-60, .45-75, and .50-95, matching the power of some of the popular Sharps cartridges.

But, because of the design, the action had to be kept fairly compact, resulting in short, fat, bottlenecked cartridges.

The 1886 was the first Winchester capable of taking the powerful straight cartridges like the .45-70 all the way up to the .50-110.

Winchester_73
February 2, 2010, 02:13 PM
So, I don't think that they meant that the 1886 was the first repeating rifle, but more that it was the first "Popular" repeating rifle.

When you read what I posted, there really is no other way to interpet it:

1886 Winchester

First and most popular repeating rifle

Popular with hunters and settlers alike

Now if it said this, that would be different:

Winchester Rifle

First and most popular repeating rifle

Popular with hunters and settlers alike

The 1873 model was much more popular than the 1886. The 1873 Winchester was so popular that it was actually made side by side with its replacement, the 1892, from 1892 to 1919 due to customer demand. The were approx 720,000 1873s made while there were approx 159,900 1886s made.

DPris
February 2, 2010, 10:27 PM
We tracked down that pawnshop while were in Vegas for the SHOT Show a couple weeks ago. Small place, line of curiosity-seekers like us admitted in spurts by a hefty bouncer at the front door.
I saw exactly one gun under glass, they either don't do a booming business in them or keep 'em locked up in the back room.

Denis

Mike Irwin
February 3, 2010, 12:56 AM
Please note that comments that are directed at people on the show, or the show itself, and not firearms in that particular episode, will be deleted.

Mal H
February 3, 2010, 03:25 PM
I finally got around to watching that episode (had it on Tivo).

The graphic they showed said:

1886 Winchester Rifle

* First and most popular repeating rifle
* This model produced from 1886-1935
(It didn't have the "popular with hunters ..." part)

While the first bullet taken alone following the title of the graphic is definitely incorrect. The second bullet implies they were meaning the entire Winchester Lever action line as found in its many models. So with that added, the first bullet is a little less incorrect - but not much. I think what it is is a production assistant creating a graphic who really only knows what he/she thought they heard on the show.

During the episode as Rick was talking to the seller, he explained most everything correctly stating that there had been many models, and he included the 1873 in his stated lineup.

I was also impressed that he first checked the rifle for ammo before doing anything else. He did find that it held a fired casing. He gave the customer a very stern look while saying, "and that is why we always check to see if a gun is loaded."

Winchester_73
February 3, 2010, 07:36 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. It makes more sense now. I'm glad I didn't totally misinterpret it.

Double Naught Spy
February 3, 2010, 07:42 PM
I was also impressed that he first checked the rifle for ammo before doing anything else. He did find that it held a fired casing. He gave the customer a very stern look while saying, "and that is why we always check to see if a gun is loaded."

However, in the episode with the 1845 Harpers Ferry musket, he didn't check and didn't realize that the gun was loaded. It was only have handling and passing around that the expert got to see the gun and determined that it was loaded and that it could possibly be fired. Needless to say, both Rick and the owner were surprised at the discovery.

The expert valued the rifle at $2000 and so the owner wanted $4000 for it because if it is worth $2000 now, it would be worth more later. Rick passed on the deal.